The Genesis Paradox

The "helper" created by God is a person having a conscience with connectiveness to their heart (rib). The "helper" is in women too. Genesis is a spiritual awakening inside people which can and is applied and occurring to this day.

Eating of the forbidden tree is doing wrong and denying/lying about what is right/good; going against conscience after a spiritual awakening.

Then Jesus Christ came and sent the "helper" with fire. This is beyond searing conscience it is so holy, true and pure.

What more does it take? The only unforgivable sin is said to be denying the helper/friend.

originally posted by: troubleshooter
Do you really need to understand all the consequences of an action before obeying a direct command?

- One need not understand anything to obey a direct command, and
- One cannot know all the consequences of an action ahead of time.

But, while it's possible to conjoin ignorance with obedience, it's certainly not necessary.
Ignorant obedience and informed obedience are both possible.

God created Adam and Eve with the capacity to make informed decisions,
then commanded them not to exercise that capacity. Why?

More bluntly, why create intelligent thinking beings and insist that they remain stupid?

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

OMG....you are awesome....and I'm assuming a woman.

I'm not female, but it's quite a generous compliment. Thanks.

a reply to: birdxofxprey

👍

The script, as it stands, reeks of deception...defying the best pat explanation that gavage can buy.

Jenny is the perfect place to start - ignore the arisen questions in those first chapters, and the rest makes sense - in other words, suspend rationality (assuming the supreme intelligence of the being at the core of the narrative) and any, and all excuses can be made on behalf of It.

These first chapters set the scene for the final battle scene...a script worthy of any Holywood blockbuster.

...funny thing is...if you remove the fiction of scapegoatery, and its created characters - thier influence etc. etc. etc...the paradigm sounds less like Christianity, and more like Buddhism...that just wouldn't be kosher though 😉

Å99

a reply to: KingPhilipsiX

YHWH is the foot stool of the Way. I don't think that the Christians even know their beliefs on him. They are his little toy soldiers.

Sad indeed. I now understand why you are not a Christian.

a reply to: Jim Scott

Sin is disobedience to the commandments of God. Eve never knew God that we can be sure of, and was relying on the word of Adam. When the serpent touched the fruit of the tree, she could see that it was a lie that she had been told by Adam. Therefore, the lie of Adam, while not intended to be evil, opened the door for evil to enter the Garden and tempt the woman. It was not her fault, in a sense, but the fault of both Adam and Eve, therefore the sin is shared and Adam ate with her.

But god walked amongst them, so Eve did know god. Very convoluted reasoning.

Its easier to accept that god was a geneticist breeder, the tree represents the knowledge of procreation, humankind were used as mindless sterile workhorses for the gods, by "eating" the knowledge they started breeding and their eyes were opened, they started multiplying, hence they were banished and they lost their longevity. They were possibly fed something that slowed their ageing; immortality would be theirs if they ate of the Tree of Life, they were banished.

a reply to: DISRAELI

is that they claim for themselves the right to decide where the boundary line comes,

But if they were made in gods image they would have reasoning powers otherwise they are mindless slaves.
The whole genesis account is rife with inconsistencies

On the second "day" their was sky
on the third day he produces vegetation
on the fourth day he produces the sun and moon and the stars

As the sun is essential for plant growth it doesn't make sense. More importantly the stars were made at the same time as our sun. Really?

Gen 2:20 "So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals. But for Adam no suitable helper was found"
This implies that there were other unsuitable helpers for Adam before Eve -

maybe the right hemisphere of the temporal lobe
was dominant originally
in a new born

eating the apple of knowledge
could be a reference
too using the left hemisphere as well

if you study how a new born's brain
do they generally use one hemisphere more than
the other when growing

could it be that it was not always this way ?

originally posted by: jigglypuff

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
If God is omniscient and omnipotent, why did he create Adam and Eve in the first place, knowing they would disobey him when tempted with the opportunity? It wouldn't serve as a convenient method for people like you to excuse evil permitted by God (because evil HAD to originate from God) and be in the position to praise God for everything good in the world and man for everything bad? Tell me that isn't why?

If God did not place the tree of life in the garden, would they have disobeyed him?

The basis of the Gospel's Design is very simply to afford equal potential upon its completion. God made his statement clear about equal potential from the very beginning: COMMON MISTAKE: God uses the Tree of Life/Star Wormwood/Healing Waters, to give Equal Potential ... God uses the Lake of Fire to eliminate any possibility of salvation for those he simply rejects, Rev. 20:13-15/1Thes4:16-17.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: jigglypuff

Jiggly. you are confusing Old testament law for how modern christians are to act. The OT law is not for us under the new covenant Jesus created when he sacrificed himself. And no the new covenant didnt destroy the old law it just changed it to history for christians.

Originally it was meant for the hebrews/jews to follow. it even states it in there.

