A real chemtrail discussion

Ok people, let's get down to the nitty-gritty with this one. Let's not just post some hit and run comments this time (I'm talking to you, believers), but really get down to the core of this.

As far as I can see, the basic claim of chemtrail believers is that contrails can't persist, because of reasons. Therefore, any trail that does persist is a chemtrail/geoengineering. Correct me if I'm wrong here

The scientific/meteorological stance is that contrail formation and persistence is to be expected, as contrails are just a form of cirrus cloud, and therefore can persist like any other cirrus cloud.

So let's resolve this for once and for all.

I want to know exactly WHAT is wrong with the current scientific explanation. I've perused the internet to try and find an explanation of WHY contrails allegedly can't persist, but I can't seem to find it. It's being stated as if it's a fact by chemtrail believers, but no explanatio is ever given. So those of you who believe contrails can't persist, please be so kind and explain yourselves.

Also, apparently we need a new meteorological theory to replace the current one. I suggest you post it here, so we can all learn how things really work.

Good luck, and again: let's get to the bottom of this. I'm open to any good explanation, and willing to change my stance if something credible comes to the surface.

a reply to: payt69

Unfortunately, the best you'll get is some YouTube video saying that "contrails can't persist! If they can, why doesn't my breath or a car exhaust persist?"

That's the closest I've ever got to an explantation from the believers.

There is never any real science involved either. It's always ground samples or a bucket with a lid left off for a week.

This whole "conspiracy" relies on a few things though.

1, Operation Popeye and the "they've done it once, why wouldn't they do it again" thing,

2, The lack of understanding in science so when someone (like Dane) "explains" chemtrails, he uses scientific sounding words that really mean nothing.

3, And last, but not least, the misunderstanding about cloud seedling and SRM.

so your asking believers to pat you on the back not real critical thinking exercises... well what a waste of bits/bytes by the way... no such thing. contrails are contrails...deny IGNORANCE

ignorance ; lacking knowledge or information. : resulting from or showing a lack of knowledge.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I know, that's indeed what usually happens.

But that's why I want to laser-focus on the central question: WHY do you think contrails can't persist? What's the science behind that notion? And I really want to get to the bottom of that and see if there's something to it. If there isn't, well, then that will become glaringly obvious real soon.

a reply to: payt69

I would be very surprised if you will actually get a solid answer to "why they can't persist". You're most likely get a deflection, ad Homs and whatever else. They "why" is never actually answered.

originally posted by: CaDreamer
so your asking believers to pat you on the back not real critical thinking exercises... well what a waste of bits/bytes

No, I want believers to explain what must be the foundation of their beliefs. It's stated in so many videos and on so many websites, but it's never explained.

Why can't contrails persist? What makes them different from any other cirrus cloud found at the same altitude? What science are you basing this on, if any?

I'm asking you to exercise your best critical thinking you can muster up to shed light on this!

Do contrails sometimes persist and spread out?

Yes, see the Encyclopædia Britannica article on vapour trails (contrails):

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
vapour trail. (2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online:

a reply to: payt69

oh okay i get that. chemmies ignore evidence that disproves their theories your going to get a migraine on this one. good luck

originally posted by: CaDreamer
Do contrails sometimes persist and spread out?

Yes, see the Encyclopædia Britannica article on vapour trails (contrails):

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
vapour trail. (2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online:

Ok you win the fridge!

But of course this flies in the face of the chemtrail beliefs.. so I suppose you're not a believer then

no im a snarky nonbeliever with edumakation

a reply to: payt69

Because vapors that occur due to altitude evaporate if they are frosted air particles, something in a gaseous state would be the only thing that would be persistent. If someone wants to believe that "chemtrails" do not exist and can not offer proof, that is not different from those that do believe and don't have a way to convince others that they do.

Goof luck in your OP, I will not be returning because I know what comes next and quite frankly, I already have a digestion problem today.

i used to love it when phage would come on and mess with the chemmies.... does that make me a bad person?

originally posted by: searcherfortruth
a reply to: payt69

Because vapors that occur due to altitude evaporate if they are frosted air particles, something in a gaseous state would be the only thing that would be persistent. If someone wants to believe that "chemtrails" do not exist and can not offer proof, that is not different from those that do believe and don't have a way to convince others that they do.

Goof luck in your OP, I will not be returning because I know what comes next and quite frankly, I already have a digestion problem today.

That almost sounds like an explanation, but is really more of a statement without any kind of way to back it up. Care explain what a cirrus cloud is then?

a reply to: payt69

All the believers have to go on are whistleblowers, right? Kinda hard to discuss that any further..

But, imo, many of the contrails up there are not just persisting and spreading, but are nucleating and constructing clouds.

We need particles to nucleate. This doesn't mean they're spraying, of course. But we get jet exhaust (no such thing as perfect combustion), combined with all the crap already up there from all the other types of air pollution, and voila. Persistent contrails.. or chemtrails

Having said that, I wouldnt be surprised at all if there were military ops involving dumping/spraying some kind of cocktail up there for god knows whatever nefarious reason..

whoops, did I say too much..

originally posted by: Tucket
a reply to: payt69

All the believers have to go on are whistleblowers, right? Kinda hard to discuss that any further..

But, imo, many of the contrails up there are not just persisting and spreading, but are nucleating and constructing clouds.

We need particles to nucleate. This doesn't mean they're spraying, of course. But we get jet exhaust (no such thing as perfect combustion), combined with all the crap already up there from all the other types of air pollution, and voila. Persistent contrails.. or chemtrails

Having said that, I wouldnt be surprised at all if there were military ops involving dumping/spraying some kind of cocktail up there for god knows whatever nefarious reason..

whoops, did I say too much..

That's all really interesting, but kindof a different topic.

What I'm asking here is: can contrails persist, and if you think they can't, why not?

I'm really trying to pin it down to that question, as it's never explained.

originally posted by: CaDreamer
i used to love it when phage would come on and mess with the chemmies.... does that make me a bad person?

No the FSM loves us all equally.. I think

originally posted by: payt69

originally posted by: CaDreamer
i used to love it when phage would come on and mess with the chemmies.... does that make me a bad person?

No the FSM loves us all equally.. I think

rAMEN

they're real. theirs video footage,documents, and even accounts of people who know about such experiments

I'll see if I can find the video at another time. But this one scientist explained it like this:

Go for a walk in a park, while breathing out, look behind you and see how far the trail goes, possibly a few feet. Now do that same experiment, but walk 3 miles and then see how much of a trail exists. You won't see a trail. Basically saying that the weather conditions up there wouldn't allow for a contrail to remain for as long periods of time as they do.

If this makes sense at all.

Their crookedly modifying our seeds and the food we eat, what makes you think their not also doing it to the weather.