I Was A Professional 9/11 Truther (And I Gave It Up)

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Just answer #7. Cant? i thought so.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Just answer #7. Cant? i thought so.

First show me a source that shows it was the longest fire

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Exactly. That goes back to my main point. You don't have a clue. As a result those who believe in conspiracy theories fill in the blanks.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Exactly. That goes back to my main point. You don't have a clue. As a result those who believe in conspiracy theories fill in the blanks.

No I so have a clue.

If you make a statement of fact in a factual debate then I expect you to provide a source otherwise your statement might as well be toilet paper for all its worth

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You have a clue but you are not capable of answering any of my questions? That's fine. It doesn't bother me.

It supports my conclusion that conspiracy theorist are able to gain so much credibility because people don't have a clue.

There is actually a very obvious and easy explanation for #7. Amazing that no one seems to know it.

Like most I have dabbled in and out this conspiracy for years now. I have just come to the conclusion that it is similar to JFK conspiracy and I think it will go the way of it. First the OS seems too simple and I don't think either events were anything but simple. JFK conclusion: single lone wolf kills JFK. 911 - 19 terrorists with box cutters take over 4 planes, crash into three buildings and two of the largest buildings on the planet topple. For expediency the government needs to tell us a simple version because the alternative will cause a halt in the country. What I know is I feel both periods after the events changed America- Vietnam escalated and the war on terror escalated. I am not saying these events intentionally caused the outcomes but I can say a complicated long drawn out investigation would handcuff the government so we get simple story. They leave the details to sites like this and we get to exercise our brains with analyzing extraordinary events. But that's about the extent of it.

a reply to: cuckooold

BUT THE 9/11 COMMISSION SHOWED THAT SEPTEMBER 11TH WAS A REAL TERRORIST ATTACK, RIGHT?

Whether or not you believe that governments carry out "false flag" terror, you might reasonably assume that the 9/11 Commission investigated September 11th, and concluded that Osama Bin Laden and his group of terrorists were solely responsible.

Unfortunately, a quick look at the government's investigations reveals that -- not only has there never been a real investigation -- but the behavior of government representatives in willfully obstructing all attempts at investigation comprises evidence of guilt. Specifically, in all criminal trials, evasiveness, obstruction, and destruction of evidence all constitute strong circumstantial evidence that the accused is guilty or, at the very least, not to be believed. 9/11 is no different.

For example, the former director of the FBI says there was a cover up by the 9/11 Commission.

And the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials lied to the Commission, and considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements, yet didn't bother to tell the American people (free subscription required).

Indeed, the co-chairs of the Commission now admit that the Commission largely operated based upon political considerations.

9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ."

9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"

Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up".

The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission, who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry, said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

But let's back up and look at the 9/11 Commission in more detail. Preliminarily, President Bush and Vice-President Cheney took the rare step of personally requesting that congress limit all 9/11 investigation solely to "intelligence failures", so there has never been a congressional probe into any of the real issues involved.

The administration also opposed the creation of a 9/11 commission. Once it was forced, by pressure from widows of 9-11 victims, to allow a commission to be formed, the administration appointed as executive director an administration insider, whose area of expertise is the creation and maintenance of "public myths" thought to be true, even if not actually true, who was involved in pre-9/11 intelligence briefings, and who was one of the key architects of the "pre-emptive war" doctrine. This executive director, who controlled what the Commission did and did not analyze, then limited the scope of the Commission's inquiry so that the overwhelming majority of questions about 9/11 remained unasked (see this article and this article).

www.911proof.com...

This evidence alone is one of the main reasons I do not believe in the Official narratives of 911, and the fact is, there was no investigation done about 911.

The 911 Commissioners where stone walled in every direction. Talk about a major government cover up, this is proof enough for me.

a reply to: rustydog

Didn't look like any plane crash I've ever saw, but in the grand scheme of things I haven't saw that many plane crashes. But I still believe the perpetrators of this were planning on that crashed object crashing into WTC 7, which was then pro demo'ed, tho no plane struck it. I will Google Iron Mountain fit 93, but I'd imagine that's well covered if true, never heard this tho, thx.

So how many planes crashes have you been to ....??

