Immigrant criminals re-offend at higher rates than ICE estimates, report says

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Of course they do! Most criminals do, and people claiming that illegals don't is simply foolish propaganda. Lately, I swear, some want the criminals here.

Yes but immigrants reoffend at nearly half the rate of Americans. Making this article nothing but propaganda filled garbage...

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: DeathSlayer

www.bjs.gov...

The general population has a recidivism rate of 51.8%, if it's only 30% for immigrants it suggests they commit fewer crimes.

No, not "immigrants," ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. So, we're getting crimes committed, and then 30% of them are committing more crimes. All crimes that we shouldn't have to deal with because they shouldn't be here (at least, not on the illegal terms that they are).

So, while your logic is okay in the percentage regard, you fail to admit/accept that none of the crimes from these illegals should have been allowed to be committed in the first place.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: DeathSlayer

www.bjs.gov...

The general population has a recidivism rate of 51.8%, if it's only 30% for immigrants it suggests they commit fewer crimes.

No, not "immigrants," ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. So, we're getting crimes committed, and then 30% of them are committing more crimes. All crimes that we shouldn't have to deal with because they shouldn't be here (at least, not on the illegal terms that they are).

So, while your logic is okay in the percentage regard, you fail to admit/accept that none of the crimes from these illegals should have been allowed to be committed in the first place.

I think you are forgetting people sneak back in....

A chunk of those numbers are probably from illegals who WERE deported, then came back.

I really hate arguing for immigration when I could care less, Americans need those jobs/houses..


However I hate propaganda, and from the title down, that's what this is.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Sorry, I missed the word illegal in there. But the point remains, they're committing fewer crimes than actual citizens. That makes me less inclined to want to kick them out of the country as a group.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

My point to you was that they never should be coming in here in the first place, at least not illegally. We do a piss-poor job enforcing our immigration laws and protecting the border--that's my implied point.

People will always sneak here and there, but If we actually enforced laws and manned the border better, we'd have a much lower problem.

And trust me, I'm from Southern California--I get the problem with illegal immigration.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well, consider this: They are already criminals the minute they step over the border, breaking federal law. So, in reality, every single illegal immigrant that sneaks back across the border is a repeat criminal, and every single one is a criminal from the first step.

This is something people seem to disregard--for what reason, I have no clue.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: JoshuaCox

My point to you was that they never should be coming in here in the first place, at least not illegally. We do a piss-poor job enforcing our immigration laws and protecting the border--that's my implied point.

People will always sneak here and there, but If we actually enforced laws and manned the border better, we'd have a much lower problem.

And trust me, I'm from Southern California--I get the problem with illegal immigration.

Fair enough.. Doesn't change the fact the stat and article a propaganda purposefully meant to mislead people...

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Aazadan

Well, consider this: They are already criminals the minute they step over the border, breaking federal law. So, in reality, every single illegal immigrant that sneaks back across the border is a repeat criminal, and every single one is a criminal from the first step.

This is something people seem to disregard--for what reason, I have no clue.

Because laws are not always right...

When slavery was legal, were abolitionists criminals?

What about those who taught there daughters to read?

Everyone who has smoked pot?

Any American who speeds?

If you commit a rolling stop at a stop sign, are you a criminal?




Just cause some politician decided to make a law doesn't make it moral wrong.

The cases of legit people fleeing a cartel who want to become Americans are not criminals.

People who willfully hurt and steal from others are criminals.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Aazadan

Well, consider this: They are already criminals the minute they step over the border, breaking federal law. So, in reality, every single illegal immigrant that sneaks back across the border is a repeat criminal, and every single one is a criminal from the first step.

This is something people seem to disregard--for what reason, I have no clue.

It gets disregarded because it's a victimless crime. If anything it's a crime that only benefits society. It puts another person in our nation working, another persons worth of jobs they need filled, more income in the economy. Calling it illegal and prosecuting it is enforcing an irrelevant law, and harms us to do so.

Certain people who are illegal are bad people and we should get rid of them (or lock them up) but that's not the majority of them. I would rather focus on crimes in our society that actually matter.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Sure, laws are not always right, but they're not always wrong, either, because they affect non-U.S. citizens negatively. We have a very intelligent reason for not having wide-open borders, whether everyone chooses to accept that or not. I fail to believe that our immigration laws are tantamount to the drug war, or speeding tickets, or rolling stops. You're choosing to compare apples to squirrels in an attempt to prove my appreciation for the immigration laws wrong.

But here's your logical fallacy--in everything that you posted, there's not also a legal way to do those things. There is an absolutely legal and welcomed way to migrate to America. If you choose to disregard that and do it illegally, I have no sympathy. There are myriad ways to get into our country legally--excuse me if my empathy cup does not runneth over for illegal immigrants, especially repeat offenders who break other laws in our country, many of which have negative consequences for citizens.

