Revelation 17...???

originally posted by: Dcopymope
a reply to: NOTurTypical

vhb: Nothing new under the sun; if so truly, why the continuing charade? WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

Dcopy; Are you asking what happens next in relation to Bible prophecy?

vhb: Sure; yes, but add to it your own twist (your thoughts without Biblical doctrine telling you 'this is so'). These thoughts could include your dialog with your perceived creator or what some call your "higher selves". I have my own conversations with such entities so have an exclusive (personal/individualized) picture as to what the future for mankind holds (it is not verified by the Bible).

Dcopy: You first

vhb:I am not answering my own question. I would be cheating you of an opportunity to think for yourself (plus I am interested in your response).

Dcopy: First off, how exactly do you define someone who "thinks for themselves"? Based on your previous response, I'm assuming you define it as someone who has a "personalized conversation with their higher selves" (whatever that's supposed to mean). I'm trying to gauge whether I should waste my good time with some unbeliever, because this is exactly the thing I came here not to do, converse with heathens about the word of God. I'm contemplating on waiting to have a conversation with these 'entities' you speak of so I don't disappoint you.

Do not waste your 'good times' energy with some nebulous unbeliever because this is exactly the thing I came here to do; converse with posers regarding God's word. Do not contemplate, you already hesitated and the window may have closed. Your Posse or higher selves are waiting for your reply. They are counting upon YOU to drag them/past life experiences into a validity, a new reality.

a reply to: Joecroft

Answer:

Harlotry is referenced many times to symbolize spiritual infidelity.

This probably refers to political intrigues in which the "kings" of these nations collaborate with the “harlot” in spiritual misconduct. God called Israel’s disobedience to Him adultery and harlotry (Jeremiah 3:8-9; Jeremiah 5:7; Jeremiah 13:27; Ezekiel 16:32).

The Harlot woman’s influence is extensive. It holds influence over the kings of the earth and holds influence over a large portion of the earth’s population.

The description of her as one “who sits on many waters” (Revelation 17:1) is later explained:

“The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues” (verse 15). In verse 2 she is further described as making the inhabitants of the earth “drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

Dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication” - She deceives many by her appearance. Although she looks beautiful and has the trappings of wealth, luxury and authority, her actions are an abomination to God.

The harlot teaches a false, idolatrous form of worship. As the mother of harlots, she will also have daughters that will teach similar abominable doctrines, teachings that would be in opposition to what Jesus and His disciples taught.

This woman is responsible for the deaths of the faithful “martyrs of Jesus” and that this woman “is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth”


Realizing that they had been deceived or disappointed by the scarlet woman, they will then turn on her and destroy her.

“And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

Many believe this "Woman" to be the Roman Catholic Church because it has for centuries ruled over kings of the earth and holds great influence.

Though Christian in name, this institution has persecuted God’s faithful people throughout the ages and changed many fundamental doctrines taught by Christ and the first-century apostles. Praying to saints and Mary, Stating there is no direct relationship with Christ and that their "church" has to be an intermediary to God, etc.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Sigh, like most unbelievers, you can't ever get a straight forward answer. They would rather pussy foot around the subjct with gibberish, I`m assuming to make themselves seem smarter than than they really are.

originally posted by: Dcopymope
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Sigh, like most unbelievers, you can't ever get a straight forward answer. They would rather pussy foot around the subjct with gibberish, I`m assuming to make themselves seem smarter than than they really are.

NON BElIEVER? Of course I am one that is not OF THE DOGMATIC APPROACH. That which is entrenched in DIDACTIC BELIEF SYSTEMS (you of the interstate systems) drop off in enlightenment once you percieve (after death) an escape hatch that you easily slip into, Catholism, Hinduism, Buddism. You will spend another 1000 years getting away from the falsity of belief systems.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Dcopymope
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Sigh, like most unbelievers, you can't ever get a straight forward answer. They would rather pussy foot around the subjct with gibberish, I`m assuming to make themselves seem smarter than than they really are.

NON BElIEVER? Of course I am one that is not OF THE DOGMATIC APPROACH. That which is entrenched in DIDACTIC BELIEF SYSTEMS (you of the interstate systems) drop off in enlightenment once you percieve (after death) an escape hatch that you easily slip into, Catholism, Hinduism, Buddism. You will spend another 1000 years getting away from the falsity of belief systems.

