State police swiping motorist debit, prepaid cards to seize money.

originally posted by: Helious
Either way, your definition of the 4th is wrong, has been proven wrong more times than anyone can count on their fingers or toes by courts both local and federal across the country for more than 100 years. Because they are doing it anyway does not make it right nor just and least of all, legal and in good faith of the Constitution.

Where did I ever say I support what they're doing? I've been quite clear that I don't. However, what they're doing isn't illegal according to state or federal law (even if it goes against the spirit of the Constitution) and when you're pulled over by a cop is not the time to argue with them. Like it or not, if you're pulled over on the side of the road, you have no power to resist. The police can and will do anything they want to you. If something they do is illegal, it's up to you to go to court and sue after the fact.

a reply to: Helious

Searching a persons wallet requires the same standard that applies to searching a car or residence. The general rule is if you have to manipulate an object in order to see inside a warrant is required. There are exceptions when dealing with public safety or preservation of evidence and in those types of situations the justification bar is set high and the officer must justify his actions. If they arent justified fruit of the poisonous tree applies and any evidence derived can be thrown out by the court.

Consent, contraband in plain view, search incident to arrest are other possibilities. Arizona vs Gant has restricted law enforcements ability to search when we are arresting a passenger in a motor vehicle. Before we could search the car if arresting a passenger on a warrant. Now we are restricted.

Some of the rulings, like civil forfeiture, looks to be a reversal of inevitable discovery doctrine. Except in this case it looks like its reversed. Instead of being required to meet the demand of pc and a warrant to search the search is allowed and pc / warrant is an afterthought. IE if you find the evidence then surely the violation of the 4th is justified.

Im sure I'm in the minority when compared to what other officers think. I look at these rulings and look at how it applies to me if I'm stopped.

On a side note THE us supreme court ruled money is speech. Someone explain to me how, if that's their view, how prostitution laws in the US aren't invalidated by that ruling.

a reply to: GiulXainx

One of the things I've done/do occasionally for a living is antique car restoration/flipping. My last multiple car buy was for $72k, all cash.

Around this time last year, I bought and sold a King Kong 'Cuda (twin charged) replica. I'm actually slightly embarrassed to say what I paid for that.

The second largest purchase behind that was a '69 Charger Daytona and a '70 Superbird. That was nearing $400k. Cash.

It's not for everyone. I admit that. But I've also lost more money than I'd care to think about due to bank "errors" and would rather have access to my money than have access to some numbers on a screen.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: Azureblue

Ummmm.....And take that B.O.B. to where?.

Get out much?.

yes, I know, what to take and where to go that is the question. Especially for those like me who have non-believeing wife and family with very aged inlaws and 3 women. None of whom will stock anything. My family are wonderful people but will not plan for a rainy day until its pouring.

I think about this every day as I believe the rip point is getting closer every day.

Where I live going into the bush and living off the land is never going to a realistic option as its too dry, too hot or cold and no water so going out into the bush is going nowhere with very little.

staying home has beds and chairs etc but a match will soon see to that. A match will soon see to the bush in the summer time to so where to go and what to do ????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It was just a matter of time that the states would copy the Patriot Act. Finding ways to override the constitution.

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: GiulXainx

No.

They've been doing this in Tennessee for a while and the "privilege" gets abused all the time.

They're hoping to catch folks with a few hundred bucks on them or a nice car to plant drugs in so they can confiscate the whole rig.

The department gets the money they take so you can rest assured it's a free-for-all in some cases.

A local municipality did that and it was immediately halted after the story got out in the Nashville Tennessee news. We revolt politely when fascist/totalitarian bovine poop like this happens. And if that don't work then the people get even more militant about the situation. Tennessee is mostly made up of conservatives and the legal immigrants from Asia, India, South America and eslewhere are too. That is why people live here to live a sane life where common sense is applied even if some here have stretched beyond the naive of society's ceduilty. You can count on us except we can't seem to stop RINO Senators. We did put in tea party types for Congress and the state Gov is Teaparty with Lib Dems running the major cities here . WIth all that, even still a few liars have been sneaking in who will get the boot.


