The end of the Universe

Here is a little link:

en.wikipedia.org...

Should help even though black holes will eventualy release there infomation stored in them, Mr Hawking recently said (on that line I think).

Whats beyond our universe more universes whats beyond that even more it goes on and on....

I used to sneak into a country club with buddies, at night and we'd lay down on the 17th fairway and stare at the stars for hours and talk about this. stuff like if you are in a car going the speed of light and turn your headlights on, can you see in front of you ? lol...

We eventually settled on a theory...the rub is, if there is no beginning there can be no end. its like a string that just keeps going. ouch my head hurts now

but technically the univserve would be occupied by anti-matter

Originally posted by noname
Here is a little link:

en.wikipedia.org...

Should help even though black holes will eventualy release there infomation stored in them, Mr Hawking recently said (on that line I think).

Whats beyond our universe more universes whats beyond that even more it goes on and on....

Hawking said that information could survive passing through the event horizon. Actually, I'm not sure if he said it or conceded it to be true, thereby losing a bet...

I'm not sure if 'beyond' is really the right term - if you consider M theory, the next universe could be less than a millimeter away from us.

For my money, the universe will never end, though it will burn out. We've got several billion years before that happens. By then we should be time travellers though, so we'll just go back to an earlier time.

I know the Bible says that "God is and and will always be forever and ever" This tell me that infinity has no beggining and no end. Granted I have always wondered in part how this came to be without Gods intervention and come to the conclusion that we were made by the one (God) who created infinity.

Originally posted by Phoenycks
For my money, the universe will never end, though it will burn out. We've got several billion years before that happens. By then we should be time travellers though, so we'll just go back to an earlier time.

Well... it just doesn't burn out, after enough time all matter would just disintegrate back to energy (radiation) and temperature of this radiation would continue cool infinitely in ever expanding universe.
So even if civilization is capable to surviving from death of its solar system there would be eventually even bigger problem if we skip time scale which is required for that to happen.

"...All the labors of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and the whole temple of Mans achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins..."
-Bertrand Russel

Although there might be still hope after all...
It comes from Kardashevs classification of civilizations.
If civilization can prevent its extinction and survive to type III there wouldn't be anything other than death of universe itself which could threaten it and there would be long time to advance even further.

Since Kardashev gave the original ranking of civilizations, there have been many scientific developments which refine and extend his original analysis, such as recent developments in nanotechnology, biotechnology, quantum physics, etc.

For example, nanotechnology may facilitate the development of Von Neumann probes. As physicist Richard Feynman observed in his seminal essay, "There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom," there is nothing in the laws of physics which prevents building armies of molecular-sized machines. At present, scientists have already built atomic-sized curiosities, such as an atomic abacus with Buckyballs and an atomic guitar with strings about 100 atoms across.

Paul Davies speculates that a space-faring civilization could use nanotechnology to build miniature probes to explore the galaxy, perhaps no bigger than your palm. Davies says, "The tiny probes I'm talking about will be so inconspicuous that it's no surprise that we haven't come across one. It's not the sort of thing that you're going to trip over in your back yard. So if that is the way technology develops, namely, smaller, faster, cheaper and if other civilizations have gone this route, then we could be surrounded by surveillance devices."


Lastly, there is also the possibility that a Type II or Type III civilization might be able to reach the fabled Planck energy with their machines (10^19 billion electron volts). This is energy is a quadrillion times larger than our most powerful atom smasher. This energy, as fantastic as it may seem, is (by definition) within the range of a Type II or III civilization.

The Planck energy only occurs at the center of black holes and the instant of the Big Bang. But with recent advances in quantum gravity and superstring theory, there is renewed interest among physicists about energies so vast that quantum effects rip apart the fabric of space and time. Although it is by no means certain that quantum physics allows for stable wormholes, this raises the remote possibility that a sufficiently advanced civilizations may be able to move via holes in space, like Alice's Looking Glass. And if these civilizations can successfully navigate through stable wormholes, then attaining a specific impulse of a million seconds is no longer a problem. They merely take a short-cut through the galaxy. This would greatly cut down the transition between a Type II and Type III civilization.

Second, the ability to tear holes in space and time may come in handy one day. Astronomers, analyzing light from distant supernovas, have concluded recently that the universe may be accelerating, rather than slowing down. If this is true, there may be an anti-gravity force (perhaps Einstein's cosmological constant) which is counteracting the gravitational attraction of distant galaxies. But this also means that the universe might expand forever in a Big Chill, until temperatures approach near-absolute zero. Several papers have recently laid out what such a dismal universe may look like. It will be a pitiful sight: any civilization which survives will be desperately huddled next to the dying embers of fading neutron stars and black holes. All intelligent life must die when the universe dies.