That is what things look like after hitting ground at 575 mph

Google PSA 1771 - it hit ground supersonic - wreckage was pulverized

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Like i said above something i find interesting is why people believe 9/11 conspiracies.

This person in this case is willing to listen and be educated by others - when architects showed him the plans and explained how building was constructed, demolition experts who explained the difficulty of wiring a building up, etc

Most truthers suffer from personality issues which leads them to reject any explanation except those which they have bought into

Ever notice they how they keep bringing up same old arguments no matter how often someone will try to
give them the correct information and explain the flaws in their thinking......

a reply to: TheSorrow

1.How was the Pentagon hit 80 minutes after the attacks began? An Air Force Base was 10 miles away.

2. How did the VERY novice terrorist execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon?

6. Why did the BBC report the destruction of WTC7 BEFORE its demise? How did they know it "fell" while it was still standing?

7. Why were the buildings the longest structural fire in recorded history? Even with millions of gallons of water being poured on top of the side it was the longest burning structural fire ever recorded.

1) It was 51 minutes (846 WTC 1, 937 Pentagon), Also airbase has to be right type of base, ie one for fighter aircraft,
planes have to be armed, fueled and with pilots on standby. On 911 were only 14 aircraft at 7 bases in entire Continental US

Takes time to haul munitions from bunkers, load them on A/c and to round up and brief pilots

2 Simple answer - because they PRACTICED IT ! Hijackers took lessons in jet simulators, Pentagon pilot Hani Hanjour had
his logbook signed off by instructor as completing "TIGHT TURNS"

6 BBC reported destruction of WTC 7 because were quoting garbled reports from Reuters who in turn got it from local
radio station - 3PM FDNY established collapse zone at WTC 7 and abandoned operations there because of problems with structural integrity - a 3 story bulge was seem at one corner of building

7 What water was poured on buildings ? Fire were on 94 floor and above (North Tower), 78 to 85 South - hose streams dont
reach 1000 ft up. You need Firefighters to reach the fire floors and connect up hoses to standpipes in stairways
A/C impacts had destroyed the plumbing need to move water up the standpipes So even if reached fire floors would have
found ne water

a reply to: firerescue

I can't believe you're wasting your time on this stuff. It happened a long time ago. Let it go. Begin the healing process

a reply to: cuckooold

The truest statement in your OP is this

I don't hope to change the mind of anyone,

because I doubt you did

The problem is that the investigation did not take place properly, as most of the physical evidence was destroyed without documentation or examination.

a reply to: monkeyluv

Not true. (Apart from the bit about an inadequate investigation.)

The majority of the physical evidence is in the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island, awaiting examination.

The average particle size indicates extraordinary demolition.

We only have assertions that the majority of the steel was shipped abroad. No major evidence of that as far as I'm aware.

The steel that disappeared must be in the cloud of dust, which was big enough to be seen with the naked eye from the space station.

How the steel became dust is a bit of a mystery to me.

How the concrete etc.became dust is described here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: cuckooold

This evidence alone is one of the main reasons I do not believe in the Official narratives of 911, and the fact is, there was no investigation done about 911.

The 911 Commissioners where stone walled in every direction. Talk about a major government cover up, this is proof enough for me.

The truth is that there was a battle among two opposing fractions of the secret government in America, over the plans for the future of the nation.

The signal we got, as outsiders, was the date 911 == EMERGENCY, and The Twin Towers representing the "PILLARS" of "JACHIN and BOAZ" being taken down. That told us that this war was going on at the FREEMASONIC Level of the hierarchy of the secret government.

America attacked itself.

It wasn't a "false flag".

It was a real battle, with real individuals, with differing political views. It just occurred in the hidden world that cowans are not allowed to peer into, so that the public news stories had to spin the events as something else.

As a result of this war, the first Black man was allowed to become president of these United States.

A "Seal" was broken. What most people referred to as the mysterious invisible "glass ceiling" that prevents this or that person from rising any higher in society, is really a "seal" on the level of hidden things. Those who control who can do what, in reality, while all are allowed to "dream", decided that the Presidency of America would now become open to all persons who are citizens.

Obviously, some people didn't like that idea, and many still do not. But, the "seal" is broken. The land is now free for all. There is no more conspiracy to hold back any individual because of their personal characteristics, or member of any group. This was a big deal. Since, the architecture of the previous socio-economic environment gave advantage and privileges to some at the expense of others, and so certain people lost their advantages. They were not happy.

