Orlando Nightclub Massacre

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

The FBI is reporting that they have identified the shooter and that he had radical Islamic ties.

I have not seen that reported yet.

As far as the persecution complex, there were more than a couple of posters assuming that the shooter was a 'dumb white redneck' with zero facts out to back up that assumption.

Ok. I did not say that. That is just as unreasonable as assuming this guy was Muslim.

We need facts. Can you link to the FBI statement that this person had ties to radical Muslims?

You didn't say it so it doesn't exist?

I cannot be held accountable for something I did not say.

a reply to: introvert

Here's your link of press confrence. Not a long video, like 30 seconds. FBI has suggestions he's another radical islamists. Sorry, I suspect that won't be concrete enough for you since he said not 100% sure.


www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: ketsuko

Maybe they might be rational and decide that this one guy doesn't represent them all? I know that sounds crazy.

I know that, but how do you sort of the ones who are OK from the ones who would do this? I think if they're not in the country now and they aren't citizens, we should have no responsibility to feel like they need to come here.

We control our immigration. Is there some reason you feel the need to import a group of people who have some who are disposed toward massacring you and those you love because we don't bow to their ideology?

He was met with police resistance from the beginning. His initial plans were thwarted so the initial motive might not come to light.

a reply to: Gothmog

No they haven't, they said they are looking into it. I think the police said it might be, or that it is likely but nothing has came out to confirm it.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

The FBI is reporting that they have identified the shooter and that he had radical Islamic ties.

I have not seen that reported yet.

As far as the persecution complex, there were more than a couple of posters assuming that the shooter was a 'dumb white redneck' with zero facts out to back up that assumption.

Ok. I did not say that. That is just as unreasonable as assuming this guy was Muslim.

We need facts. Can you link to the FBI statement that this person had ties to radical Muslims?

You didn't say it so it doesn't exist?

I cannot be held accountable for something I did not say.

No, but you can be held accountable for poo-pooing a members concerns as non existent.... and then try to bail out by saying that you did nothing when you are presented with facts.

a reply to: StolidPanda

Thanks. Still nothing definitive.

They don't know for sure.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: ketsuko

Maybe they might be rational and decide that this one guy doesn't represent them all? I know that sounds crazy.

All well and good but ya just can't tell the good from the bad.

There IS a war going on with the radical nutjob murderers, btw.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

The FBI is reporting that they have identified the shooter and that he had radical Islamic ties.

I have not seen that reported yet.

As far as the persecution complex, there were more than a couple of posters assuming that the shooter was a 'dumb white redneck' with zero facts out to back up that assumption.

Ok. I did not say that. That is just as unreasonable as assuming this guy was Muslim.

We need facts. Can you link to the FBI statement that this person had ties to radical Muslims?

You didn't say it so it doesn't exist?

I cannot be held accountable for something I did not say.

No, but you can be held accountable for poo-pooing a members concerns as non existent.... and then try to bail out by saying that you did nothing when you are presented with facts.

Am I being unreasonable in saying that I will wait for the facts before jumping to any conclusions or speculating too much?

I did not say their concerns were non-existent.

Edit: By the way, no definitive facts have been presented. That's my point.

a reply to: Sremmos80
Better check again.

a reply to: ketsuko
Well that is a hell of a loaded question.
I don't believe that they all want to do that. I guess it I did then sure I wouldn't, but I don't have a reason other than using the actions of the extremist that are who alot of those people are trying to get away from.

a reply to: Gothmog

Watching it live bud, by all means show me other wise.

Well, new press confrence in 30, so hopefully we can clear most of it up.

Scratch that. 0930 est. So an hour.

Just woke up and saw this.

I saw the press conference with Law Enforcement. The '20 dead' statement was a guess. 42 transported was more of an exact statement. They took care of the wounded first, and might just now be trying to ID victims.

CNN is verifying the shooter was from out of town, and the police said he apparently came to Orlando for this express purpose. That raises some red flags for me. I am also concerned there were so many reports of 2 shooters, and now they're talking like it was one? I never heard about the second shooter until I read this thread.

CNN just reported verbally that this is considered International terrorist related. Verbal, no link.

TheRedneck

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Not sure what there is to be smiling about right now, but hey if you feel the need.
I don't think you can say you can't tell, that sounds like a cop out to me. There are plenty over here that go every day without incident.

originally posted by: Gothmog
Why are no Florida news stations reporting this ? Most of the Google links point back here to ATS

are you in Florida? I'm 45 mins from Orlando and it is all over the news!

Here's the Daily Mail on it.

An FBI spokesman said the mass shooting is being investigated as an act of terrorism. He explained authorities are looking into whether this was an act of domestic or international terror, and if the shooter was a lone wolf.

Police said the gunman, who was shot dead, was believed to be in his 20s was not a local man, while the FBI believe he may have 'leanings to radical Islamic terrorism'.

a reply to: TheRedneck

From what I've dug in to the second shooter was a off duty cop being a security guard at club. So one shooter.

Well, if it is true that it's radical Islamic terror, it will change the dynamic of the election in ways we can't even predict. It seems profoundly uncanny coincidental to me that this act could/might unify both the left and the right with regard to one of the most divisive issues of the campaign - immigration by Muslims to the U.S.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

The FBI is reporting that they have identified the shooter and that he had radical Islamic ties.

I have not seen that reported yet.

As far as the persecution complex, there were more than a couple of posters assuming that the shooter was a 'dumb white redneck' with zero facts out to back up that assumption.

Ok. I did not say that. That is just as unreasonable as assuming this guy was Muslim.

We need facts. Can you link to the FBI statement that this person had ties to radical Muslims?

You didn't say it so it doesn't exist?

I cannot be held accountable for something I did not say.

No, but you can be held accountable for poo-pooing a members concerns as non existent.... and then try to bail out by saying that you did nothing when you are presented with facts.

Am I being unreasonable in saying that I will wait for the facts before jumping to any conclusions or speculating too much?

I did not say their concerns were non-existent.

Again, you are doing your typical switch.
Not talking about Islam in that post and you know it.
I am talking about you downplaying ketsuko concerns about blame being placed on a 'wasp', as you put it.
There were multiple members saying that it would be a 'dumb white redneck' that was responsible. You haven't singled out their posts and given them a piece of your mind.
Instead, you are demanding proof that it is what the FBI is saying.
Go demand proof that it is a 'dumb white redneck'.