Peter's denial and its meaning

When I say Peter's denial and its meaning it might not end up being the meaning that you are you used to hearing. But I find deeper meaning in many events that weren't apparent at first.

All four Gospels have the same account of Jesus telling Peter he will deny him 3 times. Matthew and Mark are immediately followed by Jesus prayer in Gethsemane and an almost startlingly human Jesus repeating to himself flesh is weak and acting much like a man about to face peril, keeping Peter awake and then saying "Get up, let us be going. See my betrayer is at hand." And he is going to let himself be handed over, told Judas to do it even.

Luke proceeds to the mocking and beating of Jesus and John is the one Gospel where Jesus tells Peter he is going somewhere Peter can't follow.


This is no act of cowardice or betrayal but more like Jesus telling Peter to deny him three times and it is Peter's duty to fulfill the prophecy even if he doesn't understand it. Jesus himself seems to have a moment of doubt in the Mark telling.

Also the denial seems more like a test of loyalty. Under pressure Peter passes the test and the cock crows signaling the fulfillment of the prophecy. 3 times Peter was asked and like a stand up guy he did what Jesus told him to and kept his mouth shut. Peter passed the test. Peter really would have rather died than deny Jesus. For him to deny Jesus 3 times must have been gut wrenching and excruciating for Peter but he had his orders. And he did his duty.

I bet when that cock crowed Peter was given a revelation as to his mission.

a reply to: Wombocracy

This is no act of cowardice or betrayal but more like Jesus telling Peter to deny him three times and it is Peter's duty to fulfill the prophecy even if he doesn't understand it. Jesus himself seems to have a moment of doubt in the Mark telling.

Also the denial seems more like a test of loyalty. Under pressure Peter passes the test and the cock crows signaling the fulfillment of the prophecy. 3 times Peter was asked and like a stand up guy he did what Jesus told him to and kept his mouth shut. Peter passed the test. Peter really would have rather died than deny Jesus. For him to deny Jesus 3 times must have been gut wrenching and excruciating for Peter but he had his orders. And he did his duty.

Yes! Yes! Yes!!! I have never believed that Peter betrayed Jesus -- nor did Jesus ever accuse Peter of betrayal. Peter only "denied" Jesus because Jesus instructed him to do so.

I bet when that cock crowed Peter was given a revelation as to his mission.

I never thought of that -- but it sure makes sense.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Wombocracy

This is no act of cowardice or betrayal but more like Jesus telling Peter to deny him three times and it is Peter's duty to fulfill the prophecy even if he doesn't understand it. Jesus himself seems to have a moment of doubt in the Mark telling.

Also the denial seems more like a test of loyalty. Under pressure Peter passes the test and the cock crows signaling the fulfillment of the prophecy. 3 times Peter was asked and like a stand up guy he did what Jesus told him to and kept his mouth shut. Peter passed the test. Peter really would have rather died than deny Jesus. For him to deny Jesus 3 times must have been gut wrenching and excruciating for Peter but he had his orders. And he did his duty.

Yes! Yes! Yes!!! I have never believed that Peter betrayed Jesus -- nor did Jesus ever accuse Peter of betrayal. Peter only "denied" Jesus because Jesus instructed him to do so.

I bet when that cock crowed Peter was given a revelation as to his mission.

I never thought of that -- but it sure makes sense.

Total guess on my part but it has to have some significance (the cock) because it made it into all four Gospels.

But imagine you are Peter, Jesus is gone and the last message he gave you was to deny him and that it would happen before the cock crows (twice).

As soon as you deny him for the third time you hear it. You would be filled with a feeling of certainty and joy beyond description. Your best friend gave you a sign that he is not gone!

a reply to: Wombocracy

As soon as you deny him for the third time you hear it. You would be filled with a feeling of certainty and joy beyond description. Your best friend gave you a sign that he is not gone!

And the moment when that third cock crowed would have been the exact moment when Peter knew that in denying Jesus as instructed that he had fulfilled his duty to Jesus... that he had actually served Jesus in a very special way... which is the exact opposite of betraying Jesus. Imagine how his faith multiplied at that moment as well!

And if Jesus added a vision to boot... what a mystical and magical and miraculous experience that would be!

No wonder Peter would be the rock of His church.

Wow
That all sounds so great
Except it's just silly
Peter swore an oath denying Christ, an oath had meaning in those days
Mark 14/71 makes it very clear
Then Peter is recorded to have wept, wept because he failed to,support Jesus, denied Him
Also all the apostles turned their back on Christ and are recorded doing that
You can only assume, assume with no evidence or foundation

Peter is not thr head of the church, Peter was a man who was terrified of death, who is recorded as denying Christ three times
Jesus is the head of the Protestant church, His church

Fundamentalists who teach what is not in the bible or even contrary to what is in the bible, just the total opposite to what is recorded

Where do you get this secret knowledge from gnosisfaith

a reply to: Wombocracy

I don't see it the way, I just see it as Jesus foreknowing that Peter would deny Him. Peter had boasted that he would die for Jesus, and ultimately later in life he would, but that night in the Sanhedrin when Jesus was in a sham trial nobody stood up for Him. It was no test Peter had to "pass", for when the cock crowed and Jesus looked over at Peter the text says Peter wept bitterly remembering what Jesus had told him. It had to be his worst moment in life, I mean how he felt internally. It was glorious that after Jesus resurrected from the dead He specifically asked Peter if he loved Him three times also. Peter knew he was forgiven, and that must have been amazing.

a reply to: Wombocracy

Peter wasn't full of joy, he wept bitterly. He was devastated, weeping, which is remorse to the point of being ill.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Agreed. I have nothing to add to this perfect answer brother.

