12000 year old Maliseet camp site found in New Brunswick

a reply to: Caver78

The reason why I am thinking the Beothuk were probably Algonquin was because of the migrating North part .The Algonquin language being so dominating to the west and south it only leave room to the north for any other language as a supply . The Maliseet dialect is Algonquin but it differs and it may have more to do with Geography as the Algonquin languages are geographic in nature . In my id I have Memramcook as a location but it is a Migmaw word for crooked river and the place Memramcook does have a very crooked river .

I live a few miles east of Mactaquac and that word means where the River goes underground .Today there is a large hydro dam there that has about 40 miles of head water ....

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thinking about it there would be good reason to be there for a long time because it is part of the Saint John River Valley and the River being close by for transportation to the coast for summer fun ,fishing and eating was just part of the seasonal routine .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Very interesting!
Most seem to agree the Beothunk are Algonquin. There is just so much mystery surrounding them, I am still on the fence. Did find this while doodling around google. The comment section of the blog was particularly interesting.

Far as my limited knowledge goes, everyone back then was everywhere. LOL! Travel was much more extensive than we are willing to admit. Sorting out who was where and when, much less why is almost like chasing unicorns. It's just me, but pronouncements are made by the established schools of archeology mostly prematurely and without being usually placed into a larger context.

One site here, one site there like each are isolated occurrences.
Population movements were much more fluid and changing than we will grudgingly admit too.

Descendants of Newfoundland’s “extinct” Beothuk live on in Iceland

Now for the really important part:
“Despite the evidence, for now it’s nearly impossible to prove a direct, thousand-year-old genetic link between Native (North) Americans and Icelanders.
“For starters, no living Native (North) American group carries the exact genetic variation found in the Icelandic families.
“But of the many known scattered versions that are related to the Icelandic variant, 95% are found in Native (North) Americans. Some East Asians, whose ancestors are thought to have been the first Americans, carry a similar genetic pattern, though.
“The Inuit, often called Eskimos, carry no version of the variant—a crucial detail, given that Greenland has a native Inuit population.
“Helgason speculates that the precise Icelandic variation may have come from a Native (North) American people that died out after the arrival of Europeans.”

news.nationalgeographic.com...

a reply to: Caver78

Now wouldn't that be funny if true .I just heard on the radio that the top guy in Island is married to a Canadian girl ...round round I get around comes to mind . swap out the cars for Kayak's and Canoes and we have a match .:>)

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

OMYGERD!!!

I should have known you read Dick Shovel!!!!! One of the least known under rated websites EVER!
btw I heartily miss Rick's Twinkies 101 as well.

One of my fav's is still elfshotgallery.blogspot.com...
Once you dig into Tim Rast's post's it gets addictive. While napping is not a skill I possess, the history he includes and archeological information is like "my crack".

( it's sad, I need an intervention)

Last year I got the privilege of scraping a fresh a bear skin with a 4 inch flint. Once you get the hand motion right it was shockingly easy! Actually it was difficult not to get overenthusiastic an take off too much. Best afternoon I've had in a LONG time!! The wood scrapers with imbedded shell were more difficult.

Thanks for the link, the site is fantastic.

Those are the best recreations of the harpoon like fore shaft technology I have yet to see.
If I am correct in my own personal theory, it is a blending of two different techniques, from two very different peoples.
Anyone who has read my posts on this subject knows I have gone on and on about the Witt preClovis/Clovis site in central cal.
The site is a fresh water mussel shell midden on the west shore of the ancient Tulare lake. On the surface was one of the finest collections of Clovis lithics, deeper in the midden was a human femur dating to 17kya, at this level and below there were no lithics, only bone and antler tools.
Then there is a pre clovis9(14.5kya?) mammoth kill site in washington, its name escapes me at the moment, and here too there are no stone points, only antler and bone.
And at many of these early sites single bevel bone and ivory rods are found, and current theory thinks they are fore shafts, in line with what is on the site you linked to.
But I think at first the rods were actually the points themselves, think about it, mammoth hide is extremely thick and many of the stone point types would have been extremely fragile and easily dislodged from the shaft. They would have broken easily, which is exactly what we see at the early kill site, lots of broken point and reworked points, or dislodged after the first couple of strikes. Now a long slender ivory or bone point would pierce the tough hide much deeper into muscle or organ tissue before hitting the hafting material, causing a much more devastaing injury, and could be more easily withdrawn for another strike.
If you look at the spears that current african hunter gatheres use to kill elephant, that is exactly what you see, long slender wood or bone points.

The popular image of ice age hunters engaged in a heroic struggle against a rearing mammoth is romanticised BS, that style of hunting would be far to dangerous for a small group population, you could easily lose most of the able bodied men in a single hunt. I think it would more likely that they would ambush the animal, quickly stabbing it deeply several times each then back off and let nature do its thing, which is exactly how moder bow hunting works, you shoot the animal and the arrow penetrates deeply causing internal hemmoraging and you follow it till it dies from blood loss.

And i also belive that those thick bodied Mesa, Sluiceway and Nenana complex points, that your source uses as examples, are derived from south american points that were brougth north by back migrating people.

a reply to: Caver78

That Icelandic MtDna haplo group C is too ancient and divergent to have come from native americans, and is found in very ancient 7kya northern european burials, and is likely a holdover from ancient european populations who were derived from ancient native american back migrations.

nother Old World C1 lineage, namely C1e, has recently popped up not in Siberia or East Asia where American Indians are thought to have originated, but in Icelanders (Ebenesersdóttir et al. 2011. “A new subclade of mtDNA haplogroup C1 found in Icelanders: Evidence of pre-Columbian contact?” Am J Phys Anthropol 144, 92-99). (Comp. the occurrence of some Sinodonty dental traits in Icelanders.) Its phylogenetic proximity to the Amerindian clades and the physical proximity of Iceland to the New World via the Atlantic invoked recent (past 1000 years) admixture from a New World population to the Norse as an explanation. It’s important that neither in the case of C1a, nor in the case of C1e researchers hesitate to postulate an Amerindian origin for these Old World branches of C1. The recent origin of C1e in Iceland, however, can hardly withstand close scrutiny because hg C is not found in the Inuits with whom the Vikings might have interacted around 10th century AD. Additionally, C1 was reported in Germans, Canarians, Indians and Bashkirs (these sequences lack np 16356 HVR-I diagnostic of the sub-clades C1a and np 16051 HVR-I diagnostic of C1d) further reinforcing the impression that it’s an old European clade driven into obscurity by either selection or massive population replacements.

The discovery of a new clade of C1, C1f, in a Mesolithic site in northwestern Russia suggests that C1e is of ancient origin and connects Siberian C1a with Icelandic C1e to form a Circumpolar/Circumpacific chain of C1 attestations going back to at least the Early Holocene. Der Sarkisssian offers a nice map showing the breadth of the distribution of hg C1.

YUZHNYI OLENII OSTROV: ANCIENT MTDNA EVIDENCE FOR AMERINDIAN ADMIXTURE IN EUROPE


This kind of stuff is also my crack

a reply to: punkinworks10

Glad you liked the ElfShot site.
If you keep reading backwards ( older posts) it's AWESOME!!!

I forgot to link the Blog I got the Beothunk DNA info from, so color me VERY pink faced! The comment section was fascinating.

blogs.canoe.com...

a reply to: Caver78

Thank you very much for the link to the Icelandic connection .Its a great read and I am heading back to the comment section now . ....peace