The previous Civil War in America had only determined that the slaves would be freed from bondage, but not that they would be made "equal" in all respects. So, while openly all men were free, in the secret world, there were still controls over what each person could do.

Unfortunately, although this new battle was won by one side, and has set the course for the future of the nation, the other side is still "simmering" over the defeat. After the battle was over, they tried to "steal a nuclear weapon", secretly transporting the nuclear warhead from one state to another, but were caught in the act, and the news media put out the "spin story" that it was just an error. The pilot didn't know he had nuclear warheads on his plane. Yea, right.


So, you see, all these things are just the manifestations of the hidden workings of the secret government, which, because it is supposed to be a secret, cannot directly tell the people what they are doing. The people have to read the signs themselves. The secret government, although operates in secrecy, openly leaves "symbols" describing what they are doing, so that the educated cowans can "read the news" and understand the developments.

a reply to: Kester

How the concrete etc.became dust is described here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

So you use a conspiracy site as evidence ?

"Your honor I can prove my testimony."
"How?"
"Because I said so."

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Kester

How the concrete etc.became dust is described here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

So you use a conspiracy site as evidence ?

"Your honor I can prove my testimony."
"How?"
"Because I said so."

No. That should read a little differently.

"Your honor I can prove my testimony."
"How?"
"Look here, it says so right on ATS!"

a reply to: AMPTAH

The truth is that there was a battle among two opposing fractions of the secret government in America, over the plans for the future of the nation.

The signal we got, as outsiders, was the date 911 == EMERGENCY, and The Twin Towers representing the "PILLARS" of "JACHIN and BOAZ" being taken down. That told us that this war was going on at the FREEMASONIC Level of the hierarchy of the secret government.


It was a real battle, with real individuals, with differing political views. It just occurred in the hidden world that cowans are not allowed to peer into, so that the public news stories had to spin the events as something else.

You are reading too much into this.
Secret factions trying to control the country/government is over the top.
You should unwind your spring a bit.

At our root all human behavior is self serving.
Every thing I do is for my own interest(s).
Even when I donate money, I do it to make myself feel better.
Because of this self serving behavior world domination can never take place.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: AMPTAH

At our root all human behavior is self serving.
Every thing I do is for my own interest(s).
Even when I donate money, I do it to make myself feel better.
Because of this self serving behavior world domination can never take place.

Everything "you" do may indeed be for your own interests.

But, I can assure you that there are people with different motivations who walk this earth.

There are people from time to time who do dominate. There were Pharaohs, and Kings, and even Tyrants, who walked the earth before. There were individuals like Genghis Khan who did try to subdue the whole world, at least that part of it known to him at the time, and dominate it to his will.

These individuals always think of themselves as having a "higher purpose", than the common man.

The United States Government, was even founded on the principle that such people do exist, and hence the founding fathers deliberately introduced the "separation of powers", normally held by the King, and wrote it into the Constitution, so that the three would be separate: Legislature, Executive, Judiciary. That was so that no one man could get the 3 powers again, and rule like a tyrant.

But, the founding fathers never envisioned the emergence of an entity like the NSA, that could bypass all these rules.

The world always produces Pharaohs, and Kings, and Tyrants. They don't need to operate openly. But, to operate at all, in the modern world, they need some type of secret order to to do their will. So, we know where we will find them. And as we see more powers being transferred from the Open Government of elected officials, to the more Secretive Government of unelected officials, we can pin-point their likely locations in the hierarchy of the ruling order.

We may not know who they are today, since they no longer dress up and parade about the streets to let everybody know they are King. But, that there are Kings doing battle behind the scenes is pretty obvious, when you read the news today.

The problem with being a King in the modern world, is that too many people are educated and intelligent. So, they can effectively oppose your views, "if they know what you're about." To rule as King openly, you need people who are uneducated, and unintelligent. But, the most productive people, that can serve the King, are the educated and intelligent. As the bible says,

"If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct." -- KJV, Ecclesiastes 10:10

To have the most powerful Kingdom on Earth, therefore, the King needs the wisest men of the earth, to help with the work, but these very men are the most problematic to rule over, as many a King in Europe have discovered over the centuries. Therefore, they must believe that there is no King, and think to themselves that they are free of tyrants, and then the Tyrant can rise and rule over them all.

