Secular activist is killed after criticizing militant Islam

a reply to: reldra

The teachings of Mohammed do no such thing. Just as the teachings of Jesus do no such thing.

I think the teaching of Mohammed is summed up quite well by this ex-Muslim.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: laminatedsoul
Well if you don't say anything about Islam, if you don't question it in any way shape or form, if you don't try to discuss problems stemming from a literal interpretation of the Qur'an, if you don't look at them in the street, if you don't celebrate your infidel religions holidays or other things, if you don't wear a cross, if you stop eating pork products, and if you appease anyone carrying the shahada, then they won't kill you. The religion if peace won't harm a hair on your heads. IF...

It's not that hard, you know..

*hands out KY jelly*

Now that is just ridiculous. You win the award for stereotyping extremists into normal Muslims who outnumber Christians about 10-1 I would think. Why is that?

Who outnumber Christians 10-1? Right now Christians outnumber Muslims, 2.1 billion to 1.7 billion, but that will change by 2070. You must be confused that there are way more Muslim extremists than Christian extremists.

Muslims will outnumber Christians by 2070, ending two millenniums of Christian dominance going back to the birth of Jesus Christ, projections released Thursday by the Pew Research Center show.

www.usatoday.com...

a reply to: UnBreakable

How many Muslim extremists are there in the world, again?

For that matter, how many Christian extremists in the world, again?

I mean, to make a statement with that kind of certainty, you must have those facts close to hand ... right?

Mind sharing?

a reply to: WeRpeons

Sure ... and by the same logic, I guess the teachings of Jesus Christ are summed up by this guy:



Fascinating.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I never said the Christian religion doesn't have any questionable and violent teachings. They were responsible for killing hundreds of thousands during the Christian crusades! Many religions have violent teachings and are the catalyst for many mass killings and wars. However at the present time, were dealing with Islamists who are following a strict and radicalized interpretation of their religion. Some are actively organizing for Jihad! This isn't just talk, they're acting out.

This guy is interpreting the same strict beliefs mentioned in the Christian religion. However, the difference is radical Christians are not organizing, taking up arms and killing homosexuals! They're not dropping them off buildings head first into the pavement like some Islamists! What's worst, is they get crowds of believers who crowd around to watch such an atrocity!! If Christians did this, they would be met with the same outrage that people have against Islamists. I also believe many Christians would drop their beliefs if the religion started to engage in killings.

a reply to: WeRpeons

You linked one video outlining one person's opinion and claimed that made a statement about Muhammed.

I linked one video outlining one person's opinion and implied that if you're correct in your claim, then his statements reflect Christ.

Hint: Reductio ad absurdam

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: TechniXcality

Because they believe it is Allan's will, how can you tell someone who blindly believes that Allan is waiting for him with some children to rape and is excited by that,

Dammit Allan! We are sick of your sh1t!

Uh-oh....

originally posted by: reldra
Oh do modern liberals fail us? I had the idea modern liberals were the only thing holding back blind discrimination and hate. Please do tell why you feel otherwise. It is progressives, not regressives. Each period in history has had conservatives fighting progressives and the conservatives have, little by little, lost every time. Just as they lost on the vote for women. Wrong: every, single, time.

Throughout most of history, conservatives have bitterly fought liberals of their day, in defense of principles of dead liberals.

The conservative line, in history was pro-priests, pro-state-religion, pro-monarchy, pro-slavery, pro-aristocracy.

There's one big exception where the conservatives were right: Bolshevism.

a reply to: slider1982

And when this news dropped without any real information being made public it was already being labelled as a "far right" act by native locals. I did not hear much when it was proven that a Muslim man was the actual perpetrator?

There have been regular updates on the BBC News website and on News broadcasts.

And this thread is regularly updated;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have two friends that actually read the Qur'an.....

Most copies of The Quran are in Arabic.

As the vast majority of Muslims can not read Arabic they then rely on some 'informed' Imam or other 'learned' cleric for the teachings within The Quran - and obviously that is open to much interpretation and dare I say it manipulation.

It is pretty much like The Bible before The Reformation which was written in Latin, a language the vast majority could neither read nor write.

