German Wind Turbines, Are They Efficient?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Phage

Efficiency and cost effectiveness are not the same thing.

I agree. Especially on a massive scale. The bigger the generator, the bigger the prop to turn it, the more wind to get it started, etc.

I was directing comments at the small scale of individual homesteads. Propellers aren't the best choice.

For instance, this design begins spinning at lower wind velocities, from any direction ( doesn't need to 'turn into the wind').

Image

Ummm...I really like the "eggbeater" design of wind turbine...I'm in the (slow) process of making a setup for my home...There's a great book..."Producing Your Own Power"...1974 Rodale Press...that has a section on how to make an AC governored wind generation system using a flywheel from a vehicle and used car/truck alternators/generators...(depending if you want an AC or DC system)...

I've secured an old Mobil gas station sign post...(1/2" sleeved welded tubular steel)...for my mast...

The next step is visiting the auto scrapper yard for the alternators and flywheel...The largest expenditure will be the inverter/converter and storage...if I decide to go that route...

The one pictured in the book uses two 12 volt generators for an output of 4800 watts DC...


That 3 blade eggbeater looks fairly easy to make...

Thanks for that design...


YouSir

a reply to: LABTECH767

My source says the two German turbines sometimes turn when all others in the area are still.

Wave generators are a good idea. Good ideas are as helpless in the teeth of a major storm as any other man made contrivance. They don't generate much energy when they're smashed up on the beach.

There are plans for tidal generation in the Severn Estuary. There are also astronomical amounts of silt transported up and down the estuary every tide.

30 million tonnes of fine silt is suspended in the Estuary's waters during a typical spring tide.

www.sonicsevern.co.uk...
I don't think even German engineering can cope with that amount of silt.

No turbine is efficient by definition.

" achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense"

They never come close to operating at capacity and are expensive per kilowatt.

As to if the German turbines work better than others, I have no clue.

a reply to: Rocker2013

. . . minimizing power consumption . . .

The best thing we can all do, and the one thing the centralised energy purveyors don't want us to do.

Decommissioning is played like a rigged card game. An environmental campaign was used as an excuse to avoid the cost of oil decommissioning in the North Sea. Now they're going to tow some of the rigs to Turkey. www.abovetopsecret.com...


Nuclear decommissioning can be very profitable, if the scams remain uncovered. They were going to put many tons of dried radioactive magnesium and other waste into (German) cast iron boxes, until someone pointed out a kid with thermite and a drone could ignite these ready made nuclear smudge pots. Now they're more sensibly casting the same waste into concrete. It's £200 million cheaper with concrete. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Geothermal doesn't stand up to scrutiny. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Small scale renewables can keep up a modest supply for home use. Any large scale project run by people looking for profit is going to be misrepresented, by experts.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I should put more effort into my titles.

It would appear the German turbines do work better.

a reply to: Kester

I read: German's With Turbines, Are They Efficient?
and thought, "well, German engineering is second to none... oh. Wind!"
The mind is a wonderful place. Instantly imagined German's zipping around the airways.

a reply to: Vector99

Other than that there is really no downside to a windmill, other than the birds that fly into them.

Dutch used them to grind grain. Water wheels have been used to turn machinery in factories and in the west, the classic windmill used to pump water from underground wells on farms. None of these used electricity but generated the power to run things we think we need electricity for today.

I agree wind is one better alternative to other electrical power generation like coal and nuclear. I don't know how many wind stations would be needed to power a city like one nuclear plant though. For that reason alone, it seems less 'efficient' in the long run, except what to do with spent fuel rods and coal tailings piles.

a reply to: YouSir

"Producing Your Own Power"…1974 Rodale Press...that has a section on how to make an AC governored wind generation system using a flywheel from a vehicle and used car/truck alternators/generators...(depending if you want an AC or DC system)...

Love the do it yourself approach. Ever read Mother Earth News? Used to be full of homesteading ideas to make things from others discard.