The problem comes in, of course, when there are "two" or more hidden Kings, vying for control over the same state.

That's why every state only has 1 Grand Master. Or, 2 where there is separation of Black and White.

There's no need to read into thing's, every hidden thing is visible to anyone who cares to look, because regardless of any hidden motives and actions, all things produce "manifestations" in the world that we can see.

911 was certainly a great catalyst, but the truth of how the towers fell was secondary to the fact that, as someone who watched the 2nd tower fall, went down to ground zero and lived close enough to smell the site for weeks, by 2005 I got seriously ill from the exposure to toxicity there.

What that did was force me to find ways to heal myself from issues modern medicine does not officially have cures for. They do not understand how the body really is energy and our thoughts and beliefs, our environment, all dictate how the body functions…. In the end, I detoxed at a center set up for fire and rescue workers and after 18 days of taking increasing doses of niacin (flush the cells), potassium, iodine, walnut and other oils… and sweating out the toxins… replace…sweat … repeat…

I was completely healed of every issue and I was not the only one; I saw lots of other guys sweat out so much toxicity on their towels the cotton was literally blue or red …

so now I had a major problem: how could the medical community and most of what I knew at the time, be so wrong and misinformed about health? Sure, you can always explain things by who has something to gain, who makes the money… but there was something much bigger going on and eventually, after years of research and cross-referencing of history, archeology, biology, Biblical scholarship, world religions and shamanism etc, I came to understand that there really is evil here, there really is a supernatural force moving and influencing world events and always has been…


Conclusion: the free will creation we are in requires consequences. God is in charge of the consequences… Jesus Christ is the one and only truth. The rest is just not seeing the forest for the trees. Explain 911 all you want, but ultimately it is a consequence of godlessness.


Benjamin Franklin
stood and addressed the Continental Congress with these words: "In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for divine protection. Our prayers, sir, were heard and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor....Have we now forgotten this powerful friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?
I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"


“To the kindly influence of Christianity, we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys.”
“In proportion, as the genuine effects of Christianity are diminished in any nation, either through unbelief, or the corruption of its doctrines, in the same proportions will the people of the nation recede from the blessings of genuine freedom and approximate the miseries of complete despotism.”

--Samuel Morse, inventor of Morse Code



"History matters because human beings matter; human beings matter because creation matters; creation matters because the creator matters. And the creator, according to some of the most ancient Jewish beliefs, grieved so much over creation gone wrong, over humankind in rebellion, over thorns and thistles and dust and death, that he planned from the beginning the way by which he would rescue his world, his creation, his history, from its tragic corruption and decay; the way, therefore, by which he would rescue his image-bearing creatures, the muddled and rebellious human beings, from their doubly tragic fate; the way, therefore, by which he would be most truly himself, would become most truly himself. The story of Jesus of Nazareth offers itself, as Jesus himself had offered his public work and words, his body and blood, as the answer to this multiple problem: the arrival of God’s kingdom precisely in the world of space, time, and matter, the world of injustice and tyranny, of empire and crucifixions. This world is where the kingdom must come, on earth as it is in heaven. What view of creation, what view of justice, would be served by the offer merely of a new spirituality and a one-way ticket out of trouble, an escape from the real world?
No wonder the Herods, the Caesars and the Sadducees of this world, ancient and modern, were and are eager to rule out all possibility of actual resurrection. They are, after all, staking a counter-claim on the real world. It is the real world that the tyrants and bullies (including the intellectual tyrants and bullies) try to rule by force, only to discover that in order to do so they have to quash all rumours of resurrection, rumours that would imply that their greatest weapons, death and deconstruction, are not after all omnipotent. But it is the real world, in Jewish thinking, that the real God made, and still grieves over. It is the real world that, in the earliest stories of Jesus’ death and resurrection, was decisively and forever reclaimed by that event, an event which demanded to be understood, not as a bizarre miracle, but as the beginning of a new creation."
“Jesus’s resurrection is the beginning of God’s new project not to snatch people away from earth to heaven but to colonize earth with the life of heaven. That, after all, is what the Lord’s Prayer is about.”
― N.T. Wright