Brussels Terror attack Brothers Known To Police "AGAIN WITH KNOWN"

a reply to: Flatfish

I think you just hit the nail on the head with that.

Its all very well and good the police and intelligence services knowing about this people but what are they to do about them. They cannot be arrested before the commit a crime and its not always feasible for them to keep every one of them under constant surveillance.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Flatfish

I think you just hit the nail on the head with that.

Its all very well and good the police and intelligence services knowing about this people but what are they to do about them. They cannot be arrested before the commit a crime and its not always feasible for them to keep every one of them under constant surveillance.

Maybe the safest thing to do then would be for the government to have anybody they might think could be a terrorist rounded up and held without charge just in case?


Is it not better to be safe than sorry?

a reply to: nonspecific

In the UK under the terrorism act you can be held for up to 14 days with out charge thats about as close as we are to that.

I dont think a blanket holding for indefinite amount of time would fix anything additionally quite a lot of people would probably find themselves in jail for no reason. For example there have been stories of students studding terrorism who have been arrested on suspicion for the material they are looking at only for it to be discovered later it was as part of academic study.

And thats not to even get into the civil liberties issues.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: nonspecific

In the UK under the terrorism act you can be held for up to 14 days with out charge thats about as close as we are to that.

I dont think a blanket holding for indefinite amount of time would fix anything additionally quite a lot of people would probably find themselves in jail for no reason. For example there have been stories of students studding terrorism who have been arrested on suspicion for the material they are looking at only for it to be discovered later it was as part of academic study.

And thats not to even get into the civil liberties issues.

Sorry about that, I went a bit Daily Mail for a moment there.

It gets under your skin after a while.

I'm not talking about taking people in who may or may not be radicalised, I'm talking about the people they know for definite have been to Syria. We have a few hundred who have returned here in the UK.

I understand the argument while they are being watched info can be gathered but at the same time they are free to recruit others. A member of the Police said not every person in the UK who has returned can be watched 24/7 as there just isnt the manpower. Then again a lot goes on that we dont know about. An electrician whi came to my house recently was talking about houses he goes in on an Estate near where I live. He said there were lots of dodgy things going on. He said several of the council houses looked empty but were in fact rigged up with surveillance equipment pointing at certain houses they were watching. Probably to do with drugs but then if they can do this for drug rings sure they do so much more with regards to terrorists, hooefully!a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

a reply to: nonspecific

See, my opinion of this, is that my liberty, the ability to live free, comes at the cost of my safety, and furthermore, that my liberty trumps every other consideration. I do not care if I am safe. Nothing is safe. Crossing the road is a dance with death, I suck in poison with near every breath, the water down here is full of narcotics, flushed through a system which does not filter for them during the recycling phase of its journey, and then there are the run of the mill, non-political, unaffiliated loonies wandering the place, looking for any excuse to mess someone's life up.

It's a dangerous world to live in. Safety, security...meaningless illusions are all they really are. But liberty is a real thing, that can be had as long as everyone is more prepared to die because they lived free, than they are to live as vassals to a power structure that has far too much ability to meddle in our affairs. Remember, many of us members here on this website, would be considered extremists by the measure of the Home Office. A little something to ponder. Meanwhile, I have work to do.... To the grindstone!

a reply to: anxiouswens

Why just Syria though,

Sure if you are taking trips to syria its going to cast some suspension but then there are also people returning form Pakistan who could have been to training camps or people who have perhaps travelled through Turkey or other countries to places where they can meet up with ISIS radicals. Those people are much more difficult to track down and they are also probably the guys who are really dangerous because they go out of the way to hide their tracks.

We simply cannot put everyone under surveillance no matter how much manpower there is, although we could always do with more manpower its never going to be enough.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: nonspecific

See, my opinion of this, is that my liberty, the ability to live free, comes at the cost of my safety, and furthermore, that my liberty trumps every other consideration. I do not care if I am safe. Nothing is safe. Crossing the road is a dance with death, I suck in poison with near every breath, the water down here is full of narcotics, flushed through a system which does not filter for them during the recycling phase of its journey, and then there are the run of the mill, non-political, unaffiliated loonies wandering the place, looking for any excuse to mess someone's life up.

It's a dangerous world to live in. Safety, security...meaningless illusions are all they really are. But liberty is a real thing, that can be had as long as everyone is more prepared to die because they lived free, than they are to live as vassals to a power structure that has far too much ability to meddle in our affairs. Remember, many of us members here on this website, would be considered extremists by the measure of the Home Office. A little something to ponder. Meanwhile, I have work to do.... To the grindstone!

Believe me I would be the last person to suggest such a thing in anything other than jest of the highest order.

I have for the past 5 months allowed a friend of mine who was imprisoned for sedition and is on all manner of "lists" live in my house, I have many friends who are on similar lists for protesting and speaking out against the government in many varied ways and that's just the people I know never mind my own history of speaking out against the things I feel are unjust about this country.

