Some serious theological problems with the Christian religion

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Christianity is the cool parent that let's the world do what it will and simply asks that you change your mind.

NO... lol

Christianity is "Do what i say... or else"

that is not the cool parent...

And I didn't say you haven't read, I said you haven't read without reading through the lens of those who would separate the messages of Jesus and Paul, for they are the same message.

no they're not...

As i've stated, Jesus didn't teach the doctrine of grace...

he said nothing about any "sin debt" that needed paying... or Adam & eve being the first result of sin...

OR that we're unworthy of anything or any such nonsense Paul pushes

Jesus said nothing bad about women... he had no problem sitting with, hanging out with... or dealing with sinners in any sense...

Completely different message then Jesus taught... You believe it is the same because you we're likely taught that from a young child as most Christians are... even i was.

Theres no need to separate the two message because they're already separate...

No. You've been lied to.

Firstly, I wasn't raised Christian. I read the book myself and knew it was true because it reflected my heart and my experiences. I was 17. I chose to read that book and to continue because I knew it was right, and that without ANY human telling me stories first.

My cousin had a shirt that said "John 3:16" on it in the fashion of the old wrestler Stone Cold Steve Austin. That and I remember reading children's versions of the stories of Joseph and David, because their stories started as they were kids, so a child could relate.

But not one human brought me to God. God did that completely.

My childhood was not so blessed as to be in a church family. In fact, I wasn't allowed to be social at all because I was raised by a Narcissist control freak.

Jesus saved me from that, and I'm still dealing with the consequences of that torture.

Manipulation is the hardest thing for me to forgive because of that.

And I was bullied, EVERY DAY FOR 8 YEARS, and often thereafter, by everyone. My name is Tarzan, I always liked helping the teacher, even if they made fun of me, and I was always the smallest, and always the smartest. When I grew, no sport was beyond me, no thinking was beyond me, so then I was hated, not because I was small and an easy target, but because I couldn't be beaten.

I've never been liked. And the majority of the bullies were self-proclaimed CHRISTIANS!

Let me be like Paul, and boast, but boast in the Lord. I know what I'm talking about.

I didn't judge the Author for those who claimed to know Him. I got to know Him so I could learn for myself. If it hadn't been for all that torture, constant physical torture, mental torture, emotional torture, I wouldn't have been driven to learn about this God.

Now I know that I have read, and they may have, but they did not SEE.

That's a gift from God.

Now let me tell you, the words in all the Bible are from Jesus, the Word. Jesus Himself said, "before Abraham was, I AM". He claimed authorship over all the Scriptures with that statement!

What is in red is what came out of the mouth of the lamb, the sacrifice, the Lord in the flesh.

God is one.

The Lord means all of what He says, the whole book, and more.

If you truly think the Bible contains all that Jesus ever said, you forgot something else, that it is written that if all that Jesus did was recorded, the world couldn't contain the books written.

We get to see an extremely small slice of the 30+ years Jesus was a mortal like us. Can you sum up 30 years of action by the living God, every second of it, in a book which can be read in weeks?

Not even close.

The Bible is the book which contains what is necessary for salvation. It does not presume to tell everything ever said and done.

But on that note, we are also told that the Scriptures are enough to have perfect knowledge.

ALL of the Scriptures. Not just the red letters which simply highlight the flesh of the Lord speaking.

ETA: Christianity does not say, "Do as I say or else" in a threatening way. The Judge is telling you that your sins were forgiven 2000 years ago, believe it. You're telling Him that He's wrong. He's TRYING to dismiss all the charges against you! If you stand before a judge on earth, wouldn't you want that? Any sane person would take that deal.

It amazes me, a non studied, non christian making a call based on assumption

I was a christian for 35 years, and probably much more studied than you. I've been studying philosophy for about 30 years, not to mention I have two degrees, was in military intelligence and have worked in IT for ten years now.

But if you can't see the glaring problems with the religion then it doesn't matter who speaks them to you, you won't listen.

originally posted by: CB328

It amazes me, a non studied, non christian making a call based on assumption

I was a christian for 35 years, and probably much more studied than you. I've been studying philosophy for about 30 years, not to mention I have two degrees, was in military intelligence and have worked in IT for ten years now.

