The Conspiracy of the Religious Elite

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: dffrntkndfnml
unbiblical rituals and symbols.

I understand, and that's a fair criticism of the RCC.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Not true at all.

There are 40 or more instances of doctrine of Christ Jesus in the NT scriptures. Too many to post here but can read them with a Strong's concordance. That is if you are interested. Here are several scriptures that you can read and understand that you must must read in context.

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mat 22:33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

The above was that of Jesus and not Paul.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The above is the doctrine of Jesus and not Paul

Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Again this is not of Paul but of Jesus.

Jesus' doctrine was that which was taught by His brother James and all of the Apostles throughout the NT.

a reply to: Seede

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The above is the doctrine of Jesus and not Paul

Uhm... pardon me?

Jesus didn't teach anything like the above...

purely Paul...

a reply to: Akragon

but have you ever thought of actually listening to Jesus teaching it is fully agreeable to the teaching of Paul

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

By comparing Jesus teaching over the last year and a half because of yours and others anti-Paul rhetoric, I have found Paul expounds on ALL of Jesus teachings.

Rather than just repeating something you have heard do some study before you make false claims about Paul.

The heart of Jesus Teaching is that is is from God both Jesus and Paul say the same thing. Paul expounds because jesus is not going to be returning soon as the 11 and the Jewish church thought he would.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

nonsense... that passage says nothing like "all scripture is good for this and that"

and Paul doesn't teach the doctrine of Jesus... he teaches his own

You paulian's will say anything to make one equal to the other... Fortunately there are many that see the clear distinction between the two

Paul does NOT expound on Jesus' teaching... i've done a lot of study on the bible, and Paul's letters have little to anything to do with what Jesus taught

That in fact is the only false claim i see here...

a reply to: ChesterJohn

He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Just to drive this point home here...

Pauls favorite topic was Himself...

perhaps you didn't notice?

a reply to: Akragon

Jesus didn't teach anything like the above... purely Paul...

This second cepher unto Timotheus, ordained the first elder of the called out assembly of the Eph'siym, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.

I truly did not expect you to read in contextual form that Timothy was ordained the first elder of this assembly and being first elder means that he is the spokesman for Christ Jesus in this assembly. We realize that Jesus has been dead for well over thirty years at this time and that James is still Nasi and high priest in Jerusalem. The New Testament letters were not as yet assembled into a book or codex so we are not talking about the Roman Catholic Bibles or any other bible. What this means is that the teachings of the prophets are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

The reason for this cepher is that the Torah was given to the Covenant of Judaism only and both Timothy and Paul are very aware of this fact. But the prophets such as Isaiah and Joel are not Torah and Jesus did teach from both Isaiah and Joel. Isaiah, Joel and many others taught the same doctrine as Jesus taught and Paul is simply stating a fact as he reminds Timothy that all of the writings of the prophets are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2nd Timothey 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The above is the doctrine of Jesus and not Paul --

a reply to: Seede

We can't know that said passage was his doctrine... it wasn't mentioned in any gospels... thus it was probably not something he taught... though you are free to assume he did teach it

i suppose i could also assume stoning adulterers was also his doctrine by your line of thinking... not to mention killing homosexuals... and other such atrocities found in the OT books just because they're found there

Luckily we do have some writing that says he didn't treat adulterers as the OT tells him to... so we can also assume the other nasty stuff isn't something he taught as well

See... we can assume... or go with what is written instead

i personally prefer what is written... and thus... NOT his doctrine... purely Pauls

a reply to: Akragon

the point is the scriptures and doctrines are all from God. Jesus spoke of himself many times too but you ignore that and just claim it to Paul.

In 1 Corinthians 2 and 2Tim 2 :15 are the only places we are taught how to study the word of God. During Jesus earthly Ministry he never gave any real details he spoke in a lot of parables, many of which he explained to the 12 but over all most of his teachings were very vague and without details. Perfect if Israel was to enter into the promised kingdom upon his resurrection but it never happened, and even after that the 11 plus the other Jewish followers were expecting him to return to set up the promised kingdom.

So upon the revelation he was not going to return he eventually called a Jew, named Saul and instructed him to go to the Gentiles. Because the twelve never went much further than Antioch Caesarea and Samaria. Paul taught in Antioch Caesarea for many years it was there where he called the followers Christians.

It was after his calling that Jesus revealed to him details about many of his teachings of his that he had given during the time before he was crucified and even some after his resurrection before he ascended.

The Gospel no longer required Baptism, Repentance and keeping the Law of Moses as it had been up until Paul's Calling. While it remained part of the gospel of the Kingdom for the circumcised none of that was put on he Gentiles who came to faith on Jesus Christ under the gospel of the Grace of God to which Paul was ordained by the Holy Ghost and those disciples in Antioch Caesarea.

