Is willfull ignorance actually a disease?

a reply to: daryllyn

Maybe.

Personally I feel that all of this relativism is a big problem. People are so addicted to personal truths that are anything but.

Most of it is ignorance: they simply don't have the facts, or even the education to assimilate new facts and reevaluate their previous "truths" based on new (especially contradictory information.

None of that changes things which are actually true, however. We have just made a god of our own ignorance, and are largely unwilling to forgo sacrificing our fealty (or our children) to it.

originally posted by: Loveaduck
a reply to: Krakatoa


There is no such thing as "willful ignorance." No one chooses to be ignorant. They just are. It is a lack of education that produces ignorance. If someone is in denial about a certain fact, that just proves they do not have enough information on the subject. Being closed minded is not a disease but it is an infliction.

I respectfully disagree. When someone is presented with knowledge on that subject, something that can likely explain something in which they are seeking, rejecting that offer outright is willfully being ignorant of the information in front of them.

a reply to: Krakatoa

It's tough work to have a discussion these days with so many people seemingly taking ever more defined positions. This can generate resistance in the face of reason because it becomes personal and also a challenge to world views and ideologies. That applies to the current political climate too even though your focus here is aimed at the Mandela effect.

Sometimes people like to talk about ghosts and enjoy the creepy atmosphere it creates. There's a cultural and folkloric value there because it's been part of society for as long as we can remember. I think that's where the ME is coming from. Some of the participants are enjoying the suspension of disbelief and having fun imagining time-lines and reasons for disjointed memories. There's a good community side to it and where's the harm in that?

From their point of view, having someone insisting there's no ME and attempting to 'throw open the curtains' isn't welcome. It's like trying to enjoy a movie with a critic in the next seat pointing out the acting flaws or the goofs. It's like a candle-lit party and someone turns all the lights on.

It's no wonder that fans of the ME are resistant and resent the intrusions. I think in our quickness to be sceptical we often leave aside our empathy and, in some extreme cases, our manners too. For example, we have the Grey Area forums where people should be able to post something without being required to prove their claims. Some people insist on diagnosing them with mental illness and feel aggrieved when the target isn't sending fulsome PMs of gratitude. If the interaction was restaged in public, how many people would be ruthless enough to physically tell a person they were mentally ill? On the internet, it's almost a hobby for people to search out quirkyness and eccentrics and call them mad.

In my opinion, Mandela effect is more likely to be social and cultural with elements of subjective psychology. It reminds me of the Contactee Movement from the 50s or the Mediumship craze of the late 19th Century. It's memetic and contagious like any other sub-cultural phenomenon. Some proponents enjoy piggy-backing it to be anti-authority and flip the bird to skeptics. Hardened, sincere believers have the cognitive ability to reject their memories and put it down to faulty recollection and they choose not to.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Thank you for those neutral insights into this phenomena. Had the ME claimants simply and openly said, "we don't want an answer, we just want to have fun speculating on a more esoteric potential for what we are experiencing", I will bet cash money the skeptics in the thread(s) would have left it at that. Treat it as a spooky ghost story....and even joined in the fun of the mysterious. I know I would have.

a reply to: Krakatoa

There are a huge number of potential external causes of a lack of awareness. Higher reasoning functions can be affected by everything from interrupted sleep cycles, to exposure to mercury. The variables are too large, even when only potential exposure to certain chemicals and physical circumstances are concerned. When we add the possibility of an individual having come into contact with a memeological virus of some sort, a sickness composed entirely of bad data, the palate of potential truths is far too broad to sift without serious study, carefully selected control groups, intelligently constructed experiments and surveys, not to mention decades of spare time in which to conduct a thorough examination of the findings.

And have no doubt, that is what this problem deserves.

a reply to: TrueBrit

And I am learning, sometimes people are just *holes.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Not a single person ever born was JUST an *hole. Humans, even the simple minded among us, are complicated creatures.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Then those that appear to be, are sure hiding it well, or are suffering from another type of infection that attacks that part of the brain too. Which, is a plausible cause. Perhaps they just cannot help themselves, since it is the side-effects of the infection (like a snotty nose with a cold). That too would be an interesting research project to undertake I am sure.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Don't overlook the genetic aspect of humanities failings.

Humans have been purposely selectively breeding animals for centuries to improve the genetic traits of their stock.
Too bad they wont apply the lessons learned to themselves.

K~

It started about 10 days ago, or a little more.
I was remembering Herbal Essence, and not essences.
I also had several other MEs, that so many others.

I joined the most active thread on it, and it didnt take me long to realize, that going further into this rabbit hole would be extremely dangerous and I could visualize the end-game of that very rabbithole, and there was no way out.

I got really scared - naturally. Cause there is no way to either prove or disprove an ME.
So i grounded myself, realized it was just a curiosity of the mind, memory conformity, common misconceptions, and so fort.

