DHS Secretary: Right-Wingers Pose Same Threat As Islamic Extremists

a reply to: atomish

Description of the source of my link provided.

Don't Be a Puppet: Pull Back the Curtain on Violent Extremism is an interactive website designed to educate teenagers on the destructive and deceptive reality of violent extremism and to strengthen their resistance to self-radicalization and possible recruitment. Developed by the FBI in consultation with community leaders and other partners, the site uses quizzes, videos, and other interactive materials to encourage learning. The site's theme—Don't Be a Puppet—encourages young people not to blindly accept the views of violent extremists but to carefully think through the issues.

Source

I just gave you a source that seemed to gather a lot of basic information in easy format.

The government is not as has been shown making attacks on "the right" or on Conservatives or on Republicans, but is making clear statements against "extremists on the right," and is defining clearly why those groups are different and dangerous.

Perhaps you can link to the armed groups on "the extremist left" that regularly train in military tactics on American soil while promoting treasonous rhetoric and threats against the US?

Because I certainly can provide that from "the extremist right" like the KKK, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists, etc. Not to mention the interminable "weekend warriors" that call themselves militia groups.

Go back and read carefully what the OP claimed Director Johnson actually said. You'll find he responded to someone talking about "extremist right wing" groups, and merely stated that DHS does not target anyone based on religion.

I understand being "bummed' by the lack of actual fact-checking that goes on in many discussions. I'll be glad to provide additional support for my claims if needed.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
1. Write a law that generalizes "extremists".

A numbered list! Impressive. So, which law are you referring to here, that "generalizes extremists"?

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

2. Allow partisan politics to define who has a mental issue or is a danger.

I guess you're trying to allude to the common legal restrictions against the mentally ill or disabled, or felons, et. al. that block them from rom purchasing firearms? Care to offer specific rather than blind rhetoric that means nothing?

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

3. Keep guns away from these individuals.

You don't want to keep guns away from violent criminals and crazy folks? Oookay.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

4. Force those opposed to the gun laws by pointing at gun crimes and blaming them.

This one just makes no sense.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

5. (Possible) Allow potential killers to execute their plans unobstructed and then give speeches about how those opposed to gun laws are responsible for the murders. Orlando anyone?

It's so easy to make lying, disgusting, dishonorable accusations from behind your computer screen. Give us some facts to back up your claims, or have this post seen as the partisan fraud it is.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm not lying...I never said this was a fact. Dishonorable? Disgusting? I guess that is your opinion. For the record...I'm in front of my computer screen and while I have never hid my dislike of the government, Obama and especially the radical left...I think there is sufficient history to show this is a real possibility. You don't have to agree.

When YOUR president decides to use events where murdered people are supposed to be memorialized and the living families embraced, but instead goes off on a tirade about guns...that is significantly more disgusting than suggesting he IS in a way involved in the event. Why won't this criminal you put in office release the "Fast and Furious" documents...what illegality is HE hiding? Why did Hillary lie about Benghazi...what illegal action is SHE hiding? Why did the FBI ignore all the signs including a report from a gun shop owner? It sure sounds like someone decided this wasn't worth investigating. Who is in a position to make that happen? On top of all that, the Governor of Florida wants to know the vetting process for Muslim "Refugees"...Obama refuses to share that information with him and the local police to help keep such situations from happening. Why?

And on a personal note, I find it funny that as usual, you start everything with an insult. Viagra or a pump may help. You obviously have a problem with my words and opinions...so you attempt insults. But what should I expect from someone that supports this administration. Who knows, maybe you are simply pissed that I spilled your beans.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm not lying...I never said this was a fact. Dishonorable? Disgusting? I guess that is your opinion. For the record...I'm in front of my computer screen and while I have never hid my dislike to the government, Obama and especially the radical left...I think there is sufficient history to show this is a real possibility. You don't have to agree.

