Let's Discuss Time Travel

a reply to: Privy_Princess

There's all kinds of paradoxes involved in backwards time travel but several methods have been proposed for going forward. There's also a theory that sending information backwards in time (but not matter) is doable. I remember reading a paper some months back that found particles existing in different spans of time having quantum entanglement. Then it was suggested that we could use the LHC as a receiver for this type of information.

It does make me wonder if that's an experiment we'll ever carry out. We might be 50 years away from radio like communication with the past or future but I'm pretty sure that much is possible.

Moving matter rather than information is much more complex.

a reply to: Aazadan

Agreed. Perhaps only non physical objects can move in time. By their very nature bodies and physical forms might be excluded.

One thing about time travel that I think I have figured out, and that is time is personal. Even though we can talk about it like it is an objective thing, we really only experience it subjectively. Which is why if I managed to travel back in time and kill my own grandfather it wouldn't make any difference to me because I already exist and the continuation of my perception of moving forward in time would just include the killing of my grandfather and anything that happened after that -- not before.

Anyway, one of the things that makes mathematics an inferior representation of reality is that it's terrible at accounting for the different points of view of every individual. It's also not that great at dealing with infinity paradoxes, such as what you get when you divide an infinite line up into two lines by putting a point on it, only to end up with two infinite lines extending away from the point. We're talking about practical, everyday multi-dimensionality.

So time travel essentially comes down to perception. You are where (and when) you are because that's what you perceive. If you somehow managed to perceive sometime or somewhere else, then that is where and when you would be.

originally posted by: sycomix
a reply to: chr0naut

It is no worse a theory than any other proposed, nobody knows for sure how time works, we only know/think that is is linked in space. I could be wrong, but so could everyone else. No sense in not exploring an idea. How else would you find out if it worked or not?

Time is a spatial dimension, a function of the universe, and the rate of passage of time is affected by gravitational mass and relative velocity. Einstein's General Theory of Relativity describes it fully.

One second of time is equivalent to 299,792,458 meters along the temporal axis of spacetime. Give that, and its implications, some consideration. We can substitute a distance into every equation that involves time!

Gravitation measurably dilates time. This has been proven many times by many methods which have verified Einstein's equations with agreement to exact measured values.

One particular experiment was to synchronize two atomic clocks and then raise and then lower one of them by a significant distance. This then subjects the raised clock to a lower gravitational field. The clocks are then compared and raised and lowered clock proves to have run slower than the other one.

Also, the reversal of time does not proceed as imagined. Consider a gas dispersing according to Brownian Motion, there are equations to describe that. If you place a negative number in the place of the time value in such equations, the gas still disperses! The genie does not go back into the bottle, so to speak. Negative time does not rewind the film.

There are also solutions for Einstein's equations which allow for 'looped' time. As such, travel to the past, within a loop, is possible.

Since all of this is just energy and matter in a constant state of flux, some order and some chaos some periods of matter conglomeration last longer in their many varied forms and combinations.

Time travel is always occuring from one state of change to the next... the only thing solid about any of it is memory access of a previous frame of reference. Time travel can be created in nostaligia and reproduction of materials or make ups of various states of matter like a factory as complicated as a human ear that was from a previous form under current standard or form of it, or something as simple as clothing design.

The only way to step outside of all of this is to dump ones grasp of permanence that there isnt constant change and flux moving at innummerable iterations.

The only way to travel back in time other than that is across space itself in areas not filled with form. The only way to do that when filled with form is to be able to shrink whatever data packet of particles down or stretch a data packet open so the data packet of particles can pass through... time is not linear in either direction all of it is occuring all at the very same time, certian bits of data or particulate have affinities of various sorts and recominbinate to such affinites.

This is why there are resident hauntings... somes energy had or has a very strong affinity to a particular place. Some of this energy is just caught as a repeated loop like a tape as the shedding of energy is at a constant rate known as change yet the trail unless disipated from such affinities becomes attached and run the same courses over and over... no different than getting up everyday and doing similiar to the previous day unaware of much going on except the data exchange between all of these energies and this exchange gives the illusion of a future as the particulate ebbs and flows... but its more expands and deflates like elastic.

When such a system devolps a large black hole the matter or flux has a sort of statis due to the large conglomerate of masses the more mass the more the effect of particle exchange and decay... this is why time seems to slow down or travel back in time when looking at great distances, the light particles bend, relfect, and refract off of all of these various conglomerates at various vectors.

