Some serious theological problems with the Christian religion

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Really Jesus returned? What year? So you're saying the OT prophecies in Joel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel etc for when the Lord returns to judge the nations and war with the Beast/Antichrist it's all Western Europe? The 6th Empire you correctly identified as the Roman Empire, but when did it end and who defeated it? You just said the 10 Germanic tribes did, that's false. Western Roman Empire collapsed, but did the Empire end then? No it did not, the capitol moved to Constantinople Turkey and it continued for another 1000 years after Rome collapsed.

The Byzantine Empire is still the Roman Empire, it was conquered in 1453 AD by the 7th Beast empire/mountain, the Turkish Ottoman Empire. The Muslims, and the 7th continued till 1924.

When Christ returns on the clouds, riding on the clouds where does He go? What does the verse say? (Isaiah 19:1)

"The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it."


When He returns He is on His way to Egypt, is that Rome? Is that the Vatican? What about this verse when He returns and judges EDOM ? (Isaiah 63:1-4)

" Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come."


Is Edom the Vatican? Is it? Edom in the Bible is southern Jordan and the Arabian coastline down to Yemen. Ezekiel tells you what Edom is according to God: (Ezekiel 25:13)

"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it; and I will make it desolate from Teman; and they of Dedan shall fall by the sword."

That's Saudi Arabia. Still Muslim nations, haven't seen any nation is the western Roman Empire yet.. I know what you're thinking now. "But when Jesus was telling His followers about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, He said to them that 'the people of the prince that shall come (antichrist) shall trodden down the city..". Right? There ya go, the Romans destroyed the city in 70 AD.

Is that what Jesus said? Read closely, He said "the PEOPLE of the Prince that shall come..", He never said the nationality. They were Syrian Roman legions, they were ARAB Roman legions, not Italian.

Tell me how the Pope fits 4 of these 33 titles the Bible uses for the antichrist:

"Prince of Tyre" (Lebanon)
"King of Babylon" (Iraq and Arabia)
"The Assyrian" (Syria and Turkey)
"The Pharoah of Egypt" (Egypt)

How does the Pope from Rome carry those titles? With there be an Assyrian Pope someday? (Syria/Turkish)

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Really Jesus returned? What year?

perhaps... a few days after he died?

a reply to: CB328

Yes... There's something Theologically and inherently wrong with every single religion on the face of this rock.

Religion is another way for power and money hungry people to control the mass populace.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Really Jesus returned? What year?

perhaps... a few days after he died?

That's the resurrection, not the 2nd advent to Earth.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Really Jesus returned?

His descendants live and is intermarried into Western European royalty. According to the Merovingian grail myth, Sarah, a daughter of Jesus and Magdalen brought Jesus' blood into the European royalty gene pool. All European royals are somewhat related to Jesus, so yes, you can say Jesus is back. Jesus -- the Horn of Salvation, eh?

And when does Jesus really return? Is it before or after the Peace Millennium? Go read the Book of Revelation from cover to cover, and pay special attention to the person who is addressed at the end of each of the seven church-letters, the person of whom Jesus says:

«The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I (i.e. Jesus) will be his God and he will be my son.» [ESV] Revelation 21:7

This son of Jesus is the Christ, the true messiah of the new age, his name is Faithful and True. It isn't Jesus who is the Christ/Messiah who comes flying on the Pegasus all sparkling and awesome in Revelation 19:11ff, it's the new Christ, [ESV:] He who conquers (alt [KJV:] He that overcometh). The Word of God. The successor to the crown of Earth.

«From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron.» [ESV] Revelation 19:15

Compare with:

«The one who conquers (The son of Jesus, see Re 21:7) and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself (i.e. Jesus) have received authority from my Father.» [ESV] Revelation 2:26-27

As you see the royal messianic bloodline is far from broken. Jesus doesn't return until after the Millennium, and he enters the New Jerusalem from space in about 1000 years, as God of System Sol to meet with his son Rex Mundi and hear all the stories.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It's impossible to say Jesus is back. The angels who spoke to the apostles in Acts when He ascended to heaven told them that He would come again exactly as He ascended. Physically, in a body, and in a cloud. He will return to the Earth in the same manner He ascended.