I replied to the thread, with a conclusion that this is perfectly normal.
I expected many people to agree, and also shrug it off just like i had.

But, to my terror (yes, fu**in terror, ill explain-), people seem to dismiss my grounded theory that its perfectly explainable.

I tried my best, with a big sense of humor, to warn people of this rabbit hole, as I, with a great deal of 'vision', had seen the end-game; Insanity. (or at the very least, depression and panic attacks)

This was met with great refusal, and dismissal.
I genuinely did not know why.
I thought "they are just trolling.. trying to egg people on.. trying to fool the gullible".
So I got upset. Cause that aint right.
So, that is what I said.

I spoke up.
I got attacked, got called a troll, and worse.
Its all there, in that thread, for anyone to see.

Anyway, I got defensive. I tried my best to now try and debunk this. To the best of my ability.
well. It was not met well.

I was confused.
I didnt know who was trolling, who was being serious, who was gullible, who were just plain insane.
I had no clue.

But, I joined the skeptics.
Im positive that this is something completely natural and normal, so, I saw it as my mission to try and save the people from the end-game which I had previously seen.
It was futile.

days went on, and seeing as im only human, i mightve gotten a bit upset at times, angry even, perhaps demeaning at times.
But this was not my intention.
My intention was to save people from this dangerous rabbit hole that is the Mandela Effect.

Anyway, time went on, and to my horror - I saw more and more people - who had previously acted intelligent, grounded, and reasonable - slipping further and further down the rabbit hole.
I felt desperate.

I tried my very best to save them - I tried EVERY tactic.
Love, rough love, MEAN love, harsh love, nothing worked.

So, I became cold. Methodical.
I didnt know what to do, tbh.

All I knew, is that I felt I HAD to do something.... I couldnt just sit idly by - as people became gradually more insane.
Well - im only human.
I get frustrated just as everyone else.

Fast forward a few days, and Ive now personally seen two people, going from reasonable and grounded - to COMPLETELY lost.
Unreachable.
Certifiable - without being demeaning.
Magical thinking. Schizoid tendencies.
Im serious.
Ive studied psychiatry for a long time and am very familiar with these terms, so Im not just throwing out words I do not understand here.

Alot of namecalling (on me, by them) later, I just said F it.
I dont care anymore (although I still do).

What the F can I do.
They dont wanna get saved, nothing works, ive tried everything i know.
Lost.

So what is causing this?
Every single ME can be explained by simple logic and basic science.
It is VERY simple.

But thats been covered time and time again. It doesnt get anywhere. They REFUSE to accept this notion.
So whats left.

I am now CONVINCED there is a PSY OP at play here.
Possibly a drug or a virus or something contagious like that.
But who knows.

All I DO know - is that logic and reasoning bounces off like throwing rocks on a wall.
Nothing gets through.

So, to conclude this story - I concur completely with the ideas expressed in the OP.
This could very well be biological; but even if it is - or isnt - that detail doesnt really matter.
What does matter - is that these people ARE "infected" by something.
Either psychological or biological.
They are "affected" by it.

It is EVERYONEs job, to try and find out WTF is going on, and to rescue our lost humans.

Don’t know that I’d call willfull ignorance a disease, but rather a choice. In the case of polticians it often rises to the level of an art form. Of course, we’re talking about ‘willfull’ ignorance here, and not ignorance that one comes about honestly via a lack of sufficient gray matter, or damaged neural circuitry, or incessant brain-washing within the local environment.

IDK if it’s just me, or if there’s anything to it, but my impression is that we (humans) are becoming increasingly neurotic and irrational. It seems sometimes that anything goes these days, regardless of how outlandish and counterintuitive it may be, or that it may lead us down a potentially dangerous rabbit hole. It’s particularly acute in the political realm.

Then again, maybe it’s just my selective memory playing tricks on me. Maybe the good ol’ days weren’t that good after all, and we’re no crazier now than we were back then. One thing I do know, though, is it’s a crazy-ass world today!

One thought I’ve had regarding our deteriorating mass-mental-state is to do with the ever-increasing rate of technological growth and expansion. As our instant access to global scale information sources rapidly increases, our little heads are filling up too fast and our buffers are overflowing. Consequently, our overtaxed brains are page faulting all over the f*cking place, creating populations rampant with festering mental disturbances.

The end result of all that insanity in America is, we have an irrational electorate riddled with serious mental disorders, pissed off at the world, and faced with a decision to elect either Satan’s evil twin or Lizzie Borden’s twisted sister.

We’re done for...

originally posted by: daryllyn
"Get your facts away from my truth"

Truth is subjective.

The real problem is that people believe their personal truth to be fact. Emotion overrides their logic when confronted by anything that threatens that "truth".

Who did you even reply to. Can you even internet.

Some of us know truth. some of us prefer to be narcissistic liars. And well, be a toy for fools. Others prefer to ignore the likes of those ilk. Cant say I'm the latter.

Bring it on narcissists.