But if you can't see the glaring problems with the religion then it doesn't matter who speaks them to you, you won't listen.

Your credentials betray you.

You don't see the glaring problems with yourself if you claim to be Christian for 35 years.

You never once read without reading through the lens of those who would have control over you.

On that note, people with greater credentials than you still see the Truth.

The fact is that you're human and your credentials don't mean anything when it comes to the Word. Your heart does, though.

I'm a VERY bad Christian who TRIES to adhere to traditional values ,though I AM at odds with things in the bible, My faith in God has remained.
Methodists had this CLOTHES thing that pissed me off when they spoke ill of the poor and how they dressed,as if GOD cares.
What is missed here is the individual right to exclude one's self from obnoxious populist behaviour.
There is NO reason why a NEW faith cannot be formed rather than attacking individual faiths that DON'T accept a lifestyle.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I'm a VERY bad Christian who TRIES to adhere to traditional values ,though I AM at odds with things in the bible, My faith in God has remained.
Methodists had this CLOTHES thing that pissed me off when they spoke ill of the poor and how they dressed,as if GOD cares.
What is missed here is the individual right to exclude one's self from obnoxious populist behaviour.
There is NO reason why a NEW faith cannot be formed rather than attacking individual faiths that DON'T accept a lifestyle.

Hey, someone who is honest! No need for a new faith. "Come as ye are". Anyone who claims Christians need to be in a suit in church, even the poor, aren't Christians. They're blasphemous networkers.

Stay true brother.

Why adhere to ANY religion? Just keep it simple. God created us and loves us. We were created as equals and will die as equals..still as God's creations. "Religion" is just human ego overcomplicating the love that God has for each of us.

originally posted by: carewemust
Why adhere to ANY religion? Just keep it simple. God created us and loves us. We were created as equals and will die as equals..still as God's creations. "Religion" is just human ego overcomplicating the love that God has for each of us.

Human religion, indeed.

But we know God said that perfect religion is to visit the widow in her despair and to take care of the orphans and to be unspotted to the world.

That means if we are nonchalantly breaking state laws without regard to morality, we're placing ourselves under the law, for God has given authority to governments to rule.

Christians should not place ourselves under that law, if possible. If the state declares punishment for being Christian, then we know whose law is greater.

But that is perfect religion. And the Greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul; and the second is like it, to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Note that if you don't love yourself to an extent, you can't love your neighbor in any good way.

To an extent.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Well you seem to be a very level headed christian... Which is a rarity

One question... Where have i been lied to?

I am self taught... And i've been studying the bible and many other religious texts for over 16 years now...

What i said is true... Its all there in the NT texts

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Well you seem to be a very level headed christian... Which is a rarity

One question... Where have i been lied to?

I am self taught... And i've been studying the bible and many other religious texts for over 16 years now...

What i said is true... Its all there in the NT texts

The enemy has convinced you that Paul and Jesus have different messages. I know the doctrine you're speaking of. It's a fringe movement. It's not an idea one gets by reading the Bible and dividing it by its own words. There are people who set out to claim that Paul should be removed from the Bible because some say that he never stopped being evil, but that he made up his stories in order to subvert the Christian movement.

Those are lies.

And you also assumed that I was raised in the Lord. I was not. That was a lie planted into your mind by the enemy also.

I don't judge you at all for it. I'm simply calling out the enemy with whom I am well acquainted.

ETA: you call me a level headed Christian, but I'm only saying what is in the book. The Author is the level headed one.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

Once God has revealed Himself to you, which you don't do, but He does, then you have the option of choice. If you were in a hospital bed and you couldn't get out of it, then how will you choose what food you want? Someone will have to arrive with the menu so that you can choose to eat what you will or not.

Ok, then according to you God chooses who will know him.

So what's the point of Theology, Religion, Belief in God, etc. If God chooses not to reveal himself then it's just "tough sh*t pal".

I'm not ruling out completely hearing others. I'm talking about attitude. People are wrong, God is not. The way to know what is right is to get the truth from the Source, if He so chooses to give it.

