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originally posted by: daskakik
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
You lost me on the whole "you are God thing".
Don't sweat it too much. Some are like that.
You have stopped making excuses or performing mental gymnastics to make things fit. That is a good start.
I noticed that earlier you said that you were a die hard researcher into WHY? What? How? and this is fine but what if there are things you just can't know?
Better yet, what if there are things you don't need to know?
Like the twist in the plot of a movie, nobody wants to watch the spoiler.
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
I probably didn't answer your question.
Here are some examples of what's wrong with the Jewish religion:
originally posted by: daskakik
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
I probably didn't answer your question.
No problem, they were rhetorical.
ItTextJust trying to get you to think about them or rethink them in your own terms before putting out any of my own ideas. Well, actually ideas that I came across that made more sense to me.
I was also a christian but I started at a young age. At around 10 I was really drawn into it and also wanted to find answers. In my early teens I had a couple OOBEs. These of course opened up the scope of reality to me and in my christian mind I thought maybe I was chosen to do something special. Maybe just spread the word but with a degree of certainty.
Dove into the bible and noticed many inconsistancies, never made the Paul was a shyster connection but it wasn't necessary. The doubt was there.
One day someone that I had never met but that somehow knew my mom handed me a copy of Carlos Castaneda's "Fire from Within" and said "I think you might like this". It showed a very different way of seeing the world. Up to that point I had looked into other things but I kept trying to shoehorn anything I came across into the bible's framework. At some point I felt that it was futile and just stopped thinking that the bible was the truth that I once thought it was.
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
I looked up the book you mentioned. I'm going to order it. Sounds interesting.
I really only took a few things away from those books and that is the idea of lucid dreams, the double (which sounds alot like oobes) and the idea that there is the known, the unknown and the unknowable.
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: daskakik
I really only took a few things away from those books and that is the idea of lucid dreams, the double (which sounds alot like oobes) and the idea that there is the known, the unknown and the unknowable.
Ok, I read some of Carlos' quotes online. Oh wow....um, talk about hitting home with me. Love his talk of "warrior's". Totally identify with that. Thank you.
originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
Yeah but then comes the bubble bursting, the universe, according to Castaneda, is predatory. Well maybe not that surprising since that is the way it seems.
The other thing is that, and I think people who follow Castaneda, or any of the new age type groups that include his ideas into their way of thinking, either missed or chose to miss a point in the books where Don Juan tells him that much of the practices were ad hoc and just used to keep him interested.
IIRC, Castaneda says something like (paraphrasing here) "none of that was necessary" to which the old guy says "of course it was necessary, how else was I going to get you to keep coming back".
I also remember him telling Castaneda that the real lesson was the work in lucid dreaming but that he never made it a big deal to keep him from obsessing over it.
I'm a bit torn between believing that Castaneda is telling the truth about what he experienced or if he made it up but I figure that it doesn't really matter. I have read critics say that he was seen in the library at UCLA on dates given in his books when he was supposed to be out running around with Don Juan. Either way it got me thinking outside the christianity box and it meshed better with the lucid dreams and oobes that I had experienced first hand.
Plus it was the second time my "truth" was standing on thin ice and I knew that if it plunged then so be it.
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
I used to think it was my job to defend God's word and his truth. Now, I realize it's just plain obnoxious.
This planet is beautiful....and deadly. It's one of the things that is a dead give away for it NOT being created by something loving. It's one thing to have humans with both good and evil in them. But, that doesn't explain the animal kingdom and that they eat each other. It doesn't explain the planet's upheavals. It doesn't explain innocents being murdered or killed by all kinds of ways. Paul's explanation would have one believe that "GOD" subjected this creation to bondage and decay, BECAUSE of Adam and Eve. Paul was a liar. So, WHY is it this way? I want to figure that out.
By the way, what did you encounter during your OBE's?
originally posted by: daskakik
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
I used to think it was my job to defend God's word and his truth. Now, I realize it's just plain obnoxious.
Everyone pushing their truth gets that way sometimes.
This planet is beautiful....and deadly. It's one of the things that is a dead give away for it NOT being created by something loving. It's one thing to have humans with both good and evil in them. But, that doesn't explain the animal kingdom and that they eat each other. It doesn't explain the planet's upheavals. It doesn't explain innocents being murdered or killed by all kinds of ways. Paul's explanation would have one believe that "GOD" subjected this creation to bondage and decay, BECAUSE of Adam and Eve. Paul was a liar. So, WHY is it this way? I want to figure that out.
I like the answer that I found in Robert Monroe's books.
By the way, what did you encounter during your OBE's?
My first lucid dream was a celestial scene with me sitting on pastel colored clouds and waves of music washing over me. Light the enveloped the place that felt like pure love.
