Collaboration Series: Transgenders and Discrimination.

a reply to: ketsuko

Even I take issues with parts - I do not want cis gender men in the ladies room, however data shows this does not happen. In hundreds of cities and over a third of states, these circumstances that theoretically horrify us just don't happen.

Also, society is either okay with nudity or its not. Europe has really adapted in different ways than we have, but I think the answer overall is more privacy in general. Curtains, private changing rooms, stalls. America is very afraid of nudity and homosexuality is way more common than trans - if we are worried about our kids or who is thinking what in the locker room, we should be seeking more privacy, not seeking to lock people out who feel uncomfortable otherwise.

I feel unisex bathroom and changing rooms with curtains, stalls, etc would just fix the issue. No labels, fathers and mothers can attend to children, trans won't be discriminated against. It wouldn't take building any more rooms - literally just change every sign to unisex and make more stalls, curtains etc.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well we are talking about things that sexually disturb us. A male enjoying my goods would disturb me - bisexual and homosexual is a lot more common, and adding them all together is statistically quite relevant. I personally seek out privacy anyways, just as I advise others to do if they don't feel comfortable in such situations.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Ah, but we are not allowed privacy and now we are allowed even less.

Can we then petition for private locker and shower rooms? Period? I feel oppressed by a society that forces me to have to share. It makes me uncomfortable and that makes me feel bad. Your new genderless utopia is discriminatory against someone who feels the need to be private, and it has been established that I do have a right to my privacy.

a reply to: ketsuko

Privacy can exist within a locker room - locked stalls and such. Why are we only talking about theoretical situations where everyone waves everything they have in the open?

I do believe in the right to privacy, though. I believe if a room has open showers, it should have private ones too. I believe in ground to ceiling stalls with locks, no one can see anyone unless those people freely wave all of their stuff around.

Of course, this just applies to government related buildings. Businesses can do and always have been able to do what they want.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: veracity

One of the biggest worries of people against such legislation is that bearded men who identify as men will be allowed in the woman's restroom..

This is not what the legislation allows, however, some people for some reason go down that route, and start advocating for bearded men to go where they like.

The legislation is for trans people - people who identity with the other gender and take all measures they can to actually be that gender.

Why some people say manly men should be allowed in the girls room is beyond me and it doesn't help the argument. It only hurts progress when liberals take a defiant stance and don't budge when it comes to such things.

I guess to me, if you are transgendered into a male from female or vise versa...then you would not be able to tell that it is a "man in the women's restroom" or a "girl in the boys restroom". If you had a hunch, lets say the girl had a bit of a mustache...you still wouldn't say anything or do anything (unless you just wanted to be a miserable twit) bc even girls have that issue with facial hair. Also, women can look very manly and vice versa. So if you are just offended to be next to an "ugly" person or someone that does not fit society's standards of male/female...then that is...the miserable person's fault.

a reply to: ketsuko

yes

You have the choice to not use public restrooms or showers

it is YOUR choice and no one, not even Obama can take that away from you

a reply to: veracity

That's basically my argument.

A topless body builder male with a huge beard should not be allowed near the woman's restroom. He's done nothing to look female or identify with that sex.

Large females and hairy females do exist though but people will always have to deal with something they're unsure of, not like we can fix every little problem.

We can ensure people wearing bras, skirts and such are allowed in the restroom most commonly associated with those if they choose though.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: veracity

All good! Thanks for stopping by

feel free to add anything you want, I just wanted to ensure you understood what position I am now taking. I wasn't taking it even a few days ago, but I've come to change my mind.

I really like how you titled this "Collaboration Series:..." and you have changed your mind

a reply to: deadlyhope

if a large body builder with beard and no shirt entered a female restroom...he is just a jerk and should be penalized. If he uses the trick "oh but I identified with a female that day" then he is a stupid jerk and probably will not get away with it.

However, we still need to protect American citizens from being segregated.

(ps. I use the men's restroom sometimes when there is a long line in the woman's restroom without identifying as a male, I take the chance I may get in trouble)

a reply to: veracity

I do plan on creating more collaboration series

Thanks for your input

a reply to: deadlyhope

One of the most commendable things a person can do is challenge their own beliefs in search of an informed and honest perspective.

I have actually went through something similar with the 2nd Amendment. I am a liberal and, as you might know, that all but requires me to be anti-gun.

However, I couldn't stand the hypocrisy of demanding the constitution be upheld for LGBT folks and then be anti-2nd amendment. It never made sense. So I studied it. Thought about it. And now I have my own conclusion that we shouldn't ban guns.

I am still "anti gun" but I am also a staunch ally to 2nd amendment folk. I don't want anybody to own a gun but I want them to have the right to own one.

Seeing a conservative do the same thing coming from the other direction makes my heart all sorts of warm. Thank you for this thread.

a reply to: Abysha

I'm less conservative but I understand your view point. I held a position that was different, looked at it in different ways, and came to a different conclusion.

It's great you did the same thing as well

Thanks for stopping by!