US unemployed have quit looking for jobs at a 'frightening' level: Survey

It's basically always issues with employment / unemployment, you as a potential employee just have to remain diligent in your job searches. Me being a 17 year technical school grad. learned that you have to keep contacts and keep a resume that manages to keep up with the times. You also have to learn personal money management skills. These skills allow you to project your potential salaries. How much you "actually" take in after taxes and other attachments - exemptions are factored in and the most important how much can you save...
I personally had to learn these skills starting from a C.A.D technician then moving up to a C.A.D Designer. I had to learn because upon exiting tech. school I thought it would be simple keep resume updated get "good" job that I went to school for... This was what I thought until I graduated and entered the cooperate world as a young adult. The DREAM seemed obtainable just work hard keep career position follow the traditions preset, until I was exposed to "office politics" For those who don't know office politics are similar to politics. There are chosen groups and if you don't make the group (no matter how hard you work) your position is NEVER stable. In my field not only are you competing with your peer age groups but also with older peer age groups THAT CANNOT RETIRE for some reasons
Therefore they who would be the Teacher of the apprentice hold back sharing data and advancing you at times. So that they can remain more relevant to the A/E firms. And I don't blame them, they had/have dreams too... But what I did do is restructure my mind to accept yes now being a self enrolled grad. student with loans I have to pay, now I have/had to put the dream on pause and accept what I thought was not so. Because part of the dream included get degree get good career enjoy family life, but I learned not to count on what I was taught -told. So I learned SAVE for those times I know would come at every job. Beginning of job usually many projects keeping Engineers and Designers busy and busy means job security. But soon as the projects were done "office politics" kicks in and usually older peer groups kept jobs and those of the younger peer or my peer group would remain who the elders picked. Which usually left others from my peer group & me though hard workers and efficient workers exiting the firm.
Again constant reminder manage funds and keep job versatility (meaning be financially prepared as possible to continue taking care of your family between jobs & keep jobs in mind you may not want to do or may not even have experience for) So I can understand somewhat what some may be going through. I don't think many necessarily want to give up its probably more processes of elimination based on some knowing they could financially benefit from projected college student by aiding them in employment markets that some may of know wouldn't be very lucrative in the far future. But at least economy main street numbers continue to thrive. Also the current administration isn't responsible for the ENRON like issues of y2k. And I'm not pointing fingers just sayen lets be adults and recognize what caused what. Which leads to the conclusion MANY HUMANS DEPEND ON POLITICAL RESULTS that make or lose jobs build lives ect. they actually BELIEVE in those chosen to FIX the jobs issues spoken about during elections. And when those promises fall through and the population realizes, it kind of lowers the beliefs and even interest in many to remain productive in "sad" system, which may account for some of the population related to the op...

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: charlyv

Front end web dev is basically the lowest rung on the ladder, but you can still make reasonable money doing it. You just have to stay current on tech, so that when you run into that HR department that wants 5 years of Angular experience (a tech that has only existed for 4), you can get through the filter and you're experienced in it.

Back end probably has more job security than front end.

The popularity and reproduce-ability of VM has drastically changed the industry. Those in IT that have been outsourced, usually occur from legacy systems that have gone that route. Again, keeping up with what is going on can save your job. With an IT background, you already have 90% of what you need to know, that extra 10%, VMware, is the new enabler that will keep you current, and if you get further into scripting with PowerShell and Ruby/Rails, you increase that ten fold.

BTW: Those that think being over 60 is a career death event, if you are looking for work... Heed the above. I work with a number of engineers in this age group, and they are all actively employed using the above scenario. In effect, with VM, the more you know and have experienced, the more valuable you are, and good corporate recruiters and contract negotiators know this very well.

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: UnBreakable
I just want to make an observation. I've been out of work for eleven months now as my position was eliminated after 25+ plus years. I was in an IT position in an insurance company. I got a year severance and not currently receiving unenployment benefits. I've applied to @80 positions which have resulted in only a few interviews. I'm not demanding a huge salary. The thing I noticed is that there is an age bias out there. I'm 56 which I believe works against me. I was never a high level executive because I never played political games or kissed ass. I've also registered with multiple recruiters to no avail. Also, what do people do for money when they quit looking for work and their unemployment runs out?