There are numerious black holes between each particle grouping we call empty space even though it isnt... the tunneling through such particles is called a worm hole and can be achieved by knowing the course of entanglement from one point to another and calculating a route along such grouping of vectors.

When we see any particle as a single point or focus or pixelation there is an end point of it we do not see on the other end.

So everywhere we look its's billions of dots like this . no different than looking at an old TV or closing ones eyes and noticing all the tiny tiny dots that look no different than being in space with not particle mass. So seeing all of this we see is like a grouping of fiber optics innumerable points all laying out on front of ones perspective, sending out various wave lengths or wiggle in their entanglement all the way to their origin like telegraph lines with points entanglements and crossings all inbetween and interconnected through out the intire universe like a fabric of these threads in length, width, and depth that expands out from a single point in all directions yet with no discernable begining point... except through our own chosen chronology of attachment or affinities.

Ceasing such affinities of unbinding one becomes no different than the entire universe or fabric itself... however such a thing is not as easy as it seems as there is always some sort of fuel a particle mass or group from elements to animals have out of habituation or preference. We can manipulate the affinities of matter and energy in both... or release it in both at very rudimentary levels at this point in time all have agreed on as that current time and space for which all of these attachments or bindings take place.

There is some order to all of this apparent chaos of attachment but it is chosen by attachment groups or affinities one has taken as consciousness when it is simply a self chosen preference and other controlled preference under that gravity or particle mass constraint that binds us in to a conceptual reality unaware of this other described always occuring. The stronger ones affinity for something the more it pulls or frees from this entire flux or occurance and agreed interactions and natural interactions of the entire particle mass swapping energy of various matures and various particles of that entanglement of chosen and unchosen affinities.

Of course some of these entangelments are chosen and some not chosen due to an energy mass animated by form or under the illusion of the image being anything other than an ever changing mass of particles in a constant flux... that one believes or percieves to exist when it is just form yet essentially empty except for such groupings and causality of various attached energies that give rise and perpetuate the entire mass in a conglomerate of memory attachments and affinites by labels and concept from such contact instead of actual contact that does not label by eye, ear, nose, or taste and then sort them into various affinites of such perception taken as solid permanent and lasting except by the very nature of its always being in a constant state of flux. When none of the contact by the senses need to have any label whatsoever, when one ceases labeling then the entire illusion falls apart...

The it is respawned by the entire conglomerates memory of it not oneself... in such a state one can be a single particle or all space. Such an attainment is akin to Buddhahood or awakening. Of course once one is free then one is still bound by such attachment to particle masses so one sort of sits and waits out ones time as all of the others bonds and attachments run their course... instead of experiencing being an ever changing part of the whole and no differetation or attachment of it called nirvana.

So either science the above mentioned rotely or attain Buddhahood.

a reply to: Privy_Princess
everyone should watch that show '11.22.63' its purty interesting, and if there is time travel, I wouldn't doubt if it happen similar to how this show depicts it.

originally posted by: ware2010
a reply to: Privy_Princess
everyone should watch that show '11.22.63' its purty interesting, and if there is time travel, I wouldn't doubt if it happen similar to how this show depicts it.

That show gives a nasty and somehow human reality to time. I think personally that if time has a personality, it wouldnt be humanlike

.

a reply to: Jonjonj
good point, i change my view

originally posted by: Blue Shift
One thing about time travel that I think I have figured out, and that is time is personal. Even though we can talk about it like it is an objective thing, we really only experience it subjectively. Which is why if I managed to travel back in time and kill my own grandfather it wouldn't make any difference to me because I already exist and the continuation of my perception of moving forward in time would just include the killing of my grandfather and anything that happened after that -- not before.

The usual explanation to the grandfather paradox is multiverse theory. Let me propose a scenario for you, what if there is a very large but finite number of universes and they all exist in frozen states, one for every configuration. What we perceive as time is simply moving from a dimension with one universe configuration to another in a logical pattern. Much like a movie, it consists of millions of slides that move from one position to another in order to create a sense of motion and audio.

In this case there should be a universal state (many, actually) that exist 50 years in the past where your grandfather is still alive. You could move to that universal frame which actually exists simultaneously with yours and kill your grandfather. That frame will then follow down a different path of universal states, but if you return to your original frame it will go down the same path it would have otherwise.

originally posted by: Aazadan
The usual explanation to the grandfather paradox is multiverse theory.

Well, as I've said, there is no multiverse, because it's all personal. There is only one universe, which is the one I'm looking at from inside my head with my own eyeballs. And when I die, the universe will end. At least my participation in it, anyway, which is the only thing that matters.