Of course I don't have to agree. What a noble-sounding sentiment! You're right, I don't have to agree with the absurd claim that President Obama, or the FBI or anyone in this disgusting mess intentionally promoted or "allowed" Mr. Mateen to commit his crime. "You never said this was a fact"? Weasel-words of the first order.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

Whey YOUR president decides to use events where murdered people are supposed to be memorialized and the living families embraced, but instead goes off on a tirade about guns...that is significantly more disgusting than suggesting he IS in a way behind the event. Why won't this criminal you put in office release the "Fast and Furious" documents...what illegality is HE hiding? Why did Hillary lie about Benghazi...what illegal action is SHE hiding? And in this thread...why did the FBI ignore all the signs including a report from a gun shop owner? It sure sounds like someone decided this wasn't worth investigating. Who is the leader that could do so? On top of all that, the Governor of Florida wants to know the vetting process for Muslim "Refugees"...Obama refuses to share that information with him and the local police to help keep such situations from happening. Why?

Unless you're not a citizen of the United States, Mr. Obama is YOUR President as well. I know this will be a shock to you, but there are many Americans, INCLUDING THE FAMILIES OF THE MURDERED, that have requested that Mr. Obama take action regarding the blind availability of firearms in this country. Here's another shocker for you, not every American shares the idea that the Second Amendment grants carte-blanche to anyone carrying whatever weapons they choose anywhere at anytime.

(Blather about your Obama-hatred on your own time; it's off-topic here.)

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

And on a personal note, I find it funny that as usual, you start everything with an insult. Viagra or a pump may help. You obviously have a problem with my words and opinions...so you attempt insults. But what should I expect from someone that supports this administration. Who knows, maybe you are simply pissed that I spilled your beans.

LOL ... here's the problem with this schtick of yours ... you can't condemn someone else for doing the same thing you're doing while you're doing it. I know right-wingers have learned to live with considerable cognitive dissonance, but really.

Dude, the only beans you've spilled here are the flat, meaningless, low-information partisan arguments you always make.

I don't think anyone is surprised or take your posts seriously enough to be "pissed" ... LOL.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Considering that 90%+ of all terrorist attacks in this country are domestic in nature, this makes sense. Though the title is a bit sensationalized.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yet you continue replying? Who knows, maybe you are a shill for Obama or something. I don't know...I don't really care. And while Obama may be the president of this country, he is not my president. I have no respect for him and only give respect when someone earns it. He has not.

Do I "hate" Obama? Yes and no. I don't hate him as a person, a man, etc. but I hate the vast majority of what he does, the actions and inaction he has taken to harm our country and the entire population. You don't have to agree (I know you love it when I say that) and you have a right to your opinion (you like that one too) but I do also. And as long as I'm around...I'm going to call out anyone who intentionally tries to harm our country, it's citizens and therefore me and my family.

Hey...while we are chatting...have you seen the Obama video where they cut it up and mixed in the CIA Chief saying the exact opposite of what Obama said a few days ago? My God is that FUNNY!!!! Really...check it out when you get the chance. It makes Obama look like such a liar...great stuff.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

LOL .... aaand the shill "accusation" right on cue.

He is the duly-elected President of your country. You sound like a spoiled child that didn't get his way. Who cares if you "respect" the man? You say that like your personal opinion (or mine) makes any difference on the facts.

It doesn't.

I'm not as much of an Obama fan as you conveniently imply in your rhetoric, but that's just a fact, don't let it trouble you. Correcting the continual misrepresentations that get laid at the President's feet is not "support" just an appreciation for the facts.

This is not an Obama-bashing thread. It's about a misrepresentation of comments by the DHS Director which has been corrected. If you'd like to discuss that topic, let's go.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Every thread is an Obama bashing thread. You just have to use your imagination

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Gryphon66

Every thread is an Obama bashing thread. You just have to use your imagination

That's a sad statement on the relative quality of our posts here, then.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Gryphon66

Every thread is an Obama bashing thread. You just have to use your imagination

Only because of people like you who cannot respect the proper rules of debate overrun these forums.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: atomish

Description of the source of my link provided.

Don't Be a Puppet: Pull Back the Curtain on Violent Extremism is an interactive website designed to educate teenagers on the destructive and deceptive reality of violent extremism and to strengthen their resistance to self-radicalization and possible recruitment. Developed by the FBI in consultation with community leaders and other partners, the site uses quizzes, videos, and other interactive materials to encourage learning. The site's theme—Don't Be a Puppet—encourages young people not to blindly accept the views of violent extremists but to carefully think through the issues.