Um, yeah Ok, buddy

a reply to: Dcopymope
Humor Injection Rejection ALERT! complaint (everything I post is true blue) filed; stamped and dated.

originally posted by: Joecroft
Can anybody explain Revelations Chapter 17…???


Ok, where to begin…


In verse 1 we learn that the Woman/Great Whore sits in many “waters”. The waters are confirmed in verse 15 as being the people, the multitudes, and the nations etc…

Whoever or whatever this this Woman/Great Whore represents, the whole world and Kings have become intoxicated with it…(verse 2)…What could this possible be…?

The woman rides in on the Beast, who she presumable works for…does it’s bidding etc…

The Woman/Great Whore is decieving the people and the multitudes, and she works for the beast…And its states in verse 13 that they are all one mind and give their power unto the beast…


Now here’s where it get’s kinda weird…(if it wasn’t already lol)

Revelation 17:16
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Seems like the beast has a good thing going here; (when I say good, I mean from the beasts perspective)…why hate and destroy that which is helping give him power over the people and the nations etc…

Anyone care to explain that one…???


And this next verse is even stranger still…

I’ve highlighted the key parts…

Revelation 17:17
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

There’s a big question looming here, in fact, I’m not even going to type it out, it should be fairly obvious…I’m just going to say…it’s over to you believers…explain away…

In order to understand who the harlot is that rides the beast, it needs to be clarified where the third temple will be built from which the beast will sit and declare himself to be God. When you can identify where the temple will be, then you will know who the woman is spoken of in Revelation 17 that rides the beast, who I show is also referred to as "that great city". Its really not that hard to see who the whore is, all that is required is for reason to prevail, let two plus two equal four, let the Bible speak for itself, and let all men be liars. Yet again, I'll keep it simple for you. It is stated quite clearly that the temple will not be built in America, or Rome, or anywhere else but Israel.

(2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

(Matthew 24:13-21) "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. [14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. [15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. [19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! [20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: [21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

The "holy place" measured, and in location identified to be Israel in Revelation:

(Revelation 11:1-8) "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. [2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. [3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. [4] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. [5] And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. [6] These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. [7] And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. [8] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

(Revelation 17:5-7) "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. [6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. [7] And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns...............

(Revelation 17:17-18) "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. [18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Scripture makes it very clear that the whore that rides the beast, who is referred to as the "great city" from which Apollyon, the beast of the pit will rule, will be Israel. So for anyone's interpretation to even begin to make any kind of logical sense of who the woman is, then the location of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ would have to be somewhere other than Jerusalem, or Golgotha, which was just outside the gates of Israel. The narrative of the story of Jesus Christ would have to be changed, and woe unto them that do, as we know the punishment to be dealt to those who removes and adds onto the words spoken of in the word of God. As it is perfectly understood by most Christians that Jesus Christ was crucified in Israel, then we should just let reason prevail, put two and two together and come to the Occam's razor conclusion that Israel will be the harlot, the "great city" spoken of in Revelation.

a reply to: Dcopymope

There are two women in Revelation, the woman who gives birth to the man child and the whore. Israel can't be both. Reveltion 17/18 is the destruction of Babylon the Great, the whore that rides the beast. Thing is, scripture interprets scripture, Revelation 18 and Isaiah 21 record the fall of this great city, and Isaiah tells you where it is and who God raises up to destroy it.

Elam is Iran and it destroys Dumah, Arabia, Timan, Kedar... Or, the entire land from southern Jordan down the coasts of Saudi Arabia to Yemen.

That "great city", which is in a desert by the sea, is Mecca.

a reply to: Joecroft

Naming is the 'mother' of the ten thousand things.
Prior to naming there is no world - there is just this that is happening.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dcopymope

There are two women in Revelation, the woman who gives birth to the man child and the whore. Israel can't be both. Reveltion 17/18 is the destruction of Babylon the Great, the whore that rides the beast. Thing is, scripture interprets scripture, Revelation 18 and Isaiah 21 record the fall of this great city, and Isaiah tells you where it is and who God raises up to destroy it.

Elam is Iran and it destroys Dumah, Arabia, Timan, Kedar... Or, the entire land from southern Jordan down the coasts of Saudi Arabia to Yemen.

That "great city", which is in a desert by the sea, is Mecca.

Actually Israel throughout scripture was referred to as the harlot many times by the prophets.