If you are over the age of 55, you are screwed under our current paradigm
I have friends and aquaintances that age and older and pretty much are SOL
The paradigm needs to change

100% true. McDonald's has been headquartered in the burbs of Chicago for decades. They are moving just outside the loop - which has a high percentage of young people. (Very few people with families want to live in such crowded areas with bad schools). They are far enough away from the commuter train stations which would make it almost impossible for anyone from the burbs to take the train and the commute by car would range from 1-2 hours each way.

Did they issue a memo stating they were firing older worker- no but the took steps that would ensure that older workers would find it impossible to work at that location.

A lot of great info in this thread! Thank you for posting, OP, & thank you all for your interesting replies. I had to sit & read them all, because, & I kid you not, my 15 yr. old is actually worrying himself to death over the fact that he may not be able to get himself a job, after he graduates from college. He presently is in a trade H.S., taking all honors & majoring in pre-engineering to become a physicist.....I'm trying to alleviate his fears, by telling him, the school he wants to attend, will most likely help him find a job, but of course I'm not stupid enough to even believe that!! But we also have extended family out of the same college, who ended up working for that college, & are currently still working there....Hes got family businesses he can fall back in, if need be....but it's a real worry!!! He said he doesn't want to be stuck working in a college, he wants a job in his field that's going to take him around the world.......I'm going to have him read here. I think he's a member anyway, so I'm going to send him the link to this thread....thank you all again, for some great info!!

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: projectvxn

There are TONS of jobs out there.

I thought the same thing until my friend decided to do an intervention with her son.

He graduated college but was just hanging around the house, complaining that he couldn't find a job.

She got tired of it, took off three days from work, got a list of job fairs, and other places that were advertising they had work. She decided she was going to be proactive and drive him to all these places and submit his application.

By the end of the third day she had given up. She said every place she went that claimed they had work, also had applicants winding around the block. An average of 10 jobs for 2000 applicants.

She is trying to get him to chose a skill. Her husband is a home builder contractor, she is a medical social worker. He knows the kind of hours and hard work their careers require, so he is not very enthusiastic about learning a skill or becoming an apprentice.

It is very hard for young folk today. There may be a lot of jobs, but there seems to be even more people looking for jobs than there are jobs available. Most of those jobs don't pay enough for children to be able to live independently, so they are still at home with their parents.

My elderly mother has three friends that just had to take in their grown children, along with the grand and great-grandchildren, because of illness, and or lost of jobs.

My baby sister just got laid off from her job, after 25 years working for the company, because of down-sizing. She was smart enough to put something away for a rainy day, so she is sitting pretty, and going for an early retirement. Few people are as lucky.

That was the situation I was in after finishing college. I really wanted to stay in my home city (3 mile radius, 250K population) and thought I could just find a job downtown and live in the same suburb as my parents. Reality was that the whole graduate population of the Scottish Highlands was fanatically determined to get a job in the city for all the nightclubs and bars. Everyone who had been on the school sports team captain, head prefect.., officer in the cadets. So the competition for the big name corporation software jobs was fierce - 300+ applicants resumes for each job. Many with 2+ to 20+ years experience.

Went round all the job fairs. Like all the other candidates, I did the IQ tests. Everyone was 140+, passed their English language, comprehension, analytical thinking, arithmetic, mathematics, language skills. The jobs were for lab technicians, admins, secretaries and help desk staff.

All my other peers had either gone into the family business or down South to London. Those that went down South ended up going abroad due to the high cost of living. One guy went with his fiancee to rent a house. They had to settle to rent a room in a house shared by four couples. The landlord even made people bid on the rent for each room. The competition for a job in London was even fiercer as employers would resort to things like handwriting analysis to divine good candidates from the bad ones. The competition is fierce because there are so many employers and that guarantees high salaries since employees can change jobs over a lunchtime interview.

The hazards of "one company towns" is that you'll end up with a two or three hour commute if you change jobs. I did that after moving to the Isle of Wight, then finding a job on the mainland. There are people who commute from one end of the Solent to the other on a daily basis.

The best way to attract employers attention is to maintain a blog of your own projects. I spent three months looking for work (having to jump through hoops trying to pass programming tests) and found work within two weeks after posting tech demos.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: UnBreakable

I'm 56 which I believe works against me.

It never used to be that way, but it most certainly is now. Age used to be a preference over youth just simply because of all the hands-on knowledge and experience of someone older who's worked in the field can bring to the table.