Source

I just gave you a source that seemed to gather a lot of basic information in easy format.

Understood about the source. It seems extremely questionable to me, based on the loaded language used. Reminds me of all the old D.A.R.E sites and such other government outlets spewing what smells like propaganda.

However, I appreciate it nonetheless. I do not feel like you were being disrespectful, merely giving what you found to be a comprehensive source in quick enough time.

The government is not as has been shown making attacks on "the right" or on Conservatives or on Republicans, but is making clear statements against "extremists on the right," and is defining clearly why those groups are different and dangerous.

I agree that I don't think they are just attacking the right or "conservatives". Hell, I don't even think most people these days understand the true definition of the political terms they bandy about.

Where we differ here is not the target but the purported quality of the message. Even if the government has not taken action against the groups they broadstroke, it is the broadstroking itself that concerns me. Blanket accusations that we must be watchful of gun owners or returning veterans or people distrustful of government is insulting.

Mind you, there are plenty on the "left" that could fit into any of these categories. They are targets just the same, in my mind.

Perhaps you can link to the armed groups on "the extremist left" that regularly train in military tactics on American soil while promoting treasonous rhetoric and threats against the US?

Because I certainly can provide that from "the extremist right" like the KKK, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists, etc. Not to mention the interminable "weekend warriors" that call themselves militia groups.

Perhaps I can but I probably cannot. I am not blind to the realities in this country.

Yes, you are correct. There are groups out there training in such tactics and perhaps spouting rhetoric like what you claim. Some of these groups are full of whackjobs and bigots and are a threat to us all.

But some of them are saying truth, speaking out against a treasonous government. And those groups may well be the last line of defense between you and I and the jackboots that may come for us if thing ever get to that point. That is what they prepare for.

This is why I struggle with such broadstroking. Some of those people in those groups likely even consider themselves more "left" affiliated and we all have a lot more in common with eachother than not.

And while there may not be obvious "left" groups practicing military tactics, there are potential extremists on the left that use different tactics that could pose just as much a threat if unchecked.

The problem is extemism in any form, political ideology is just the vehicle for it.

Go back and read carefully what the OP claimed Director Johnson actually said. You'll find he responded to someone talking about "extremist right wing" groups, and merely stated that DHS does not target anyone based on religion.

I will concede this to be mostly true, it just doesn't sit well with me when one official makes statements as such after others in his department before him have said much worse, such as the 2009 report full of nonsense.

But you are right, on its face it is very difficult to prove the conspiracy theories claiming the government has acted out against people they have such labeled. Perhaps you and I just had differing levels of faith in the governing system and that is ok, of course!

I understand being "bummed' by the lack of actual fact-checking that goes on in many discussions. I'll be glad to provide additional support for my claims if needed.

I will be hard-pressed to ever claim you do not back up what you say.

While I may not always like your arguments or agree with your tone (I'm sure you don't like mine, either, sometimes) I would never claim you didn't support your arguments. And this is why no matter what your stance, I will always happily engage you in conversation.

Shill accusations against you are ridiculous and unfounded. It appears some in this thread maybe don't have the same strength of conviction to the truth as you and I.

Thanks for your thoughtful and well-reasoned post in the midst of other, more heated arguments.

For the sake of posterity here, I am posting a source which links to the newest CVE report.

Report linked in source.

I've downloaded the report and will read later today to comment. I've only skimmed through but based on what is said in the linked article, this seems to speak largely to the point Gryphon was making to me above.

Are they really trying to prevent an us vs. them mentality by recommending we don't use certain words? It just sounds like more control over the division of our populace to me, although the terms they wish to lessen the use of can be divisive as well, true or not.

I will have an answer to my own question once I read up but I just wanted to share with those involved in this discussion.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Extremism is a threat, whatever the side. Fanatics are dangerous.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Gryphon66

Every thread is an Obama bashing thread. You just have to use your imagination

Only because of people like you who cannot respect the proper rules of debate overrun these forums.