The ransom for many found mentioned in the the Gospel writings of Matthew 20:28, Mark 10:45 and in 1 Timothy was expounded on and revealed that it was Jesus death on the cross that paid the cost of our sin, he went to hell in our place and rose from the dead to give us new life. That life was imputed to us along with his righteousness, his faith, his love, he made us justified before God and through him we have the Holy Ghost in us as a seal until the day we are redeemed, whether we be dead or alive when that day comes.



So you must compare Jesus teachings and with Paul's and you will see that all Paul did was expand on that which Jesus had taught. Over that last year I have marked in the margins and bottoms spaces in my AV Bible the cross references from Christ's Teachings to the expounded teachings he gave by inspiration to Paul. There are many and the one above is one of them but it can only be spiritually discerned or you wont get it or see it. Just as you claim. Read 1Corinthians 2 again and you will see what I am saying is true about discerning God's words.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

the point is the scriptures and doctrines are all from God.

that is your opinion... and Pauls

Jesus spoke of himself many times too but you ignore that and just claim it to Pau

Uhm... ya he did... he spoke of himself a lot... in the gospels... so HOW do i ignore that again?

And i certainly don't "claim it to Paul" in any case... lol

In 1 Corinthians 2 and 2Tim 2 :15 are the only places we are taught how to study the word of God. D

I re read it.. twice, just for you... 90% of the chapter is rhetoric... repeating the same idea, again, and again...

During Jesus earthly Ministry he never gave any real details he spoke in a lot of parables, many of which he explained to the 12 but over all most of his teachings were very vague and without details.

Vague...

Really?

And you need Paul's rhetoric to figure out the simplicity in his teaching?

have you read ANY of the gospels?

the sermon on the mount????

You claim to have a theology doctorate but lack the very teaching of the man you claim to be God...

It was after his calling that Jesus revealed to him details about many of his teachings of his that he had given during the time before he was crucified and even some after his resurrection before he ascended.

Right... all the ones he forgot while he was alive and with his apostles... not to mention the apparent eyewitnesses of his life

So you must compare Jesus teachings and with Paul's and you will see that all Paul did was expand on that which Jesus had taught.

THAT... IS what i do my friend... And i told you to do that a few years back...

Paul has NOTHING to do with Jesus teaching... In fact the gnostic gospels are closer to what Jesus taught then Pauls nonsense...

the idea that Paul basically explained things that Jesus did not reveal is... nonsense

anything he learned about Jesus was from his followers... which wasn't very much apparently...

claimed they gave nothing to his doctrine because it was straight from Jesus...

Over that last year I have marked in the margins and bottoms spaces in my AV Bible the cross references from Christ's Teachings to the expounded teachings he gave by inspiration to Paul.

post some of them...

There are many and the one above is one of them but it can only be spiritually discerned or you wont get it or see it. Just as you claim. Read 1Corinthians 2 again and you will see what I am saying is true about discerning God's words.

Confermation Bias = the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories

a reply to: Akragon

no the point is from the word of God both Jesus and Paul say it you are the one who denies what you see because it can only be spiritually discerned.

You did claim Paul's favorite topic was himself (that is talked about himself) but Jesus talked a lot about himself too here is what you said "Pauls favorite topic was Himself... " See you will make claims of Paul but for get to say it about Jesus. However the real point is Jesus and Paul spoke more about God than themselves combined another fact you ignored.

you only reread it twice and still missed the point and called it rhetoric. No spiritual discernment means you don't have the Holy Ghost teaching you by comparing spiritual to spiritual.

Sermon on the mount was for Israel alone it was preparation for their earthly kingdom with the Messiah on the throne. That never happened and so Jesus Moved on with Paul to reach the world, until the times be fulfilled.

Jesus teachings were very vague and loose of course Jesus had to reveal things to Paul because he wasn't returning right away. otherwise once in the kingdom, had it came, he would of explained it himself. You claim Paul had nothing to do with Jesus teaching is a lie you have not compared the teachings thoroughly enough plus you have not the Holy Ghost, the comforter to teach you. So don't expect to learn anything from God but only from demented men.

I have in other threads already, and I just mentioned on set above about Jesus life being a ransom. Paul also expanded about love, living a holy life, taking care of family, being separate from the world, studying the word of God to know the doctrines is from God and not of man. You need to seek it for you self it will be more believable if you learn it your self. But without the Holy Ghost You can't learn it because you cannot discern the scriptures for they are spiritual and you are fleshly.

There is nothing new under the sun