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

In Revelation is says that EVERY EYE will see Him return, everyone on Earth will see Him, riding on the clouds as Isaiah 63 says, and He Himself says it will be as lightning, from one side of the sky to the other.

Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

So no, Jesus hasn't come back yet. He comes with great power, glory, a loud noise, and everyone will know the King has returned. He is coming to destroy the antichrist, judge the nations, and He is coming to rule a kingdom that will cover the entire Earth (Daniel 2). And He will rule from the throne of David as Gabriel told Mary that her son would. The throne of David didn't exist in her day, and hasn't existed since.


Everything else you posted isn't a son of Jesus, it's Jesus Himself. His second coming, He said many times He would return. Go back above and look at Acts 1:11 it says "THIS SAME JESUS.."

a reply to: NOTurTypical

How many people saw the Queen of England descend as vicar for 007 during the London Olympics? I'd say the whole world more or less caught that moment. Still nobody thinks of it nowadays. We live in a time where you can be seen by the whole world, and still people wouldn't recognise you. Or like there are millions of celebrities, and how there are millions of worldwide news broadcasts. The media and entertainment scene today is insane as for coverage.

Again, do as I asked of you and get it into your narrow head that He that overcometh isn't Jesus. He that overcometh is the Messiah. He that overcometh is the Prince of Peace. He that overcometh is the Word of God. He that overcometh is called Faithful and True. He that overcometh is the Son of Jesus.

Can't you even read?

The return of the Messiah is the return of the Throne of David, and for all I care, that happened in 1948 when the Land of Israel was established and got its first president, ruling in turns of seven years.

I once showed me arse on MTV and the pics were broadcast all over the world, does that make me into the King of the Jews?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Sorry, the throne of David is the throne David sat on in Israel, where Jesus will rule the entire world. In Daniel 2 the stone cut without hands, (Him), smashed the statue of metal (kingdoms of man) and it grew into a mountain (kingdom) that covered the entire Earth.

Jesus has not returned yet, He isn't ruling from Jerusalemy on a throne, and Satan most certainly isn't bound in the Abyss. The OT has 1,800 verses talking about the rule of the Lord on Earth in the millennial reign, and over 300 in the NT. It's a literal reign, and it's a literal return. Exactly like the Bible says it will be.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Sorry, the throne of David is the throne David sat on in Israel, where Jesus will rule the entire world.

Have you ever considered the possibility that not all the writers of scripture had the same theology or expectations?

As far as I'm concerned, the clearest expositions of Christian faith are given in Paul's Letter to Galatians and Anonymous Letter to Hebrews. A message to Gentiles on the one hand and a message to the Jewish believers on the other.

Look at the archetypes used. In Galatians, Paul focuses on Abraham as archetype, Jesus is seed of Abraham. Special emphasis: The promise came 430 years before the Law. The law cannot abrogate the promise. David has no significance as an archetype in Galatians whatsoever. Irrelevant. What about Jerusalem?

Gal 4:24These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

Now for Hebrews. The writer uses Moses as archetype, of whom Jesus is superior to. Moses, not David. The type is the tent in the desert. Tent, not Temple. The temple is not something the tribal god wanted in the first place. It was added because of the hardness of hearts (to paraphrase Jesus). The Tent is significant, not the temple. The temple is nothing.

What about Jerusalem in Hebrews:

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
...
25See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”e 27The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

The heavenly Jerusalem survives shaking, no army required, no war required, no stone temple required. All those things can be shaken to ruin.

Now back to Abraham and the city:

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
...
12And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Earthly Jerusalem is nothing. Earthly Temple nothing. Earthly David, not worth mentioning. Earthly establishment of Israel nothing.

Even the earthly kingship was not the intent of the tribal deity. That also was added because of hardness of heart.

Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22“You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23“But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Sorry, the throne of David is the throne David sat on in Israel

No, a throne is its heirs, living people who are rightful legal heirs to the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Namely the descendants of Jesus of Nazareth. European royalty.

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: CB328

Religion is another way for power and money hungry people to control the mass populace.

Institutionalized religion for sure - just look at the crusades, their ideology was the antithesis to Christianity.