But now, you'll be hardpressed to find many employers who still think that way.

These employers are only looking at their short-term bottom line, rather than their long-term savings... ie: hiring a young person who can get by on a lower wage.

Business these days is all about the sprint, rather than the marathon.


It's a crying shame the way businesses operate these days.

... and it's also one of the biggest reasons why you don't see too many businesses anymore than can last longer than 20+ years before having to either merge, sell out shares, or completely close its doors altogether.

It's very discouraging for the older worker. Granted, if I was an employer, I'd hire the younger worker too. Fresh out of college, they are adept at the newer technology and will work for less pay, and their health benefits will be less costly in the long run. But I have adjusted in my former job as technologies changed. I w.s dependable and dedicated too. I took a total of three sick days in the previous twelve years and worked 70+ hour weeks during busy season, no problem. Oh well.

This is capitalism for you. People hoard the money buy making everything expensive and building their own empire out of a country. The Greed will never end until the Rich gains control of your home. Your newborns are just new recruits. Either that or they live homeless.

originally posted by: j.r.c.b.
A lot of great info in this thread! Thank you for posting, OP, & thank you all for your interesting replies. I had to sit & read them all, because, & I kid you not, my 15 yr. old is actually worrying himself to death over the fact that he may not be able to get himself a job, after he graduates from college. He presently is in a trade H.S., taking all honors & majoring in pre-engineering to become a physicist.....I'm trying to alleviate his fears, by telling him, the school he wants to attend, will most likely help him find a job, but of course I'm not stupid enough to even believe that!! But we also have extended family out of the same college, who ended up working for that college, & are currently still working there....Hes got family businesses he can fall back in, if need be....but it's a real worry!!! He said he doesn't want to be stuck working in a college, he wants a job in his field that's going to take him around the world.......I'm going to have him read here. I think he's a member anyway, so I'm going to send him the link to this thread....thank you all again, for some great info!!

Tell him to stop worrying and handle his business the landscape of the economy is going to change drastically by the time he gets out of college.

This will be totally irrelevant by then.

originally posted by: j.r.c.b.
A lot of great info in this thread! Thank you for posting, OP, & thank you all for your interesting replies. I had to sit & read them all, because, & I kid you not, my 15 yr. old is actually worrying himself to death over the fact that he may not be able to get himself a job, after he graduates from college.

I would worry about graduating HS and then graduating college before worrying about a post college job, a career especially. No one knows what the job landscape is going to look like 10 years from now as far as what's viable, what's in demand, and what will be just enough for you to get by.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: dawnstar

In my area apprentice machinists make 24 bucks an hour to start. That's without the union. That's a living wage right there at 52k per year.

The mean average salary of a machinist is 42k per year or 22 bucks per hour.

I created an account just to reply to this thread.

I'm 41 years old. The three main occupations I've had were 1) mechanic 2) construction and 3) IT professional. I have a bachelor of science degree in multidisciplinary science, graduated magna cum laude.

The last company I worked for fired all of their IT personnel, brought in a whole new crop from overseas. This was 2 years ago.

I have been looking for another job ever since. So far, after literally hundreds of applications and resumes for everything from teaching (I'm certified) to IT jobs to construction, I've had a total of TWO interviews. One was a private school that narrowed it down to myself an one other person. The other person got the job, but I was told that I shouldn't let it get to me because there were over 150 applicants.

The only other job I've been offered in the last 2 years was working for a machine shop. They asked me what I would be asking for salary. I said I could start at 16, and believe I could do well enough for the company that they would be happy to pay me 20 in 2-3 years, but did not say anything about what was going on in my head: (private thought) "Maybe I can get to 25 in 5 years, and 30 in ten.

To my request for 16 I was told this, I # you not:

"Well what we offer here is valuable experience. We will allow you to learn the machines and build up valuable skills in the marketplace, and we offer this for free."

I was so confused by the statement I asked them to repeat and clarify.

What they meant was that they weren't hiring, but they'd be happy to let me work for free.

I was too shocked to tell them to go # themselves. Out of habit, I shook their hand and stayed polite until I left.

Now I'm starting to understand what people are saying when they say that all the available jobs are open for a reason - either the employer treats employees like #, underpays them, or refuses to pay them at all. This is not the job market I remember 20, or even 10 years ago.

