Jesus words on Faith, Salvation and the Kingdom of God

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: LenatasataneL
Paul is not teaching anything different. You seem to be though, just as those who have responded to you in this thread expressing their disagreement (who are also not teaching everything that Paul wrote and trying to fit their interpretation of his words into their beliefs and doctrines rather than adjusting them to what the bible actually teaches, including the books Paul wrote).

1 John 5:21 (written by John the apostle, NWT):

Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16a:

Do not become unevenly yoked* with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al?* Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?

1st * = Or “joined.”
2nd * = From a Hebrew word meaning “Good for Nothing.” A reference to Satan.

John 3:16 (NWT):

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

James 2:14,17:

14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.

Hebrews 10:22a, 24 (Paul writing again):

22 let us approach with sincere hearts and complete faith,...
24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,...

The entire bible is nicely consistent on important points you and many others don't seem to be very consistent on. As Paul said:

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* [Or “correcting.”] for disciplining in righteousness,...

Saved, Not by Works Alone, But by Undeserved Kindness: The Watchtower (2005)

...Clearly, even though works alone cannot save us, they are necessary. That is why Christians are called [by Paul] “a people peculiarly his own, zealous for fine works” and why they are encouraged to “consider one another to incite to love and fine works.” (Titus 2:14; Hebrews 10:24) More to the point, another Bible writer, James, simply says: “As the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”—James 2:26.

More stuff from Paul about this subject...

2 Timothy 2:15:

Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.

2 Peter 1:10:

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and choosing sure for yourselves, for if you keep on doing these things, you will by no means ever fail.

3:14:

Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.

I see. You are the one who knows the truth and wish to express your superiority of compression. How revolutionary.

I don't see anything that you said that even hints of understanding and you rely heavily on copy and pasting sections of scripture rather than explain what you are thinking.

If you were so knowledgeable you would have been able to explain it in your words.


Mimicry is not knowledge.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: LenatasataneL
Paul is not teaching anything different. You seem to be though, just as those who have responded to you in this thread expressing their disagreement (who are also not teaching everything that Paul wrote and trying to fit their interpretation of his words into their beliefs and doctrines rather than adjusting them to what the bible actually teaches, including the books Paul wrote).[quote]

Here we have someone claiming that everyone in the thread doesn't understand and that we are all "teaching something new." Accusations need to be proven but no proof is offered, instead we are left with the impression of someone who thinks only he gets it.

If so, you would anticipate an explanation of what is the meaning that he knows but we don't to substantiate his claim to understanding. Let us see what he says to explain the"true" meaning.

1 John 5:21 (written by John the apostle, NWT):

Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16a:

Do not become unevenly yoked* with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al?* Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?

1st * = Or “joined.”
2nd * = From a Hebrew word meaning “Good for Nothing.” A reference to Satan.

John 3:16 (NWT):

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

James 2:14,17:

14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.

Hebrews 10:22a, 24 (Paul writing again):

22 let us approach with sincere hearts and complete faith,...
24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,...[quote]

The entire bible is nicely consistent on important points you and many others don't seem to be very consistent on. As Paul said:

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* [Or “correcting.”] for disciplining in righteousness,...

Saved, Not by Works Alone, But by Undeserved Kindness: The Watchtower (2005)

...Clearly, even though works alone cannot save us, they are necessary. That is why Christians are called [by Paul] “a people peculiarly his own, zealous for fine works” and why they are encouraged to “consider one another to incite to love and fine works.” (Titus 2:14; Hebrews 10:24) More to the point, another Bible writer, James, simply says: “As the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”—James 2:26.

More stuff from Paul about this subject...

2 Timothy 2:15:

Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.

2 Peter 1:10:

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and choosing sure for yourselves, for if you keep on doing these things, you will by no means ever fail.

3:14:

Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.

In the end, we get quotes, a few words about how we are inconsistent and don't understand, and more quotes.

Ego is the only thing that I got out of that. That you want to be the Bible master but never do you offer a profound explanation or some intriguing insight.

Just other people's words.

a reply to: LenatasataneL
This isn't about me.

What's with the 2nd misquote of me? My few words weren't conducive enough for painting your picture with accompanying ad hominems so you had to change them....twice?

The first one I let go. But on ATS it's too often the same routine.

Last time someone asked me the rhetorical question and hidden ad hominem if I was the oracle, the go-to-man.

Again, this isn't about me, hence why I let the bible speak for itself and let Paul defend himself regarding those who want to give people the wrong ideas regarding what Paul said about faith and works (or other related subjects), my quotations make it more clear what Paul was actually teaching. Paul knew that faith without works is dead and as James says, "cannot save him, can it?"

Below is my response to that other person painting the picture of someone who thinks of himself as the oracle on me (to distract and make this about me, the person in question claims to be a Christian yet seems to have no issues in using the same tactics you're using, making this about me rather than what the bible is saying, which I'm simply quoting, I don't even need to add anything of my own, but first you were complaining about that as if to first draw me in so you'd have more material to work with and do your thing; as if when you're expressing your views/beliefs you are somehow exempted from your accusations towards me when I'm expressing mine and showing where I'm getting it from in the bible. You're allowed to talk about your views regarding something the bible says and not be accused of wanting to be "the Bible master" but when I even say a few lines that are just pointing out general things such as how consistent the bible is without using my own interpretation then I "want to be the Bible master"? Got it. I'll let you do the talking then I guess, shut up and swallow it. I can't guarantee I'll retain much of it though, I have a weak stomach regarding what's mentioned in my sig.

You can do your own research, but the facts won't go away with you pointing fingers at me without spelling out your accusation but subtly suggesting it to anyone who reads it.

You spelled it out more than he did.