Don't overlook one source of inverters… uninterruptible back up power supplies for old style pc computers. They are self contained, requiring little power to charge internal batteries, then inverting it to AC to run household appliances. The circuits can be adapted to larger batteries (Marine are the longest lived, highest amperage) People are pitching their back up power supplies right now. I found several so far in this years spring cleanup campaign.

a reply to: Kester

Don't know 100% about just the wind turbines but this was posted in another thread.

So while wind turbines may not be 100% of the answer, perhaps a combination of wind/solar/hydro could work reasonably well.

a reply to: Kester

Good point, it may be simply down to superior aerodynamics for the German manufactured wind turbine's, either way that makes them more reliable so very interesting.

As for the severn estuary I did not know the amount of sediment suspension in the water and that is huge, I also wonder how much artificial fertilizer it delivers to the sea killing fish stock's but that is another matter.

When it come's to wave generators like the Original Duck which was invented by a very clever Scotsman they are a lot tougher than you think and are ankored to the sea bed, they have ballast systems as well with can be adjusted so no matter how rough the sea they are usually able to cope even locking up becoming rigid and submerged until the worst is over.

They work in an odd fashion as well, on one side of the duck the waves are choppy and being anchored to the sea bed the float's move up and down relative to one another moving armatures which then drive geared cog's delivering that motion to the generators inside.

On the other side of the duck they water is far more calm because it has litterally had the energy taken out of the waves by the Duck itself.

Back in the 70's when they were proposes someone in Whitehall fearing the impact on coal, oil and other energy prices sabotagued the public enquiry into the feasibility of building these structure around our coast and harvesting the naturaly abundent wave energy of our island, they did this by moving the decimal point on the figures to the right a few places and turning the actually reasonable cost of the proposed pilot scheme into a monstrous amount.

Had this fraud not happened in the government we would today be the most green country on earth as far as our electricity generation was concerned, Thatcher also would have had a far harder time selling it off as her argument about it costing the government would have failed as we would still have had to pay for our electricity but the government would have been making massive profit on a long term investment in this far cheaper energy source which of course requires no fuel, just maintainance and upkeep.

Though there are part's of the country were it would have harmed the ecology had we gone the whole hock with it there are in fact a great many region's where it would have helped the local economy and saved trillion's of pounds worth of property and land over that time period as well such as parts of the east coast were the sea may have been up to a 40 or more miles further out during the Roman period and were entire town's and even a city or two have been lost to erosion over that period.

www.bgs.ac.uk...
www.floodblockbarrier.com...
www.dailymail.co.uk... -devours-roads-villages.html

Now the duck or it's more up to date version's of wave generation technology would not stop this but it would drastically slow it down, that in itself would secure land prices just a few hundred meters from the edge of these eroding land area's and make investment, agrictulture and development far more enticing as the property prices rebounded and people moved back into these area's.

But of course we have a Bunch of Hooray Harries (hiding daddy's money in offshore trusts) and New Labour (false Labour) whom are more interesting in lining there own pockets and fiddling (Baroness Varsey as a prime example, once a militant now wearing mink and fur).

Think I shall vote Green even if they are not perfect.


Back to the subject, in area's of low erosion tidal barrages are another and possibly superior method, dam the estuary or place holding dams on the low sloping beach, as the tide comes in the water is channelled through a sluice driving a turbine and filling the reservoir, as the tide goes out the water flows back out of the sluice from the reservoir and once again drives the turbine, couple this with wave generators further out were the waves have enough energy to drive them and duel wave and tidal power system and then couple it with wind turbines on some of those old gase field's out in the north sea far off shore and away from wildfowl sanctuary's and Eco Britain the power provider of western europe is born, But NOoooo we have more intelligence politician's whom know what is best for us even if it is only best for them eh, you get my drift, I hate politician's more than a waiter hate's that fly which keeps upsetting his soup customers.

Wind turbines are actually environmentally friendly compared to coal and other energy source. Not sure if a German turbine is more efficient, but remember to have a tall turbine pole. In order to save some pennies, many people set their turbines below tree level and complain about its lack of energy production. It should be 60-90 ft.