So to summarize, all this talk about great trades, professions, and jobs sound wonderful until you read the fine print. The reality is that the titanic is sinking, and instead of anyone working to fix the leaks, people keep playing the music and rearranging the deck chairs.

This is a bad problem and it seems to only be getting worse.

All the advice of how to groom yourself for an interview is ignoring a world where jobs are becoming more and more demanding, with less pay, and ever-increasing competition between the unemployed to try and get what jobs remain.

It's a game of musical chairs, and every year it seems a few million more chairs go missing in the USA.

Telling people to start their own business sounds like a decent idea when you can't find work at an already-established company, but the problem is that the public just doesn't have the spending power it used to. Everything is tight, disposable incomes are shrinking, and it's getting worse for all of those who are not yet independently wealthy.

There are solutions to these problems but they are not going to happen under the current political and economic paradigm.

a reply to: povray

You have to go through a staffing agency it's your only hope.

No joke it sucks but unless your connected.

There are so many jobs out there, people are just picky, prideful, and lazy. Beggars can't be choosers. You have to start from the ground up, and many people are not about that.

This is yet another regurgitated story that's been making its way around these hallways like a ghost for at least 15 years now. We can't find enough qualified people in my business and many others are in the same boat. Construction is booming in many, many areas.

While there may be some truth to these numbers, but I'd venture to say that 1.) they are comparable to those from 10-15 years go and that 2.) those who got hit hard post-9/11 in the 2001-2009 time frame and just found others ways to live and cope. Is unemployment still an issue? Sure. But it sure as spit is better than it was in the last decade.

Unemployment Numbers May Be Worse Than You Think

originally posted by: povray

Now I'm starting to understand what people are saying when they say that all the available jobs are open for a reason - either the employer treats employees like #, underpays them, or refuses to pay them at all. This is not the job market I remember 20, or even 10 years ago.

So to summarize, all this talk about great trades, professions, and jobs sound wonderful until you read the fine print. The reality is that the titanic is sinking, and instead of anyone working to fix the leaks, people keep playing the music and rearranging the deck chairs.

This is a bad problem and it seems to only be getting worse.

OMG, I'm in my late 40s and I feel the exact same way. Background in finance with a heavy emphasis on IT (I'm not a pro programmer but I'm way ahead of most people in my field).

After I took a few years off to care for my mother, I couldn't find a job for the longest time. Finally, found a little low paying temp job. They kept me on for a year as a temp without benefits. They finally hired me as permanent employee but I was still making less than I did 20 years ago. Still, I was thrilled to have a job and I was happy to have challenging work even if it didn't pay much.

A quit last week without notice. Why? Because while I was there I saw employee after employee be fired by humiliation by the President of the company. The admins would get long-winded emails about setting up the chairs in the wrong direction. Consultants would be mocked about their hours in a room full of people. The President, on purpose, sent an email to the entire office during a manager's last week saying he was a nice guy but he didn't make all his sales so that's why he had to go As soon as I received my first nasty email from this guy, I knew he had chosen me to be his next victim.

I figured if I left my job, I wouldn't find another one with or without notice. I may have been poorer two weeks early but I retained by dignity.

I can't totally drop out of the work force ( I would if I could) but I have given up trying to find a position in my field. I've accepted the fact that I will have to live on minimum wage in poverty. I had hopes to buy a modest car and take a little vacation. No more.

I see so many businesses complain about regulations killing the economy but nothing kills the economy more than consumers without hope and zero plans.

originally posted by: Daughter2
I see so many businesses complain about regulations killing the economy but nothing kills the economy more than consumers without hope and zero plans.

I've been in a discussion with someone recently about contracts that give a corporation access to all of your IP even when working off the clock due to the nature of the employment contracts. Sometimes it's regulations killing industry, other times it's a lack of employee rights.

Had to log in after reading this thread. I almost feel like somebody is calling me lazy.

Been working since I was 13. Now approaching the age when most of the men in my family die of a heart attack. Bad knee, bad back, bad shoulder, bad circulation, and just getting old.