But, The words of Jesus at their core are a guide to life and show us how to overcome the matrix.

a reply to: whereislogic

TextCause I already addressed it many times on ATS, and received no logical reasonable responses and a lot of distractions like you ignoring the phrase "the beginning of the creation by God" now. Or more pot calling the kettle black as you use the KJV and a translation from Hebrew to English that still uses Hebrew words that are easily translatable, keeping it nice and vague to suit a doctrine and religious agenda, just like the KJV does with the word "Hallelujah", which means "praise Jah!" (and a sneaky deception in John 1:1 which could have been corrected in the NKJV but wasn't, as is the case with many other popular translations demonstrating the theological bias of their translators and publishers, as well as Matthew 7:13,14 quite nicely, i.e. providing evidence). Please don't ignore what comes after 3:21 in the video below:

In response to your rantings, I do not sit at my keyboard and argue videos which are nothing but other opinions. I can get opinions every and all day without picture shows. What we are discussing is the literature of the Apostle John and in all fairness, in a debate, the literature which is translated by hundreds of known and well respected translators should be honored.

What you are now saying is that the majority of the many MSS that do exist are somehow mistranslated and that your band of uneducated interpreters are correct in word change. Nothing could be more false than what you propose. Not one of your founders or translators were even graduates of any sort in the linguist field. No not one. All were self appointed students of the 1611 KJV bible till 1961. You had best re examine your own source before you try to reorganize the many professional linguists who are numbered in the hundreds.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Sorry, the throne of David is the throne David sat on in Israel

No, a throne is its heirs, living people who are rightful legal heirs to the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Namely the descendants of Jesus of Nazareth. European royalty.

Jesus has no heirs. The entire OT is littered with prophecy that Jesus will rule the Earth and reign from Israel. He will, Himself.

a reply to: pthena

The angel Gabriel told Mary her son would rule from David's throne. That's the same thing Daniel saw in the vision in Daniel 2 when interpreting Nebuchanezzar's dream. The Messiah would return, destroy the government's of man, and His kingdom would grow to fill the entire Earth. As I said above, there are 1800 roughly prophecies on the OT and 300 or so in the NT that talk about Jesus/the Lord returning and ruling from Jerusalemy, anywhere in the OT that talks about the Day of the Lord is talking about His reign as king.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

The angel Gabriel

You mean the same angel who taught Mohamed to recite?

Does it mean nothing to you that the tribal deity did not want his people to have a king, or a temple?

a reply to: pthena

Mohammad said he met a shining entity in a cave that had all the colors of the rainbow in him, that's a description of another guy in the Bible, not Gabriel. Even his own wife tried to warn him that it was a jinn.

And YHWH wanted to lead them, for God to be their king and they didn't want that and demanded a king like other nations had. Jesus the Son of God leading them as King would comply with the idea in mind of YHWH. It is what it is, the OT has almost 2000 references to the rule of the Messiah from Jerusalem, I keep saying this, but read Daniel 2 and the king's vision, Daniel told him it was for the end time.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Isaiah 8…13"It is the LORD of hosts whom you should regard as holy. And He shall be your fear, And He shall be your dread. 14"Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15"Many will stumble over them, Then they will fall and be broken; They will even be snared and caught."…

This is as far as I can go. The tribal deity somehow got the impression that I was his champion, so now I have to remind him that, no, we've had this conversation before.

a reply to: pthena

Amen, that verse has been fulfilled for almost 2000 years now. The Lord of hosts, who shall be called holy is Jesus. He is a rock of offense and a stumbling block for the Jews, He has been since He pronounced spiritual blindness on them the day He rode into Jerusalem on a donkey as the Moshiyach Nagid. (Messiah the King)

a reply to: NOTurTypical

pronounced spiritual blindness

And the children cheered their king.

The grownups didn't see that this was real, well most of them, it's not like I'm prejudiced against grownups.

And thus was fulfilled the scripture... what Jesus considered important. The rest, meh.

If the Palm Sunday Procession isn't real enough to people, well, then maybe they haven't become as children. I think Jesus may have said something along those lines, as the story goes.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Really Jesus returned? What year?

perhaps... a few days after he died?

That's the resurrection, not the 2nd advent to Earth.

Well... Call it whatever you wish...

Seems to me thats two times... Living then returning/resurrecting...