People fleeing from a cartel can get asylum or refugee status--two ways to get here legally.

And by the way, illegal immigration is not always a victimless crime--people are affected individually, economically, culturally, and in many other ways. "Victimless crime" is not exactly an appropriate title to give illegal immigration.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Illegal immigration itself is always a victimless crime, I would go further and argue that it's even a benefit to society. Where victims come from is when those illegals then commit another crime to harm someone. You could argue that if they weren't here they wouldn't have committed that crime, but I don't think that's true. They would have just committed the crime in their home nation instead and in the end there was still a victim.

Also, the US is one of the hardest countries to get into legally so there isn't really a way to get refugee status from cartels. We don't even let informants from Iraq/Afghanistan into the country, instead we tell them tough luck after they publicly go against the terrorists and help us out.

Besides, even though Latino's are the face of illegal immigration, the largest group of illegal immigrants in the US now is Asians, and that group grows by the year. The US is rather pro Asian though because they have the reputation of having a strong family structure, a priority on education, and being hard working. Most illegals come into the US through air travel and come here legally, they become illegal when they overstay their visa. I would argue that that group isn't harming the country by staying here.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well, we can both argue what we choose, but I would say that you're overgeneralizing the individual people for the positive, and I'm generalizing the entirety of the situation and deciding that it has a net negative outcome for the U.S.

To each their own.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Sure, laws are not always right, but they're not always wrong, either, because they affect non-U.S. citizens negatively. We have a very intelligent reason for not having wide-open borders, whether everyone chooses to accept that or not. I fail to believe that our immigration laws are tantamount to the drug war, or speeding tickets, or rolling stops. You're choosing to compare apples to squirrels in an attempt to prove my appreciation for the immigration laws wrong.

But here's your logical fallacy--in everything that you posted, there's not also a legal way to do those things. There is an absolutely legal and welcomed way to migrate to America. If you choose to disregard that and do it illegally, I have no sympathy. There are myriad ways to get into our country legally--excuse me if my empathy cup does not runneth over for illegal immigrants, especially repeat offenders who break other laws in our country, many of which have negative consequences for citizens.

People fleeing from a cartel can get asylum or refugee status--two ways to get here legally.

And by the way, illegal immigration is not always a victimless crime--people are affected individually, economically, culturally, and in many other ways. "Victimless crime" is not exactly an appropriate title to give illegal immigration.

I think (assuming their intentions are good) Illegal immigration isn't morally wrong..

That doesn't mean you necessarily let them stay either though....but no need to label them as a "criminal" when they only really crossed an imaginary line and besides that were excellent people.

That is why the no amnesty thing is garbage. In the case where it is truly a great person who is beneficial to their community you should want to keep them!

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Illegal immigration itself is always a victimless crime, I would go further and argue that it's even a benefit to society. Where victims come from is when those illegals then commit another crime to harm someone. You could argue that if they weren't here they wouldn't have committed that crime, but I don't think that's true. They would have just committed the crime in their home nation instead and in the end there was still a victim.

Also, the US is one of the hardest countries to get into legally so there isn't really a way to get refugee status from cartels. We don't even let informants from Iraq/Afghanistan into the country, instead we tell them tough luck after they publicly go against the terrorists and help us out.

Besides, even though Latino's are the face of illegal immigration, the largest group of illegal immigrants in the US now is Asians, and that group grows by the year. The US is rather pro Asian though because they have the reputation of having a strong family structure, a priority on education, and being hard working. Most illegals come into the US through air travel and come here legally, they become illegal when they overstay their visa. I would argue that that group isn't harming the country by staying here.

So if we include the 44 countries included in Asia there were a total from 2005-2014 of 4,209,380 naturalized citizens, contrast that with the 26 Latin American Countries (not including the lesser Antillies) is 3,948,868 Naturalized citizens (2005-2014) Immigrations Statistics in xls format

Now compare that with criminal removals from the same countries (this includes at the border as well as the interior of the US) 44 Asian Countries 2005-2014 116,564 Removals compared to the 26 Latin American Countries 2005-2014 8,618,645.
ICE REMOVAL DATA

So in conclusion the 44 Asian Countries including "Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Russia" totaled 4,209,380 total naturalized citizens from 2005-2014 and of that only 116,564 were removed or apprehended at the border due to a prior criminal record in the US or committed a crime in the US (quick math that's 0.028% criminal element).

Now lets compare that to the 26 Latin American Countries 2005-2014; 3,948,868 naturalized citizens and 8,618,645 criminal removals and border apprehensions (those who have criminal offenses and deemed ineligible for entry) that means there is approximately a 218% chance that any person you meet from a Latin American country here illegally to be a criminal or to commit a crime and of those individuals a Mexican, Honduran, Guatemalan and Salvadorian have the greatest chance of being the perpetrator)

and you may ask who is the greatest offender in all this....