(Isaiah 1:21-27) "¶ How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. [22] Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water: [23] Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them. [24] Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies: [25] ¶ And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin: [26] And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city. [27] Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness."

When it speaks of Babylon in Revelation, its not talking about the literal Babylon rising up, neither as a nation or in location. Israel, that "great city" that gave birth to Jesus Christ is compared to Babylon in a spiritual sense just like it was compared to Egypt and Sodom in a spiritual sense. The birth place of Jesus must have been Egypt if I am to accept your interpretation. That great city that is spiritually called Egypt and Sodom where Jesus Christ was crucified must have been not in Israel but in Saudi Arabia, according to you. At no point is there more than one woman spoken of in Revelation, there is only one. I will demonstrate this once again for those who will let reason prevail.

(Revelation 12:1-6) "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. [3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. [5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. [6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

John gets taken into the wilderness to see what becomes of this same woman, who is clearly described as the woman that gave birth to the Lord Jesus Christ:

(Revelation 17:1-5) "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: [2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. [3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. [4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: [5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

For your interpretation to be true, John must be referring to some other woman that was taken into the wilderness, which has no basis in scripture at all. Two plus two equals four, not six.

a reply to: Dcopymope

Well, you have a huge problem. Mystery Babylon the Great will be destroyed in 1 hour and will never be inhabited again. Yet there are 1800 verses in the OT and 300 in the NT that says Jesus will return, and rule and reign in Earth from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem. In your interpretation, that city has to never be inhabited again AND the city where Christ sits and rules from for 1000 years.

A freebie:

a reply to: NOTurTypical

This all seems to go to back your citation of Isaiah 21. This particular prophecy has nothing at all to do with last days prophecy, or the great tribulation, but with the fulfilled prophecy of King Cyrus of Medo-Persia, Iran, defeating once and for all, the Babylonian empire, setting the Jews free for the restoration of Jerusalem. Allow me to demonstrate and let reason prevail.

(Isaiah 13:17-22) "Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. [18] Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. [19] ¶ And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees’ excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. [20] It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. [21] But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. [22] And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged."

(Isaiah 21:1-17) "The burden of the desert of the sea. As whirlwinds in the south pass through; so it cometh from the desert, from a terrible land. [2] A grievous vision is declared unto me; the treacherous dealer dealeth treacherously, and the spoiler spoileth. Go up, O Elam: besiege, o media; all the sighing thereof have I made to cease. [3] Therefore are my loins filled with pain: pangs have taken hold upon me, as the pangs of a woman that travaileth: I was bowed down at the hearing of it; I was dismayed at the seeing of it. [4] My heart panted, fearfulness affrighted me: the night of my pleasure hath he turned into fear unto me. [5] Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise, ye princes, and anoint the shield. [6] For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth. [7] And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed: [8] And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights: [9] And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground. [10] O my threshing, and the corn of my floor: that which I have heard of the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you. [11] ¶ The burden of Dumah. He calleth to me out of Seir, Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night? [12] The watchman said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will enquire, enquire ye: return, come. [13] ¶ The burden upon Arabia. In the forest in Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye travelling companies of Dedanim. [14] The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him that fled. [15] For they fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, and from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war. [16] For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail: [17] And the residue of the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall be diminished: for the LORD God of Israel hath spoken it."

(Isaiah 44:21-28) "¶ Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. [22] I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. [23] Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. [24] Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; [25] That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; [26] That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof: [27] That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers: [28] That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."

(Isaiah 45:1-4) "Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; [2] I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: [3] And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. [4] For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."

Yes indeed, Babylon shall never be inhabited again, because God set it up to be demolished by King Cyrus over a century in advance, and never has returned. Those verses have nothing at all to do with the Mystery Babylon spoken of in Revelation as last days prophecy. They were never even meant to be seen as last days prophecy to begin with. Israel, the woman is referred to as mystery Babylon because it adopts the degenerate religious practices and customs that Babylon once committed, and is therefore referred to as a whore as it was called the many times before for their disobedience.

It is not speaking of a literal Babylon. It is made very clear that the "great city" who is referred as the woman is the same "great city" that the Lord was crucified in. Israel is therefore the woman that flee's to the wilderness that gave birth to Jesus, who later becomes the colorful harlot that rides the beast in Revelation 17. There is no problem with my interpretation, the problem lies with yours. For yours to even begin to make sense, the birth, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ would have to be in Saudi Arabia, so your interpretation falls flat on its face from the start.

a reply to: Dcopymope

Nonsense, Isaiah 21 tells you the places Elam will rise up and destroy of Babylon, look up where Teman, Arabia, Dedan, and Dumah. That's all the western coast of Saudi Arabia from southern Jordan to Yemen. And it doesn't tell Elam to attack Media, Elam and Media is the same area, God says "Go up O Elam, besiege O Media.."