Edit to add


In Memphis they have a hub for S. American drugs and illeagal immigrant trafficing, that has made the national news where money was confiscated. I believe the TSA at a local airport DID take some money from a buyer of plants and shubery that still has not been given back. It was not lost on Tennesseans.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

I-40 is a huge drug corridor. Often stops reveal people transporting thousands in cash drugs and weapons between here and Amarillo.

originally posted by: GiulXainx
Since nobody carries around large sums of cash it makes it very suspicious to an officer.

I know this thread is a few pages back, but I had to comment on this right here. I can understand the suspicion, but to say nobody carries around larges sums of cash is completely wrong. Now it may all depend on where you live, but where I live people carry large sums with them all of the time.

In fact, there are hard-working people who work for tree-cutting services, mining, auto-mechanics, etc.....and they all have rather large paychecks that they will cash off of the bank it was written off of. What they do with them afterwards I have no idea, maybe they take them to their bank, maybe they hide it under their mattress, who knows.

In my town it's actually not uncommon to see people open up their wallets with many hundred dollar bills in them. It's actually annoying for many small businesses, because it's like everyone and their mothers have to continually break 100's which in turn causes them to have to hit banks constantly to get more change. It's mostly a man thing, but I've seen women with large sums in their purses/wallets as well.

So, by Oklahoma's beliefs, it would be completely ok to take away their paychecks all because they're carrying the cash on them. Sure, you can say it's only if you're found to be suspicious, but c'moonnn!!! Cops have proven time and time again to be manipulative to get what they want, and if you upset them in any way, they'll find suspicion.

a reply to: GiulXainx

Congratulations, you are exactly the type of person who exists to allow them to get away with this crap.

originally posted by: GiulXainx
a reply to: ColeYounger

They can find out if you obtained that money from an unverifyable source by checking your bank records.

Let's say you get pulled over and you arouse the suspicion of the officer and they find 7,000 dollars in your pocket. And you say I won it big in Vegas.

Well guess what... That vague statement now has to backed up with proof. If they check your bank statement and see deposits of lots of money from an ATM machine they are going to ask you more questions.

And again the reason why they can in fact do this now is because all employers are now required to send you money via direct deposit.

***at least in my current state it is mandatory that all companies pay their employees via direct deposit.

So, since this is the norm in my state, any innocent person carrying around that cash will easily hand over their bank card to prove that their transactions are 100% verifiable.

So guess what that opens up for the new underworld scheme of things. More false entries of bank records in Mexico. Which if someone in the United States is smart enough they would be getting themselves signed up through square up, and doing multiple transactions with dummy accounts to launder the money. Will it work? I don't know. Maybe it will but it would be easily spotted by the FBI. But not the police.

Taxi drivers see thousands of dollars every month. Uber drivers also go through that much money at any given time. I wonder why it is so hard to launder money in the US when all it takes is a bribe. I myself have thought critically about this for years but I never tried it. I just know that a connection could easily be made right then and there.


But again... The reason why this bill won't go away is due to the perception of your every day innocent civilian being more than willing to prove their innocence.

I don't see this one getting vetoed at all. Unless dirty politicians get involved.

Lol , dude are you even real....like is this really your thought process or are you just trolling? How can you roll over for this abuse it's literally jaw dropping. The point your missing is that it's none of the government's business. "Excuse me sir, care to explain what your doing with all that cash", my response...."do I know you, I don't think so, have a nice day".

a reply to: GiulXainx

Actually man I buy and sell vehicles on Craigslist all the time in which I've ridden around with as much as 12k in cash. What if you don't believe in keeping your money in a bank and regularly withdraw large amounts to keep in your home safe. I'm no free stater or anything and this isn't some keyboard warrior bs, but if a cop tried to take 12k from me I seriously think I would try to knock him out, run and plead self defense in court.

This is so unbelievably disgusting, unlawful, unconstitutional, and UN-AMERICAN.