As many say, I think Islam itself is very much at a crossroads and resembles Christianity of around 500 years ago along with all its divisions, barbarism, injustice and inequalities etc.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Islam is a generic set of ideas, practices, rituals, history, social and cultural norms, etc., that has a wide range of individual and local interpretations, variations, schools of thought, etc. etc.

Exactly. Let's talk about now. In this world, and not a hypothetical universe.

Are there some, today, who authentically believe that their religion compels them to engage in a supremacist conflict against non-Muslims, and that extreme violence in service of this cause is not just allowed, but a moral imperative? Yes. Is there textual support for such an interpretation, and significant historical scholarship and examples supporting this? Yes. Is there textual support for less militaristic interpretations? Yes.

Is there textual difference between Islam and Christianity which would support a non-symmetrical distribution of interpretations? In truth, yes.

How many of the apostles were warlords?

Old Testament certainly also has its share of warlords, but the religious attitude towards them is different in that they were often regarded as flawed humans, and not paragons. The prophets were not leaders of conquest.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
But for some reason, people say those demographics did it in spite of their alleged beliefs, but only Muslims do it because of our beliefs.

The problem happens when such people tell the world that they engage in violence because of such beliefs, and encourage others to follow them. When such people intentionally separate out victims by their religion and kill the ones not following theirs (www.cnn.com...), that certainly looks like religiously motivated violence.

Radicals are always eager to tell everybody why they do what they do----they have a burning urge to make self-justifying manifestos: from Lenin, to Hitler, to Mao, to bin Laden. Do you disbelieve that Lenin murdered the bourgeois and the Tsar because of Communist Bolshevik beliefs? Osama bin Laden has never once lied.

Right now, in the current environment, who is doing what to whom?

a reply to: Forensick

You are an American an therefore you are complicit in the nuclear bombing of innocent Japanese cities in WW2. About 250,000 innocents died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the hands of the Americans.

Wow.

I'm pretty much certain that he wasn't born at the time of those bombings and had absolutely zero input whatsoever in the decision to release those bombs - rightly or wrongly is really irrelevant.

Do you blame all Germans alive today for The Holocaust?
How about todays Spanish for their total obliteration and annihilation of the Inca, Aztec cultures?
Or what about the atrocities committed by the Japanese themselves in Nanking and elsewhere in China as well as their treatment of P.O.W.'s?

The list is endless.
Nearly every nation / civilization has committed absolute horrors on others, unfortunately its a far too common occurrence.

So my questions are; Why your particular hatred / dislike for Americans and why do you single them out?

The sins of the father should not be laid upon their children!

This may be going off on a bit of a tangent but I think this argument is really one of the most ridiculous I've ever come across in all my years here on ATS and elsewhere and is typical of the self-hate and just blind hatred many have for the USA and the American people.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not American.

a reply to: mbkennel

I wasn't talking about a "hypothetical universe" as you weakly attempt to imply ... although there are those here who patently are, referring to 1.6 billion people as if "they" all are exactly the same, think the same, behave the same, etc.

Like you, for example. You offer a series of loaded questions, answer them, and seem to want to pretend that is somehow an objective description of "the real world." It is not; it is a description of your personal belief structure.

Reference your use of "some" alluding to a group that only you seem to be able to describe.

Can you describe the people you are talking about who "authentically believe ..." et. al.? Specifically? Who are they? Where do they live? What are their names? Do you know them personally? Or are you acting on what seems to be, to you, as "reasonable assumptions" ... in your own mind.

IN your own mind, rather than in the real world.

"Textual scholarship"? That supports what ... your assertion that there is a group that believes as YOU think they do?

Please quote this scholarship that proves your own beliefs are real rather than the product of your "hypothetical" imagination.

As to the gibberish of "Is there textual difference between Islam and Christianity which would support a non-symmetrical distribution of interpretations?" ... define your terms, or at least, serve some dressing with your word-salad.

"How many of the apostles were warlords?" What a specious question! How many of the "hypothetical" apostles were overweight, left-handed or homosexual? Do you know? Or is that answer another factor of your "hypothetical" reality?