Today, we realize that sufficiently powerful rockets may spare us from the death of our sun 5 billion years from now, when the oceans will boil and the mountains will melt. But how do we escape the death of the universe itself?

Astronomer John Barrows of the University of Sussex writes, "Suppose that we extend the classification upwards. Members of these hypothetical civilizations of Type IV, V, VI, ... and so on, would be able to manipulate the structures in the universe on larger and larger scales, encompassing groups of galaxies, clusters, and superclusters of galaxies." Civilizations beyond Type III may have enough energy to escape our dying universe via holes in space.

www.physicspost.com...

Lastly, physicist Alan Guth of MIT, one of the originators of the inflationary universe theory, has even computed the energy necessary to create a baby universe in the laboratory (the temperature is 1,000 trillion degrees, which is within the range of these hypothetical civilizations).

www.astrobio.net...


So after all this our universe might be just lab experiment of some extremely advanced civilization living in other universe.

Originally posted by instar
Comprehend nothing?
Vacume, no air, no gravity, no matter, no light. Whats so hard to comprehend?

[edit on 083131p://53018 by instar]

The human mind is incapable of comprehending anything that is infinite, which can include nothing. For instance, trying to figure out what is outside of the universe sometimes leads people to saying nothing. WHats after that? Well, nothing again if thats where you want to take. This is infinity. As humans, we can know what infinity is. We can say infinity. OUr minds however cannot invision anything infinite, and therefore we cannot comprehend it. Go ahead instar, try to invision something infinite. You will end up invisioning something that is continually growing. We cannot begin to comprehend something with no end. So, in this case, comprehending nothing is impossible.

Yes Viki, Undeniable.

Haha sorry,I read your name. The movie "I, Robot", the point when "sunny" says, yes viki, undeniable. Just like how he says undeniable. Its. odd.

Sorry, no relevence to the thread.

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by instar
Comprehend nothing?
Vacume, no air, no gravity, no matter, no light. Whats so hard to comprehend?

The human mind is incapable of comprehending anything that is infinite, which can include nothing.

Actually instar forgot time, time and space are fixed to each other, outside universe there isn't even time.

The universe consists of one base law that cannot be broken
While this law is in place there will be a universe.
There are sub laws but can be broken.

example of a sub-law:
If a + b collide in situation x, all that is left is c in situation y or b + d in situation z, .....ect

but if the base law if it were to be ever found:
a+b = c under any situation

To satisfy the human discovery for new frontiers, finding new, more exotic sub-laws to exploit will add more mystery to the overall equation that has no specific answer.

do we need an answer?



[edit on 2/3/2005 by l_iam]

Matter is 'energy formed', and it's binding is like mind and mathematics.

At the end, the energy changes vibrations and the binding will be released.

All matter will fly apart, the energy flowing through the universe, (perhaps) gathering into a huge mass at the center, poised and determined.

This ball of energy will then (also perhaps) flash through time and empty space and puncture through the wall of the depleted universe and enter the Oververse.






[edit on 3-2-2005 by masqua]

Originally posted by E_T

"...All the labors of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and the whole temple of Mans achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins..."
-Bertrand Russel

....a good reminder for the egocentric - but beyond that ...death is just another word for birth, viewed from a different dimension.


.

I find this a pretty interesting link, even though its only a theory.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

Like the visible light of distant stars and galaxies, cosmic background radiation allows scientists to peer into the past to the time when the universe was in its infancy. Density fluctuations in this radiation can also tell scientists much about the physical nature of space.

NASA released the first WMAP cosmic background radiation data, collected since October 2001, in February.

Combing through those observations, Weeks and his colleagues found that the most telling information supplied by WMAP was, in fact, the resounding echo of what was missing. Density fluctuations on the largest scale were far weaker than expected, a gap Weeks and colleagues say is best explained by a finite universe.

I don't quite understand all the terms and such, but what do others think?

Originally posted by Linux
I find this a pretty interesting link, even though its only a theory.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

Like the visible light of distant stars and galaxies, cosmic background radiation allows scientists to peer into the past to the time when the universe was in its infancy. Density fluctuations in this radiation can also tell scientists much about the physical nature of space.

NASA released the first WMAP cosmic background radiation data, collected since October 2001, in February.

Combing through those observations, Weeks and his colleagues found that the most telling information supplied by WMAP was, in fact, the resounding echo of what was missing. Density fluctuations on the largest scale were far weaker than expected, a gap Weeks and colleagues say is best explained by a finite universe.

I don't quite understand all the terms and such, but what do others think?

I think that that takes us right back to where we started, with the question of if the universe is finite, what is beyond that? And why, if the universe is really finite, is it still expanding and at a rate of acceleration?

It is quite weird. but it would be the end of OUR universe. there are more supernovas exploding, waiting for new life to form. there are alot of protostars... about to be stars and then the mass around them would form about and become possibly planets suitable for life.