So I decided to live, at my advanced age, in an RV (moved to a tech city) which I've packed with 2 4U racks of network equipment (Cisco Routers, Cisco Switches, Cisco ASAs), 3 VMware servers, and some cool Ubiquiti stuff (keep leaning towards Vyatta cuz well, it's cool). On interviews I get recent college grads asking me things like the maximum size of a private information database store in Exchange 2010. I answer "Nobody is going to make it the maximum size on their own equipment, I'd split the stores and keep them around 2-300 gigs. Not that it matters if you have Office 365 and hosting your Exchange environment with Microsoft. Which you are looking at anyway". Overly confident college grads should jump off a cliff. Running around regurgitating textbooks questions. You wouldn't believe some of the stupid crap these guys ask.

I'm not lazy. Didn't sleep last night because I was rebuilding my network from scratch for the practice. I simulated the last corporate network I managed in it's entirety with a gazillion port groups in ESXi and complex routing, switching, VPN, Port Channels, etc. Setup a Netflow collector (Plixer, cuz it's cool), Websense filter, and I just included a Netscalar VM into my network because evidently these and F5 load balancers are all the rage currently.

I built that entire network, in one night.

Lazy,, lol.... But hey, you should see the look when my aging ass walks in to an interview in a shirt and tie while the other guys are in loafers and their shirt isn't tucked in while sporting their hipster beards. Maybe some of the older guys here know that look.

Nothing to do with being lazy. Sometimes life is just a bitch.

Anyway. I'm here to tell you age is a problem in the IT industry. That and it's getting harder by the day. As a nation we don't make anything anymore. All of those corporations wanted to make more jack or they simply couldn't compete and went overseas. It's not an overnight thing but in the long run feeling snarky about Powershell scripts ain't gonna save you.

originally posted by: farmville
There are so many jobs out there, people are just picky, prideful, and lazy. Beggars can't be choosers. You have to start from the ground up, and many people are not about that.

Can't paint with a broad brush. I have applied for over 80 positions. I have over 25 years experience in the IT field, but I have also applied for sales jobs, etc. I have even applied for entry level jobs just to get my foot in the door. I've lowered my salary requests to the 35k range after making more than 3x that amount before. Again, there's an age bias out there if you're over 55. I've had professional resume writers review my resume and have been told it is perfect. So, that's not the problem. I'm far from being picky, prideful, and lazy. Most of the jobs available are part time. I've even applied for part time data entry jobs. Nothing.

a reply to: Apollumi

Nothing to do with being lazy. Sometimes life is just a bitch.

That "sometimes" is showing up way too frequently.

Most of us older folk would gladly step down, leave it all to the young folk, and retreat to a rocker on the porch, where we could smell the blossoms, and drink lemonade. (Or something else.)

Problem is that they are not allowing retirement to be a possibility, and those younger folk are not being allowed to even leave home, so both generations are being screwed.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: farmville
There are so many jobs out there, people are just picky, prideful, and lazy. Beggars can't be choosers. You have to start from the ground up, and many people are not about that.

Can't paint with a broad brush. I have applied for over 80 positions. I have over 25 years experience in the IT field, but I have also applied for sales jobs, etc. I have even applied for entry level jobs just to get my foot in the door. I've lowered my salary requests to the 35k range after making more than 3x that amount before. Again, there's an age bias out there if you're over 55. I've had professional resume writers review my resume and have been told it is perfect. So, that's not the problem. I'm far from being picky, prideful, and lazy. Most of the jobs available are part time. I've even applied for part time data entry jobs. Nothing.

I hear you man. I quit a job recently that paid in the 100k range. Not sure that was the smartest thing I've ever done but the NDA keeps me from expanding on the reasons. All of which would be perfect for this site . So I start another job probably Monday with a little less pay.

But how long will the current job last? And, it took a while to get this. My bank account was sucking wind. After it is done, and it will be at some point, I know I am on my own. Too old to play this game anymore so I'll have to start my own thing. Can there be a business opportunity off of the coming virtual reality craze? Combine technologies such as solar, home automation, etc...

Luckily I'm in a city were people have money so there is a chance I can pull something out of my ass. The problem is I am pretty sure I know what is coming. We don't manufacture anymore, the service industry is leaving, we are big time in debt (both people and govt), many other nations like us far less now after what Shrubs adventurism kicked off.

I see a # storm of bad coming our way and a lot of it is financial. During the depression it didn't matter if you had skills because nobody could pay you. I think what we have coming is going to be worse than that. Perhaps I should be reading up on becoming a local warlord.