I'm getting real tired of Tyranny...

Wow this is pretty crazy. Just when you think it can't get any worse. But this really is why I agitate against big govtstatism. Wish more people would listen.

It's still not a reason to start seizing cash from people. It's unconstitutional and Un American as someone else said. Welcome to the New World Order.

a reply to: Atsbhct

How to bypass PIN "protection":

"now son, you really don't want to sit here for four hours while we get the K9 crew, and you know, in all my time, they have never failed to find illegal narcotics when we think the driver was a problem. So tell me, do you want us to think that you're a problem kind of guy, or not?"

It is literally organized crime.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: roadgravel
Why would the suspect prove how it is used? The judicial system has to prove it is for/from drugs. That's the problem.

That's how it should work, not how it does work. Property charged with a crime has to prove its innocence, it has no constitutional protections. It definitely goes against the spirit of the law, but it's not against the letter of the law.

It should be.

In no possible way should inanimate objects be chargable with crimes---it's preposterous. Because such things don't do anything, they have no will. Only people have will and actions---and rights and property.

Do dogs get charged with crimes? No, but they certainly have more intent and self-directed action than people.

If property can get charged with a crime, then it should be illegal to own it, as a result of the 13th Amendment.

Something tells me this is not the whole story here. Never know what to believe anymore but even the mean and rude cops I've dealt with were fundamentally really just interested in the law. I honestly do not believe that law enforcement (as a whole) wants to steal anyone's money. They have had the authority to ruin your whole day/week/month/year for decades even if you weren't doing anything wrong and this rarely happens.

Think about it. Unless you have piles of money and resources laying around that you can afford to lose even being accused of a crime (or even givien a false traffic ticket could be a serious challenge for most people. A cop could do that to just about anyone if he didn't like you and didn't care about what's right. They generally don't.

I think it's a good idea to try and wait and see exactly what this is before you assume the cops have lost their minds.

originally posted by: Bundy
If they can only look at prepaid cards, what's the point? Who loads thousands of dollars onto one of those? Absolutely no one. Drug dealers don't put lots of money into bank accounts and i doubt they fill these things up full of cash either. It would be too suspect of a thing to be doing, they generally avoid that.

Sounds to me more like it's targeting users, the poor.

There are many people who don't have a bank account---and not always voluntarily. With financial regulations, banks will often refuse to provide demand deposit ("checking") accounts to many poor people, and when they do, they have abusive fees and overdraft charges that the poor have experienced before and want to avoid.

They're the types to have cash they cannot prove came from a job (they likely wont have) on one of those cards. The cash gets confiscated and they can't prove it's theirs or afford a lawyer to do anything for them.

All the people defending the law here even say they're just targeting those types of cards. Explain why if it isn't what i said in paragraph 2 here. It's all i can come up with that makes any sense at the moment.

What about a US Postal money order to yourself?

It may be a Federal crime for an unauthorized person to attempt to cash it. Unfortunately it each one is limited to $1000.

www.usps.com...

you know there is a simple solution for this. Camoflaging your cards. Easily done these days with a CNC machine and laser etchers. Simply print out a cover image and its etched into the plastic. Select from a list of real cards that are not finance related and then you apply them to your card to camoflage it. If it does not say debit or have a bank image,or Credit card logo on it there goes their cause to swipe it.

I can see someone making money offerring this service to card holders. Shoot Banks should start offerring cards with no info on them except the name and card number to fix this crap.

originally posted by: dogstar23
a reply to: DeathSlayer

This sounds highly illegal to me, and should easily be overturned (once a case makes it to the Supreme Court.) I guess this means you have to keep pay stubs, receipts, etc., for everything if you're going to travel through Oklahoma, unless of course you're willing to defend yourself with lethal force from anti-American armed robbers who can't be prosecuted.

Actually...it IS illegal!

TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

Justice Dept. link

Perhaps we should all have the FBI and a decent attorney in our phone's contacts...IF just a few cops get busted on a federal wrap...it will all stop, and more BS will be long in coming...