I've had lots of OBEs over the years but they are usually just me popping out looking at myself and thinking oh did it again. Then just going out to explore a bit before being snapped back.
Now the first OBE I had was of me floating above my bed looking down at myself then flying upwards until I was in front of this being that glowed with the same light as my lucid dream of "heaven". I don't recall being told anything. Just thinking that this was the sign of the calling, for me.
Years ago I had a similar experience except it started out with me sitting up with my body remaining prone. I saw something dart across the room and land on my face. It started to suck at my left eyeball. Terrified is probably the closest word to describe that fear. The that came to mind were the ideas from castaneda's books and gnosticism about the archons feeding on emtions. Just like flicking a switch the fear stopped.
Whatever it was it let go, hung in the air for a couple of seconds and then spun and vanished into a corner of the room. I felt a pull upwards and in a blink of an eye I was in complete darkness. It felt like the place where I had seen that being of light during my first OBE but it was no longer there.
I was enjoying the peacefulness of nothingness when a thought entered my mind. There was a spot in all that darkness where I had to go back to. I thought about it and awoke with a jump.
originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: CB328
Religions are theories on paper.
It’s the people who distort the original teachings of the founders and don’t follow the best of the teachings regarding doing good to others.
Also the Jews distorted the idea of God’s universality and doctored some false idea that God made them, the Jews, his chosen people.
One thing Jesus did was refute that nonsense
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
originally posted by: daskakik
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
I used to think it was my job to defend God's word and his truth. Now, I realize it's just plain obnoxious.
Everyone pushing their truth gets that way sometimes.
This planet is beautiful....and deadly. It's one of the things that is a dead give away for it NOT being created by something loving. It's one thing to have humans with both good and evil in them. But, that doesn't explain the animal kingdom and that they eat each other. It doesn't explain the planet's upheavals. It doesn't explain innocents being murdered or killed by all kinds of ways. Paul's explanation would have one believe that "GOD" subjected this creation to bondage and decay, BECAUSE of Adam and Eve. Paul was a liar. So, WHY is it this way? I want to figure that out.
I like the answer that I found in Robert Monroe's books.
By the way, what did you encounter during your OBE's?
My first lucid dream was a celestial scene with me sitting on pastel colored clouds and waves of music washing over me. Light the enveloped the place that felt like pure love.
I've had lots of OBEs over the years but they are usually just me popping out looking at myself and thinking oh did it again. Then just going out to explore a bit before being snapped back.
Now the first OBE I had was of me floating above my bed looking down at myself then flying upwards until I was in front of this being that glowed with the same light as my lucid dream of "heaven". I don't recall being told anything. Just thinking that this was the sign of the calling, for me.
Years ago I had a similar experience except it started out with me sitting up with my body remaining prone. I saw something dart across the room and land on my face. It started to suck at my left eyeball. Terrified is probably the closest word to describe that fear. The that came to mind were the ideas from castaneda's books and gnosticism about the archons feeding on emtions. Just like flicking a switch the fear stopped.
Whatever it was it let go, hung in the air for a couple of seconds and then spun and vanished into a corner of the room. I felt a pull upwards and in a blink of an eye I was in complete darkness. It felt like the place where I had seen that being of light during my first OBE but it was no longer there.
I was enjoying the peacefulness of nothingness when a thought entered my mind. There was a spot in all that darkness where I had to go back to. I thought about it and awoke with a jump.
I apologize for going "Awol"....had a friend go into the hospital and had to take care of his son. It's been a rough few days.
I just want to say (before crashing out), that I've had many encounters with those buggers. I was a Christian then, and found that the name "Jesus" works quite well in beating their arses. But, those are other "long stories" and if I wasn't so exhausted, I'd expound on them a little more. I will say that I've come to the conclusion that something really evil and bad loves to not only mess with the humans on this planet, but feeds off it as well. It's the only thing that explains the "dualities" and predator type world we live in. Where a good god fits into that...well, I'm still seeking that out. But yea, I've done some serious battles with those things. When I stopped being afraid and started getting mad...they lost.
I haven't had any trouble from them since then.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I do appreciate it. Take care.
originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
The first times it happened spontaneously but then I had to find out if there was some way to make it happen. Tried many things but nothing really worked all the time.
To me there is a thin line between lucid dreams and OBEs. Lucid dreams are dreams where one becomes aware and the dream feels as real as this life while OBEs happen in this reality and you are able to see yourself and things happening here.
Robert Monroe claimed to have been able to use a set of binaural beats that would make people pop right out but that it was not used by his institute because it was too abrubt, instead other binaural beats were used to ease people into having OBEs.