There's no way to objectively step back and look at a variety of universes, because they'll all be hypothetical except one -- the one you're experiencing right now. You have to be in a universe for it to exist, and you only get one.

a reply to: Privy_Princess

Lets discuss time travel' Took an hour to drive from Birmingham to Warwick Castle once.

a reply to: Aazadan

This is the ghost or resident haunting of energy or particles trying to reform itself instead of recombine into a new form mentioned in my previous post. The entity could be one particle in size or a conglomerate as it attempts to recombine itself into what it once was... no harm in doing such but it takes an extremely long amount of time for all of those particles one has ever trailed out while alive and ends up as a projection or thought form when encountered... so it's easier to just detach entirely skip the entire process and let the universe recombine as it sees fit due to such affinities or attachments... if ones attachments are negative in nature then many times they require harvesting positive energy to continue recombining their energy instead of letting go and being a creative force knowing the state they exist in instead of attachment ungappy with the state they are attached in.

We do this in unawareness even when still alive so ceasing such makes the dissolustion in traying to recombine process longer and more painful or more at ease in acceptance and developing as much positive energy fields that theres a lot more to spare... of course when surrounded by such energy needing that positive wavw for fuel it can become quite exhausting without mediatation or oneness with the source like a battery recharging eventually its like remaining plugged in and no so bad as previously experienced.

a reply to: pavmas

Thats simply an experience of relativity beyond rote understanding... this experience can be harnessed to freeze oneself in a statis or the other end you experienced but I do not suggest attaching to it as controlling it becomes a siddhi or super natural power that can lead to attachment to it and into extremes of abuse... of course awareness of it in objectivity and not a subject to it in attachment of belief then one remains free from it... one of those sow a seed reap a habit things if not kept in balance.

Thank you everybody for your responses. This is a very exciting topic we have going on here and lots of great minds weighing in.

So I guess the next question would then be, IF time travel is a reality (hypothetically speaking) and there are in fact people/things/entities who can and do travel through time, what exactly is their purpose?

Is it for mere fun and games (because they can?), are they trying to send us a message or make themselves known to us (that's an interesting theory, jonjonj!), or is there something sinister behind it? Maybe they want to erase something important in our history that we desperately need to hang on to?

As with everything else in history, there is usually two sides to every story so I would assume there are some time travelers who do so for the good of mankind, whereas there are probably some who do so for malevolent reasons.

Maybe that's why we have so much confusion. Maybe there is a covert war going on. A war on our past. And we don't even know about it. lol That would be something.

This is all hypothetically speaking, of course.

a reply to: Privy_Princess
Advanced Artificial intelligence technology can time travel-
If something is built now with future interest in mind it can constantly update itself to track technologies advancing associated with time travel.
As it's doing so eventually when in the future the technology is discovered it will automatically kick back data to its original intelligence. This then allows the time technology in this current time field to be updated from the future ADVANCED AUTONOMOUS ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE or A.A.A.I sporadically. It seems there needs to remain a existing component from now till the discovery of time jump tech. In future, maybe like internet... As the future may not even have current www like web access but may have use of its future components which allow consistent time link conduit... Unless beings can learn data conversion of energy to turn themselves into temporary information to hop time using this discussed method only A.I. Or advanced bots OR Avatars would be able to hop back and forth why maintaining memory...

Isn't there a belief that the second law of thermodynamics creates an arrow of time that is one way.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

And that's a good argument for what time travelers may actually be as we see them: avatars.

It could be the traveler's spirit force / soul or whatever you'd like to call it being able to detach itself from one avatar in one time or dimension and basically formlessly channel surf through time and space until it reaches another point in time and space it would like to visit. Much like a ghost would do, I guess. Then when reaching the destination in time, it would have another avatar to use. Possibly identical if they wanted it that way, but there would have to be an avatar for each time period, that is if matter cannot travel through time.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Privy_Princess

We can change the rate of our passage through time.

true but it is extremely hazardous to lifeforms, if time changes are dramatic enough

originally posted by: roadgravel
Isn't there a belief that the second law of thermodynamics creates an arrow of time that is one way.

I feel that there is a mathematical reason that we haven't discovered yet, that gives directionality (partial visibility) to the time dimension and invisibility to higher dimensions.

To me, the higher dimensions being curled smaller than the planck length is an inelegant fudge, causing more issues than it explains and it gives no explanation to the arrow of time.

If dimensional rules apply they must be uniform across all dimensional axes. To have 'special cases' without cause, invalidates the whole paradigm.