Isaiah 13 says Babylon will never be inhabited again and no Arab will ever pitch it's tent there. THAT NEVER HAPPENED in human history before, Cyrus conquered ancient Babylon without a battle, and Arabs have been inhabiting that area to this day. This judgment has not happened yet, or else the prophecy is unfulfilled. Read Isaiah 13, "the burden of Babylon"..

"IT SHALL NEVER BE INHABITED, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation, neither shall the Arabian pitch it's tent there, neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.." - Isaiah 13:20

Elam/Media is Iran, it will destroy Mystery Babylon as described here and it will never be inhabited again. It will be desolate (nuclear weapons), and this is in the horizon, Iran hates Saudi Arabia and has missles aimed at it.

Link


Your Bible declares many times that Jesus will rule from Mt. Zion, in Judah, on David's throne, Gabriel promised this to Mary specifically. That's Jerusalem. Therefore, you cannot have mystery Babylon both destroyed and never inhabited again from generation to generation and simultaneously have Jesus ruling and reigning from there for 1000 years.

There are two women in Revelation, the woman who gives birth to the man child (Israel) and the whore (Islam) that rides the Beast (10 nation caliphate).

a reply to: Dcopymope

BTW, you didn't even watch the video.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dcopymope

Nonsense, Isaiah 21 tells you the places Elam will rise up and destroy of Babylon, look up where Teman, Arabia, Dedan, and Dumah. That's all the western coast of Saudi Arabia from southern Jordan to Yemen. And it doesn't tell Elam to attack Media, Elam and Media is the same area, God says "Go up O Elam, besiege O Media.."

Isaiah 13 says Babylon will never be inhabited again and no Arab will ever pitch it's tent there. THAT NEVER HAPPENED in human history before, Cyrus conquered ancient Babylon without a battle, and Arabs have been inhabiting that area to this day. This judgment has not happened yet, or else the prophecy is unfulfilled. Read Isaiah 13, "the burden of Babylon"..

"IT SHALL NEVER BE INHABITED, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation, neither shall the Arabian pitch it's tent there, neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.." - Isaiah 13:20

Elam/Media is Iran, it will destroy Mystery Babylon as described here and it will never be inhabited again. It will be desolate (nuclear weapons), and this is in the horizon, Iran hates Saudi Arabia and has missiles aimed at it.

Link

Your Bible declares many times that Jesus will rule from Mt. Zion, in Judah, on David's throne, Gabriel promised this to Mary specifically. That's Jerusalem. Therefore, you cannot have mystery Babylon both destroyed and never inhabited again from generation to generation and simultaneously have Jesus ruling and reigning from there for 1000 years.

There are two women in Revelation, the woman who gives birth to the man child (Israel) and the whore (Islam) that rides the Beast (10 nation caliphate).

Oh I see, you're another of those guys that believe that the beast kingdom will be an Islamic one, now it all makes sense. There is no need to watch your video then. If it takes someone fifty minutes to say what I could have said in ten, then it ain't worth my time. I would rather sit on the porch and enjoy the sun light for an hour then sit in front of a computer and listen to someone telling me that the beast kingdom will be Islamic, I've heard it all before.

Hate to break it you, but when Apollyon sits in the temple and declares himself God, he doesn't just make a covenant with the Jews and Muslims, it states that he makes a covenant with many. He'll neither claim to be just the Jewish messiah or the Imam, but will claim to be many things to many people, magnifying himself not just above the Jewish or Islamic messiah, but above all called God. And as for "mystery Babylon", like I said before, in Revelation we're not talking about a literal Babylon, but of Israel becoming Babylon in spirit, the mother of harlots. Babylon itself will never return. So I don't care what you believe to be the location from which the Lord will rule the nations with a rod of iron. We all know he will rule for 1000 years from Jerusalem, it doesn't prove your point, for just as Jesus will rule from Jerusalem, so to will Apollyon during the Great Tribulation.

a reply to: Dcopymope

Yeah, the antichrsit will confirm the covenant between many nations and Israel, it's a peace covenant between Israel and the surrounding nations. (They're all Arabs/Persian btw)

Apollyon (Satan) is the power behind the man of sin, do me a favor, tell me what you read in Joel chapter 3. Explain how Babylon the Great will be destroyed and never inhabited again and how you reconcile Jerusalem being Babylon the Great with Joel chapter 3.