I do know that their "hypothetical" leader claimed that he came not to bring peace, but a sword ... (Matthew 10:34, et. al.)

/shrug

Seems like you're the one here living in "hypothetical" land friend ... and that's fine ... I don't know what you're on about.

Feel free to believe what you want, just don't represent it as fact.

You do realize Islam is the only modern religion where the founder of it used rape, murder, & theft as a means to spread His religion. I don't think Jesus or Buddha would approve of using violence as a means to spread their teachings.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: slider1982

And when this news dropped without any real information being made public it was already being labelled as a "far right" act by native locals. I did not hear much when it was proven that a Muslim man was the actual perpetrator?

There have been regular updates on the BBC News website and on News broadcasts.

And this thread is regularly updated;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have two friends that actually read the Qur'an.....

Most copies of The Quran are in Arabic.

As the vast majority of Muslims can not read Arabic they then rely on some 'informed' Imam or other 'learned' cleric for the teachings within The Quran - and obviously that is open to much interpretation and dare I say it manipulation.

It is pretty much like The Bible before The Reformation which was written in Latin, a language the vast majority could neither read nor write.

As many say, I think Islam itself is very much at a crossroads and resembles Christianity of around 500 years ago along with all its divisions, barbarism, injustice and inequalities etc.

Could you imagine the backlash that would have ensued if the perps that killed the shop keeper where white with far right connections?, you would not hear the end of it yet we have a extremist that has killed by all accounts a genuine hard working guy that has been in the community for over 2 decades yet we have not had the "hour long special reports" or anything even remotely like that. The guy was killed for wishing local people a "happy easter" oh but Islam does not have any issues nothing to see here move along it is just something that happened??..

Second point re translation..

Again you have to look at the mind set that people have to believe what they are told then?. The averge joe has every bit of information in the palm of their hand 24 hours a day 7 days a week, if they cannot question suspect teachings then the whole idea that this crap will change is nothing more than a pipe dream. What it could be however is justification for what many people Really want to do and that is basically live out their barbaric fantasy to the degree that they where indoctrinated to and they can get away by telling themself that "god wants me to do it". Yes I do see a similar situation to what has happened to Christinanity 500 years ago and that is very worrying, look at what we have learned and understand in that time yet we are having the same issues as we did when we where little more than rampaging peasants.. Is there not something very wrong with that picture??..



RA

originally posted by: WeRpeons
However at the present time, were dealing with Islamists who are following a strict and radicalized interpretation of their religion.

Erm, no.

In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington State. The men were anti-Semitic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks will hasten the ascendancy of the Aryan race

In 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks

In 2015, Robert Doggart, a 63 year old mechanical engineer, was indicted for solicitation to commit a civil rights violation by intending to damage or destroy religious property after communicating that he intended to amass weapons to attack a Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York.[110] Doggart, a member of several private militia groups, communicated to an FBI source in a phone call that he had an M4 carbine with "500 rounds of ammunition" that he intended to take to the Delaware County enclave, along with a handgun, molotov cocktails and a machete. The FBI source recorded him saying "if it gets down to the machete, we will cut them to shreds."

In November 2015, Robert Lewis Dear killed three and injured nine at the Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado.[119]Dear voiced on several occasions his support for radical Christian views and interpretations of the Bible, and praised people who attacked abortion providers, saying they were doing "God's work."

Do I need to mention Dylann Roof, or the fact that he was inspired by CHRISTIAN neo-confederates?

And these are just the instances we actually know about, there are plenty of others out there being investigated right now, plenty of "Christian" groups being tracked and monitored, plenty of "Libertarians" and "militias" who all wave their Bible around in one hand and a gun in the other while reciting bs from a distorted version of the Constitution.

So, unless you want to start claiming that ALL CHRISTIANS in America are responsible for the violence and hatred of a minority, you cannot possibly claim that your position is in any way stable, logical or rational.

originally posted by: jkm1864
You do realize Islam is the only modern religion where the founder of it used rape, murder, & theft as a means to spread His religion. I don't think Jesus or Buddha would approve of using violence as a means to spread their teachings.