Mexico with a total of 7,013,525 removals from 2005-2014 and 1,536,795 naturalized citizens (2005-2014)

The next nearest in terms of bad to good Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador (combined at) 416,986 Naturalized 2005-2014 and (combined at) 1,312,762 removals and apprehensions for the same Period that's a whopping 325% chance that you'll get a bad egg.

So you ask where is Asia in all this..and ill tell you.... for every Asian country immigrant(legal and illegal) there is a .028% chance that there will be a criminal or someone who commits a crime.


Oh and i almost forgot.. here is the US census data estimates for FY2014 (percentages are of total US population

Hispanic or Latino, percent, July 1, 2014, 17.4%
Hispanic or Latino, percent, April 1, 2010 16.3%
Asian alone, percent, July 1, 2014, 5.4%
Asian alone, percent, April 1, 2010 4.8%

and an independent study:

"As of 2012, the population of immigrants in the United States illegally is estimated to be approximately 11.43 million, roughly 3.7% of the entire US population. 59% of the immigrants in the country illegally are from Mexico, and 25% of all immigrants in the country illegally reside in California. 53% of the immigrants in the United States illegally are male. In 2008, approximately 31% of workers in the roofing industry and 27% of maids/housekeepers were immigrants living in the country illegally. " Procon.org

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Of course they do! Most criminals do, and people claiming that illegals don't is simply foolish propaganda. Lately, I swear, some want the criminals here.

Yes but immigrants reoffend at nearly half the rate of Americans. Making this article nothing but propaganda filled garbage...

Not true! You have to assume that those not caught didn't offend, and that's not a safe assumption, by a long shot. That hey are illegal means they are also harder to locate and charge with a crime.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Of course they do! Most criminals do, and people claiming that illegals don't is simply foolish propaganda. Lately, I swear, some want the criminals here.

Yes but immigrants reoffend at nearly half the rate of Americans. Making this article nothing but propaganda filled garbage...

Not true! You have to assume that those not caught didn't offend, and that's not a safe assumption, by a long shot. That hey are illegal means they are also harder to locate and charge with a crime.

You can make the same assumption about American offenders, meaning those stats remain the same...

You can't only add BS hypotheticals to one side, when the hypothetical applies to both sides.


The title says it all...

"The rate was higher than ICE expected"

Higher than expected is propaganda for "the actual stat kinda goes against our point, so we are stretching the truth for click bait."

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Of course they do! Most criminals do, and people claiming that illegals don't is simply foolish propaganda. Lately, I swear, some want the criminals here.

Yes but immigrants reoffend at nearly half the rate of Americans. Making this article nothing but propaganda filled garbage...

Not true! You have to assume that those not caught didn't offend, and that's not a safe assumption, by a long shot. That hey are illegal means they are also harder to locate and charge with a crime.

You can make the same assumption about American offenders, meaning those stats remain the same...

You can't only add BS hypotheticals to one side, when the hypothetical applies to both sides.


The title says it all...

"The rate was higher than ICE expected"

Higher than expected is propaganda for "the actual stat kinda goes against our point, so we are stretching the truth for click bait."

I hate to break it to you but had you checked the sources for that oped piece you would find that the I information used as a source was 13 years old...DHS has not produced a study since 2003 on any demographic that reoffended after their release from incarceration.

I fail to understand how after all that CNN, Fox, and new media has done to purposely deceive the public at large that anything they say or write is in the least bit not truthful or slanted....do yourselves a favor and check the sources yourself and stop taking anyones word at face value.....

The piece was clearly disinformation of the worst kind.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
I think (assuming their intentions are good) Illegal immigration isn't morally wrong..

That doesn't mean you necessarily let them stay either though....but no need to label them as a "criminal" when they only really crossed an imaginary line and besides that were excellent people.

That is why the no amnesty thing is garbage. In the case where it is truly a great person who is beneficial to their community you should want to keep them!

Well, "morally wrong" and "legally wrong" don't always mesh for everyone, because morals are subjective, not objective. And 'good intentions' are always around--it just depends on which side of the table you are sitting. Hell, the Indian Removal Act was a "good intention" to some people, but certainly not for the native tribes.

Many illegals come over trying to make a buck so that they can send it home to their families--that's a good intention on behalf of their family. But as far as our economy and job market in the U.S. is concerned, that's a terrible intention.

So, it's a tough call when you talk about good intentions and morals, because their not always perceived in the same way, so I try to look at it on behalf of what's best for the U.S. overall, and illegal immigration is not good for the country.

I agree that, if an immigrant is truly beneficial to the community and society, they should be wanted to be kept--that goes for citizenry as well, but they're not good for the community if their foundation for being here is based on breaking the law.