The 8th empire must be a revival of the 7th empire, and we know who plucked the horn from the 6th empire. That happened in 1453 AD and it suffered a deadly wound in 1924. Gabriel told Daniel that the people of the Primce that shall come (antichrist) will destroy the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD, and we know from history who destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem. 3 or the 4 Roman legions were Arab Roman legions from Assyria (Turkey and Syria).

Ezekiel chapter 28 is a prophecy against the antichrist initially, then goes directly behind him to Satan controlling him, and the antichrist is called the King of Tyre (Lebanon), the same thing happens in Isaiah 14 where Gos prophsyes against the antichrist initially, then Satan who controls him. God there calls him he "King of Babylon" (Iraq/Saudi Arabia). The Buble also calls the antichrist "The Assyrian" (Turkey/Syria/Jordan/Egypt/Iran), and it calls him the "Pharoah of Egypt".

The OT prophecies are clear as a bell where the antichrist will rule from, and the whore is a false religion who rides his 10 nation empire until he destroys it.

Micah 5:2-6 also talks about how Jesus will destroy the antichrist (The Assyrian) when He returns in the Valley of Jehoshephat in northern Israel.

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. 3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. 4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. 5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. 6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dcopymope

Yeah, the antichrsit will confirm the covenant between many nations and Israel, it's a peace covenant between Israel and the surrounding nations. (They're all Arabs/Persian btw)

Daniel never said the covenant is solely between the immediate surrounding nations, only in your mind is it all about the Arabs, because you have it set in your mind that the anti-Christ will be Islamic.

Apollyon (Satan) is the power behind the man of sin, do me a favor, tell me what you read in Joel chapter 3. Explain how Babylon the Great will be destroyed and never inhabited again and how you reconcile Jerusalem being Babylon the Great with Joel chapter 3.

First off, Apollyon and Satan are not one and the same, I don't know where people get this logically inconsistent idea that they are. Satan will not be cast into the bottomless pit until the Lord returns from heaven with his kingdom. The man of sin is described by Paul as the beast who sits in the temple and magnifies himself as God. Apollyon is the beast that rises out of the pit who, by Rev 13, is referred to as that same beast, the little horn boasting of his divinity. So Apollyon, 'the beast', the 'little horn', and the man of sin are all one and the same, who gets his power and authority from Satan. And for Jerusalem, I'm sure you are aware that the Jerusalem that Jesus will rule from will not be the earthly one right? So which one are you referring to? The new one that ascends from heaven or the Jerusalem of earthly origin? There can only be one, so that means the earthly one will cease to exist upon the arrival of the brand spanking new, incorruptible kingdom of God.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

Ezekiel chapter 28 is a prophecy against the antichrist initially, then goes directly behind him to Satan controlling him, and the antichrist is called the King of Tyre (Lebanon), the same thing happens in Isaiah 14 where Gos prophsyes against the antichrist initially, then Satan who controls him. God there calls him he "King of Babylon" (Iraq/Saudi Arabia). The Buble also calls the antichrist "The Assyrian" (Turkey/Syria/Jordan/Egypt/Iran), and it calls him the "Pharoah of Egypt".

The OT prophecies are clear as a bell where the Antichrist will rule from, and the whore is a false religion who rides his 10 nation empire until he destroys it.

(Ezekiel 28:1-2) "The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, [2] Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:"

This King Tyre fella being nothing but a man shoots the idea that this is referring to Apollyon, the beast of revelation, in the foot right out the gates. Apollyon is no mere man, Apollyon is the angel of the bottomless pit, which is a prison designed for angels only. You can't have it both ways, he's either a man, or an angel.

a reply to: Dcopymope

Fine, lets try another approach. You tell me a single western or European nation Christ is judging and destroying when He returns.

And yes, Christ's millennial kingdom is on Earth, Daniel declared that in Daniel 2 when interpreting Nebuchanezzar's dream. The stone cut without hands smashes the statue and grows into a mountain which takes up the entire Earth. And Gabriel told Mary her Son would sit and rule in David's throne.