Jesus said that Peter could not follow him where Jesus was going in John 13:36. Peter is a symbol for Aries. The Age of Aries (~2,000 BC -1 AD) ended at 1 AD with Jesus which started the Age of Pisces (1 AD - ~2,000 AD). What Jesus is saying is that the new Age of Pisces had begun and that the Age of Aries had ended. Jesus is the new Apollon; the Sun Disc. The sun dictates the Astrological Ages due to its travels across the 12 constellations (i.e. the 12 apostels) in the sky. The "old ways" that Aries represented had to be left behind in the new age, thus Peter could not follow Jesus into the Age of Pisces. What in perticular of the "old ways" was to be symbolically discared with this little story? The Jewish laws of unclean food, in Peter's vision of a sheet with animals, he refused to eat any unclean food.



-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Really? Now we are mixing New Age occultism and Theosophy with Christianity? I don't think so, Jesus was ascending to heaven, Peter wasn't. He was to stay and proclaim the gospel. And Peter's vision of the unclean animals was a metaphor for the Gentiles, the Jews considered them unclean. Jesus was telling Peter that the gospel was now to go out to the Gentiles as well.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yes and when the women at the empty grave were told to go and tell the apostles "and Peter" that He had rose from the dead . Peter must have needed that extra encouragement for them to be told to tell him specifically .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yes and when the women at the empty grave were told to go and tell the apostles "and Peter" that He had rose from the dead . Peter must have needed that extra encouragement for them to be told to tell him specifically .

This might just be me, but I think Jesus said it that way because Peter wasn't restored to discipleship until he told Jesus he loved Him three times.

a reply to: Wombocracy

oooooooooooooooops . . . wrong thread . . . the one listed just below this one was what I thought I'd opened. Silly of me.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

You usually don't see anything the right way, imo.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yes and when the women at the empty grave were told to go and tell the apostles "and Peter" that He had rose from the dead . Peter must have needed that extra encouragement for them to be told to tell him specifically .

This might just be me, but I think Jesus said it that way because Peter wasn't restored to discipleship until he told Jesus he loved Him three times.

I would love to see proof of this. Do you have proof? Peter never lost rank, sorry.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Wombocracy

Peter wasn't full of joy, he wept bitterly. He was devastated, weeping, which is remorse to the point of being ill.

You have to be the absolute worst person when it comes to understanding Biblical matters.

You have the most simple comprehension of everything and can't think outside the box for a minute.

Basically you are boring and almost always wrong.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Wombocracy

As soon as you deny him for the third time you hear it. You would be filled with a feeling of certainty and joy beyond description. Your best friend gave you a sign that he is not gone!

And the moment when that third cock crowed would have been the exact moment when Peter knew that in denying Jesus as instructed that he had fulfilled his duty to Jesus... that he had actually served Jesus in a very special way... which is the exact opposite of betraying Jesus. Imagine how his faith multiplied at that moment as well!

And if Jesus added a vision to boot... what a mystical and magical and miraculous experience that would be!

No wonder Peter would be the rock of His church.

You see this [NOTurTypical]?

This is called thinking. Boadicea is not too off point that he/she has to go to the most simple understanding possible. This person uses their brain.

Sorry Boadicea, the fundamental brigade is here to insult Peter (because he is not Paul) and you make a great example of someone who actually gets it.

I wish there were more like you friend.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Wombocracy

Peter wasn't full of joy, he wept bitterly. He was devastated, weeping, which is remorse to the point of being ill.

Are you going to provide a quote or something? Because I think I can use every opinion about anything you have had since I joined ATS, if I printed it out, as tp.

You are the last person I would ever consider worth listening too in Biblical matters. No offense but you don't get anything and don't pay attention to #.

I feel sorry for you people who think you are so smart but can't understand that Peter was actually told ahead of time to deny Jesus.

I am sorry that you have zero ability to think beyond the most simple use of words that actually have a more complex meaning.

People like Raggeymens, who can't even form an opinion without calling his pastor. I feel sorry for you.

And anyone who thinks like him/her/? You can keep your intellect stunted, that is your right.

I just thank God that I am not YOU.

Everyday of my life. I am not at all surprised that none of you get it [I don't mean you Boadicea, you actually get it]. If you did I would be shocked, happy, but shocked.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Wombocracy

As soon as you deny him for the third time you hear it. You would be filled with a feeling of certainty and joy beyond description. Your best friend gave you a sign that he is not gone!

And the moment when that third cock crowed would have been the exact moment when Peter knew that in denying Jesus as instructed that he had fulfilled his duty to Jesus... that he had actually served Jesus in a very special way... which is the exact opposite of betraying Jesus. Imagine how his faith multiplied at that moment as well!

And if Jesus added a vision to boot... what a mystical and magical and miraculous experience that would be!

No wonder Peter would be the rock of His church.

Absolutely. The Rock he was.

The story may or may not be fiction, but people who consider Peter's denial an act of cowardice vs the test of loyalty it really was should consider the upside down crucifixion of Peter at Peter's request.

True though it may be, I am sure Peter was a Martyr one way or another and did die for the name of the Messiah. Pretty much proves he really was willing to, and would rather die instead of deny Christ.

Jesus saw his strength when others couldn't, it's what he does. He had a blood relative like James who was perhaps the most respected man in Judea and was never leaving, so he chose Peter to be the one to go out and preach the Gospel of Christ because he was loyal beyond question in his willingness to obey Jesus. He could be trusted to keep the message pure.


Too bad he couldn't live forever. Nicea messed up everything.