What God?? How would you know??? Do you speak for God now too??? Why should anyone listen to what you have to say on the matter??? If God is the source of Truth and chooses not to reveal himself or the Truth that's his fault then and not anyone's fault for not knowing what is True according to you then.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

Once God has revealed Himself to you, which you don't do, but He does, then you have the option of choice. If you were in a hospital bed and you couldn't get out of it, then how will you choose what food you want? Someone will have to arrive with the menu so that you can choose to eat what you will or not.

Ok, then according to you God chooses who will know him.

So what's the point of Theology, Religion, Belief in God, etc. If God chooses not to reveal himself then it's just "tough sh*t pal".

I'm not ruling out completely hearing others. I'm talking about attitude. People are wrong, God is not. The way to know what is right is to get the truth from the Source, if He so chooses to give it.

What God?? How would you know??? Do you speak for God now too??? Why should anyone listen to what you have to say on the matter??? If God is the source of Truth and chooses not to reveal himself or the Truth that's his fault then and not anyone's fault for not knowing what is True according to you then.

God knows who is willing to hear Him.

Do you speak to people that deny your intelligence outright without any reason to back up the assumption? Or do you ignore those who scoff at the very thought of you?

It's not God's fault if people choose to be wilfully ignorant and wilfully deaf.

Laying in the hospital bed, if you get a reputation for yelling at the nurses, are they going to draw straws to see who has to bring you the menu? Or will they say, "when he stops being mean to me, I'll bring him the menu."

You shouldn't listen to me.

Read the Bible earnestly seeking the Truth. Then you will prove you are hungry, and the menu will arrive, and you will be satisfied now. But tomorrow your hunger will grow, so you will be even nicer to the nurses until they bring you food not on the menu, and also desert.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

It's not God's fault if people choose to be wilfully ignorant and wilfully deaf.

There are many who have honestly begged and listened and prayed for God to Speak and been left without an answer.

Not everyone doubts or disbelieves because they've chosen to. But that does make for a great excuse for when you want to place the blame on them. Which seems strange because even you admit it's not up to us, but to God whether he chooses to show himself.

Your God sounds like a bigot of sorts. If he decides who knows him yet punishes those who don't know him at the same time, that sounds a bit unfair don't ya think???

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

It's not God's fault if people choose to be wilfully ignorant and wilfully deaf.

There are many who have honestly begged and listened and prayed for God to Speak and been left without an answer.

Not everyone doubts or disbelieves because they've chosen to. But that does make for a great excuse for when you want to place the blame on them. Which seems strange because even you admit it's not up to us, but to God whether he chooses to show himself.

Your God sounds like a bigot of sorts. If he decides who knows him yet punishes those who don't know him at the same time, that sounds a bit unfair don't ya think???

I know that feeling very well.

I've spent years crying to God without an answer.

Silence was the answer. The future was the answer.

God is not always silent just because people are bad. Sometimes the situation has a purpose, if that one is not perpetuating their own circumstance.

Sometimes, I perpetuate my problems.

It's not bigotry to know when to speak and when not to. I think it is arrogance for the child to demand of the Father. We come to Him boldly, but completely undeserving. Every single day we foul up. That's what we do.

But if you stay strong in faith, He will not only answer, but He will act.

You may not have noticed, but in my analogy, the nurses are the angels and the angels are the messengers of God.

As soon as time has come, they are to act immediately, and they do.

I can tell you stories that you simply wouldn't believe at this point. You can't. You don't see, yet. When you do see something, ask me.

I know that you're hurting and you have a good heart. I'm sorry you're so angry.

originally posted by: CB328

It amazes me, a non studied, non christian making a call based on assumption

I was a christian for 35 years, and probably much more studied than you. I've been studying philosophy for about 30 years, not to mention I have two degrees, was in military intelligence and have worked in IT for ten years now.

But if you can't see the glaring problems with the religion then it doesn't matter who speaks them to you, you won't listen.

Hmmm

Lets see

Christianity- namely that Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion.