God declares the Old Testament Law under the premise of the entirety of the Gospel's Program (1Chronicles 5:1-2)
144,000 of Reuben
144,000 of Benjamin
144,000 of Joseph
Moses was given two sets of 10 Commandments...Joshua was given one set of 10 Commandments (Joshua 8:32)
10 Generations of Genesis 5
10 Generations of Genesis 11
10 BABYLON THE GREAT of Gen 10:10-12

ROMANS 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
ROMANS 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Adam to Moses = 144,000 of Joseph ... represented by the "Rod of Joseph/Rod of Iron/Staff of Moses" (same)
Moses to Christ = 144,000 of Joseph ... represented by the "Two Mites, Two Men on the Cross with Jesus, Two Witnesses" (same)

144,000 of Joseph's precedence in the New Testament Era beginning with the arrival of Jesus, does not and did not invalidate any of terms of law, it only revealed the condemnation of the law to a greater degree (Global Census Bureau reports only 4 Significant classifications of rape and murder to only 4 Races, plus darker skin colors, plus significant aggression among all nations outside of the usa's population, either by civil offenses, civil rights offenses, or straight moral and devil disobedience).

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: jigglypuff

What about this fellow then? Mind you it's written in the book of life as well... and not quite as long ago.

Jude 1:4, Calls the "Generation of Sin", Pet People, it calls them unable to receive any mercy from Jesus, so that they are unable to receive the 144,000 of Joseph and they are suicidal for this reason at the end of time, in the presence of the Antichrist which God uses to represent the interests of the 144,000 of Joseph for this very specific reason. Genetic Dan since the New Testament Began, even before Jesus arrived officially, began to thrive on death and suicide only, this is what they have become now, facing the end of their lives. (God gave the Holy Spirit the "Tree of Life" to create Animals, but God did not give Adam the "Tree of Life" or a Legal reason to create, Pet People or Animal People, they must be put to death soon, it is necessary).

You need to study and read up on how old testament law applies to christians today. Your wrong man. And Jude... you are using a johovahs witness bible? They are worse than mormons and catholics in interpretations.

originally posted by: birdxofxprey
Gen. 2:16-17 “And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.’”

Did she die the day she ate it?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Did she die the day she ate it?

Hahahaha........ But did she die?

a reply to: concerned190
I am not 100% sure but I think she went on and had some children so she didn't die - or am I wrong?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight
One way to connect the Eden story with evolutionary theory is to equate it with the time when the evolving human species developed reasoning powers. This was the suggestion I made in the "Tree of what knowledge?" thread.
In the framework of the story, the premise is that they were previously asking God what was right or wrong.

I did not come into this thread to defend or argue the literal interpretations of the Creation story; just the specific paradox mentioned in the title.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: DISRAELI

is that they claim for themselves the right to decide where the boundary line comes,

This implies that there were other unsuitable helpers for Adam before Eve -

Yep.

Obviously, the trees in the Garden of God in Eden were "family trees" of races and nations, who admired and envied the early Assyrian Empire. These made up the "garden" that Adam was to cultivate. That is, Satan had been what we might call the Superintendent of this planet, to rule it in obedience to God's will, until he for-feited that position by rebellion against God. Adam was sent to take his place. It was Adam's job to rule the various nations and races of the earth as God's representative here, educating them in God's laws, and enforcing obedience to those laws. These other races and nations had been here long before Adam .

israelect.com...

www.sherryshriner.com...

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: concerned190
I am not 100% sure but I think she went on and had some children so she didn't die - or am I wrong?

Cain and Abel and Seth and more I think. She didn't die.

a reply to: concerned190


Rocail

a reply to: birdxofxprey

where is the paradox? God commanded not to eat of a particular tree, thats all

originally posted by: concerned190

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: concerned190
I am not 100% sure but I think she went on and had some children so she didn't die - or am I wrong?

Cain and Abel and Seth and more I think. She didn't die.

Actually She started Aging when she ate the fruit. If she didnt she would had never grown old and died from old age.
Her immortal protection died that day. remember we are all dying the moment we are born.

a reply to: dawnstar

If you mean naturally occuring and not science that blends naturally occuring and then repeating for the desired outcome to form a process then yes.

The rest was an observation of experience and an abstract of it with some reasonable hyperbole that might possibly exist on a subconsious level to make ones son into ones image through behavior and conditioning instead of what I described dipped steeply in esoteric practice.

The exwife has commented how erie it is how he and I "are exactly alike" even from very little contact from divorce and me not wanting be a stressor on the growing family since... hoping least amount of dysfunction possible, seeing the tug of war between a sister and her childrens father over their hearts.

Hes a very bright consciencious lad; already having a college degree just graduating HS this summer. Last we talked he wasnt thrilled with church and I said I had to experience it too, and its best not to be ignorant of it and not have any experience of it and offered to send him a bow tie.

Being an observer type ive got an addiction to learning but not attached to any particular subject... and enjoy so much of life, its mezmerizing in beauty and the tragic all at once im in a constant state of awe and hope for better beyond belief... which typically limits view or experience as subject to it.

Not the norm and hey Im ok with that... been the norm subject too uncertainty and extremes. Not a fan.

originally posted by: Nochzwei
a reply to: birdxofxprey

where is the paradox? God commanded not to eat of a particular tree, thats all

If one does not yet have the knowledge of good and evil, there's no way to know whether disobeying God's commands is good or evil. So, Eve knew that God said not to do it. But Eve couldn't have known that disobedience was evil.