Go check his posts. I have been here about a month and a half and I have not read a SINGLE thread where he hasn't come in and de-railed it with personal attacks and out right lies. The Right Wing is the only thing protecting you Left Wingers from getting invaded. How long do the SJW warriors really think America would last without The White Males that they hate so effing much?
They really are coming for our guns. I never thought that would happen or I would have long ago stockpiled many away. Honestly ask yourself: Are you more afraid of your redneck neighbor or of Achmed chopping your head off? Because if they have you more afraid Billy Bob then Achmed then we have already lost.

a reply to: LordDraconia

You clearly missed the point of what I was trying to convey there. In any case, I've been here for 4 years and am very familiar with that poster and his words. Though it's funny that you think that you along with the rest of the right is protecting the rest of us from invaders. Lol. Your ego is writing checks that reality can't cash. Your delusions are hilarious.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
If you like freedom, you can keep your freedom.

-just not guns

Yes much like how you could keep your insurance plan if you liked it.


..owh wait!

originally posted by: LordDraconia
Honestly ask yourself: Are you more afraid of your redneck neighbor or of Achmed chopping your head off? Because if they have you more afraid Billy Bob then Achmed then we have already lost.

I live next to Billy Bob and Achmed both and I fear neither of them, nor do they seem to fear eachother.

Where does that leave us?

originally posted by: atomish

originally posted by: LordDraconia
Honestly ask yourself: Are you more afraid of your redneck neighbor or of Achmed chopping your head off? Because if they have you more afraid Billy Bob then Achmed then we have already lost.

I live next to Billy Bob and Achmed both and I fear neither of them, nor do they seem to fear eachother.

Where does that leave us?

Well it leaves you as a rational human being who doesn't let the media's fear campaign dictate his beliefs. I'm not quite so sure about the guy you were responding to though. It appears that his day-to-day life is just constantly filled with fear and paranoia. Must be a terrifying life.

originally posted by: TownCryer
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Extremism is a threat, whatever the side. Fanatics are dangerous.

Agreed.

Hate is hate. Just as a knife is a knife...

Some have it worse in life...

It is EASIER to be more violent when you're life sucks more. When you have less to LOOSE.

It's harder to go ape when you have a fairly comfortable existence. Why throw your life away so easily when racist and hateful rhetoric is free and without personal risk?

Especially on the internet...unlike Cheers...not everybody knows your name...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: atomish

originally posted by: LordDraconia
Honestly ask yourself: Are you more afraid of your redneck neighbor or of Achmed chopping your head off? Because if they have you more afraid Billy Bob then Achmed then we have already lost.

I live next to Billy Bob and Achmed both and I fear neither of them, nor do they seem to fear eachother.

Where does that leave us?

Well it leaves you as a rational human being who doesn't let the media's fear campaign dictate his beliefs. I'm not quite so sure about the guy you were responding to though. It appears that his day-to-day life is just constantly filled with fear and paranoia. Must be a terrifying life.

It's mind-boggling to me but another poster had put it so succinctly, I wish I could remember their name and exact words.

To paraphrase, they were essentially saying poor people don't have time to worry about this crap.

My fiancé and I are two of very few white people in our low income neighborhood. Most of the population here is Hatian but we do have many Muslims and what some may consider "rednecks" mixed in.

In nearly two years living here, I've experienced two instances of racism or bigotry, one involving a black girl and one involving a man who appeared to be of Middle Eastern descent. This is amongst hundreds of interactions and conversations with neighbors all over this neighborhood of all types who never showed us anything but courtesy and kindness.

It just makes me believe that, while there is hate and violence in the world, there are Muslims bombing cafes and WBC types bombing abortion clinics, while this is happening most of us just want to go on with our daily lives, living in peace with our fellow neighbors.

My experience living here has proved to me that the circumstances of our human condition bind us closer together than the color of our skin or the religion we choose to follow should ever be able to divide us.

It is indeed a fear campaign, isn't it? There are things we should be fearful of but we should not live in fear. As long as we are vigilant in protecting our rights and in protecting our neighbors rights, no matter who they may be, we can turn this ship around and make a better world for us and our children.

Sorry for the rant. It just upsets me seeing groups of people broadstroked in such silly ways. To use the poster I responded to's words:

If the government or media has us afraid of our neighbors, then we have already lost.