Nicene creed, I went over that

Rapture

vital tenet? Hmmmm...
I think Christians are convinced He is returning, you are just splitting, revelations is a book on prophecy, its open to understanding
I would think a STUDIED christian would know that, understand that

Jesus was an advocate for Wealth or poverty

Jesus was an advocate for commitment to God under all circumstance, wealth poverty, slave free, homosexual or straight
Its your problem, not the churches

and finally my well studied friend

and most important unsettled issue however is salvation itself-

Really, you get into predestination, really, how does that effect the question?

Lets see, accept Jesus, repent of sin and be baptised, its not that hard, produce fruit of the Spirit.
If you dont want to be baptised then thats an individual choice, no problems if it is done for a valid reason.

You may well have gone to church, listened to "christianity" for 35 years but you learned very little as I can see from your listed questions
I am sure your MI service and two degrees help you live a great life, its clear they didnt teach you how to understand and accept others, even with faults. Thats an indication of a failed christian, fundamentalism

No I wont listen to a person with all the credentials and 35 years in a church who cant work through a handful of minor issues like those

Hey, you forgot creation and evolution, why not bring that up, thats a doozy.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

It's not God's fault if people choose to be wilfully ignorant and wilfully deaf.

There are many who have honestly begged and listened and prayed for God to Speak and been left without an answer.

Not everyone doubts or disbelieves because they've chosen to. But that does make for a great excuse for when you want to place the blame on them. Which seems strange because even you admit it's not up to us, but to God whether he chooses to show himself.

Your God sounds like a bigot of sorts. If he decides who knows him yet punishes those who don't know him at the same time, that sounds a bit unfair don't ya think???

Please dont confuse YHWH with Buddha
YHWH doesnt like His tummy rubbed, He doesnt respond to flattery.

Sometimes not receiving an answer is an answer
God works with us, not for us, His goal is not immediate, call it faith in the plan, why we are told to have faith, things will go hull up, thats a gaurantee

I know how silly it sounds

a reply to: CB328

In my ongoing quest to analyze religion and it's effect on society I have had a realization lately about Christianity- namely that Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion. Why should people be willing to devote their lives to a belief system that isn't even clearly defined? If you don't believe me, then read on.

I have had a really difficult time with this throughout my life. I grew up as a standard christian. Went to church, read my bible, prayed often.

No that I am older and have been exposed to the vast world of conspiracies I have pretty much given up on religion for the most part, but it does not feel right. I believe in Jesus and I believe he has worked in my life so I am very reluctant to give that faith up.

So these days I keep it simple, just obey the ten commandments and trust that itll all work out.

I feel like regardless of what religion you are the ten commandments are a valuable guide on how we ought to live our lives. I don't think you can go wrong that way.

originally posted by: GoShredAK
a reply to: CB328

In my ongoing quest to analyze religion and it's effect on society I have had a realization lately about Christianity- namely that Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion. Why should people be willing to devote their lives to a belief system that isn't even clearly defined? If you don't believe me, then read on.

I have had a really difficult time with this throughout my life. I grew up as a standard christian. Went to church, read my bible, prayed often.

No that I am older and have been exposed to the vast world of conspiracies I have pretty much given up on religion for the most part, but it does not feel right. I believe in Jesus and I believe he has worked in my life so I am very reluctant to give that faith up.

So these days I keep it simple, just obey the ten commandments and trust that itll all work out.

I feel like regardless of what religion you are the ten commandments are a valuable guide on how we ought to live our lives. I don't think you can go wrong that way.

Someone else that's honest.

The beauty of one's heart that can never reject Jesus in the face of so much temptation is amazing.

It's impossible to be perfect in this world, but I think perfection is found in those who hold on to Jesus never denying no matter how hard it gets and no matter how hard we fail.

That's good stuff right there.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Hey thank you!

That really means a lot to me, and inspires me to never give up.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: CB328 Jesus went after the religious leaders. And them came after him and got him crucified. He stood against religion. He stood for a personal relationship with God through him. You didnt know that? Mohhammad was a perv, liar, thief, and murderer. Take your choice

That's the Jesus I keep in my heart.

Christianity has been twisted.

I don't think Jesus would be too happy with Christianity.

originally posted by: GoShredAK
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Hey thank you!

That really means a lot to me, and inspires me to never give up.

And thank you, too. You let me know that I have family out there.