You obviously haven't read much of your Bible, if you had you would know that the Bible condones child marriage, rape, the murder of children, slavery, war...

Don't be thinking the Christian history is any different to that of Islam. All Abrahamic religions have these disgusting little things hidden within them and there is no way on Earth you can claim otherwise.

The difference here, of course, is that you pick and choose these things from the Muslim faith as "evidence" of something, while pretending that none of this ever existed in the Christian faith.

And really this is all meaningless in whatever religion you throw a spotlight on, because our LAWS override any bs any religious nutter wants. No religious person has any ability to do any of these things, because these things are ILLEGAL in our nations. Not that people would want to of course - except the Muslim sociopaths, and the Christian sociopaths all across America who regularly hold events where they preach death and destruction on various groups of people, and yet are somehow entirely ignored in their threats...

a reply to: Rocker2013

You're comparing apples to oranges! I'm speaking about a hell of a lot more Islamists who believe and condone Sharia Law, physically attack, rape, and kill in the name of Islam! Sure, they're are radical people in a lot of Christian organizations that take it upon themselves to become radicalized and twist their ideology and than act it out. It's definitely not to the extent in which radical Islamic terrorists are actively recruiting Muslims to commit Jihad!! We don't see Christian organizations militarizing and taking over a country, killing innocent men, women and children. Using them as human shields and raping women! We don't see Christian organizations reverting back to the Christian crusades! If that was the case, your argument would hold water, but of course there's absolutely no comparison.

In my honest opinion, no religion has a place in this world where it's constantly being used to control, divide, judge, discriminate, torture, maim, bilk followers out of their hard earned money (how many well known preachers are millionaires), terrorize, kill, cause wars and using their ideology to justify laws that affect everyone.

It's amazing to me that anyone would still proudly profess their belief in a religion that drives some people to kill in the name of their God! It's like belonging to a street gang! Just because you don't engage in robbing, selling drugs or killing people makes it ok to consider yourself someone who is peaceful, yet you still wave the banner of belonging to that gang! Doesn't make any rational sense.

I was raised a Catholic. Heck I was even an alter boy who served masses everyday of the week! I went to a private catholic school up until the 6th grade! I came to the realization after seeing and experiencing the hypocrisy of that religion, that it did not fit with my spiritual belief of a loving God. I made a personal decision to no longer be a follower of any religion.

Just because someone goes to church every Sunday or professes their faith, doesn't mean their a good person. I witnessed that a lot during my days working along side priests. I don't need a religion to treat people with respect, consideration and to help out my fellow man. I believe love doesn't come from religious ideology, it comes from within.

I still believe in a God or a Supreme creator. Logically, someone had to be the catalyst to create life and the universe. I believe that a loving peaceful God wouldn't condone any of the violence, false hoods, and killings that religions profess.

First, there simply is no version of "God" in any religion related to Christianity, Islam or Judaism that can be accurately described in any objective way to be loving and/or peaceful.

Second, it's so easy to categorize the actions of non-State "guerrilla terrorists" as representing the actions of Islam, but, the same folks making such generic statements would utterly balk at a similar (and actually far more apt) comparison that the nation-states of what used to be called "Christendom" (i.e. the Christian West - UK, US, Europe) have been invading and killing Muslims on a world-wide scale for the last century far out of comparison to anything the "Islamist terrorists" have accomplished.

... and while many of you will quickly try to claim that the US and UK are not "Christian" the facts don't back up your case: 70-80% of Americans are Christian, as are 65% or so of UK citizens ...

Good for the Islamist goose; good for the ganders of Christendom.

originally posted by: jkm1864
You do realize Islam is the only modern religion where the founder of it used rape, murder, & theft as a means to spread His religion. I don't think Jesus or Buddha would approve of using violence as a means to spread their teachings.

Buddha, no. However, christianity and judiasm are filled with violence. Within the holy books, and within the believers actions throughout history.

Its about time we ended these religions. Unless you guys just enjoy arguing back and forth about which religion is less violent and more truthful. Like endless fools.