I imagine my posts here would be enough to put me away should they ever decide to round up the dissidents!

just throwing in my 2 cents fwiw

As soon as a witch hunt commences and then suspects start to get locked up there will be two more to take their place.
The fight against this kind of terrorism is a fight against a sick and twisted ideology.
Witch hunts...lock ups without trial...division based on faith, feed the ideology and breeds new recruits.

a reply to: TaleDawn

Europe is getting pretty pissed. Weapons from there being used in attacks, sanctuary, all of it.

So far the EU is only good at coordinating a lottery, not much else.

Oh and Eurovision.....no wait they always had that.

How about, you raid these areas? Wait, what time is it?....You know there is a law that they cant raid a home between 9pm and 5 am? YUP.

Pretty cool huh?

originally posted by: TaleDawn
Brussels Terror attack Brothers Known To Police "AGAIN WITH KNOWN"

This is getting irritating and almost to a point should we even believe the official news media version on it?

All News media is reporting now that these two Brussels Terror attack Brothers were Known To Police long before the attacks happened but they did nothing.

Again with the usual "Oh they were known to police" nonsense.

Why is this getting irritating? Just because someone is known to have Jihadist beliefs, or whatever, you can't lock them up unless you have evidence they are guilty of something. If we allow people to be arrested without any evidence of guilt we set a very dangerous precedent for the rest of society - in short, we create a Police State.

a reply to: Flavian

Just because someone is known to have Jihadist beliefs, or whatever, you can't lock them up unless you have evidence they are guilty of something

And that is why that will change. If you have Jihadi beliefs you will not like living in the part of the world you are currently at religious war with. Well, yes, but only because YOU ARE AT WAR WITH THEM and it makes it easier to carry out.

Are you freaking serious?

Who said arrest. EVERYONE IS SAYING DEPORT!! BAR admission.....

This is why we are having an ideological revolution that ALL extreme left idealist will lose. You must be insane.

Are you REALLY more concerned about Jihadis OVER Europeans in their homes?

Oh damn.

Wow.

EDIT TO ADD:
A police state? PEOPLE ARE CONSTANTLY DYING !!!!!!

No, really. ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Well you heard it folks.

#jihadi lives matter, until they blow themselves up in an airport near you.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Flatfish

I think you just hit the nail on the head with that.

Its all very well and good the police and intelligence services knowing about this people but what are they to do about them. They cannot be arrested before the commit a crime and its not always feasible for them to keep every one of them under constant surveillance.

Maybe the safest thing to do then would be for the government to have anybody they might think could be a terrorist rounded up and held without charge just in case?


Is it not better to be safe than sorry?

Sounds like a combination of "Pre-Crime" and GITMO.

Do you think there might be some "Blowback" associated with that kind of policy?

Would we also arrest and hold without charge, every "known" anti-govt. gun nut that may be inclined to stage armed protests on federal land?

Or, how about everyone on our national no-fly lists or terrorist watch list, do we arrest and hold them without charges too?

Or were you just talking about limiting your policy to "Known" Muslims?

a reply to: tadaman

Who said i was more concerned about Jihadis? Wow, talk about seriously missing the point with blind hatred. The point is that you can't lock people up without evidence of guilt. If you start allowing that, you open up all sections to the same controls. For example, that lady looks like she might shoplift - lock her up! No, without evidence there is no guilt.

As to deportation, again that is difficult. Many of these terrorists (of an Islamic leaning) are home grown. So where do you deport them to? If someone has lived their entire life in Belgium, where do you send them to?

Its a good point and I agree there probably would be 2 in their place. I also agree with previous comment regarding people being trained in Pakistan etc and then smuggling themselves in. I was wrong in my knee jerk response of lock them up but maybe we could make sure that they never come back by removing their British passport if they join ISIS which we were told in the beginning was being looked at by the home office.

Dont forget Sky were given all the documentation a couple of weeks ago showing ISIS recruits. It said last night on Sky there are many names on there from Belgium. The documents show what position someone has requested. Some have specifically asked to be a suicide bomber and several names are European nationals. So they have definitive proof there of people who have joined ISIS.

I dont know what the answers are it is a very difficult situation. I just wish atrocities like this would stop not just in Europe but world wide. Its a bloody dark horrible mess and I just want some light in the future.a reply to: cosmickat

It used to take me weeks, months or years to see that any particular event was false flag, but now it only takes hours or minutes.

Much insight in that regard is looking at the way any given event is presented by the mainstream media.

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Flatfish

I think you just hit the nail on the head with that.

Its all very well and good the police and intelligence services knowing about this people but what are they to do about them. They cannot be arrested before the commit a crime and its not always feasible for them to keep every one of them under constant surveillance.

Maybe the safest thing to do then would be for the government to have anybody they might think could be a terrorist rounded up and held without charge just in case?


Is it not better to be safe than sorry?

Sounds like a combination of "Pre-Crime" and GITMO.

Do you think there might be some "Blowback" associated with that kind of policy?

Would we also arrest and hold without charge, every "known" anti-govt. gun nut that may be inclined to stage armed protests on federal land?

Or, how about everyone on our national no-fly lists or terrorist watch list, do we arrest and hold them without charges too?

Or were you just talking about limiting your policy to "Known" Muslims?


[/quote

As I said in a later post I was being sarcastic.

Precrime is not a route I would wish to see us go down and neither is the rounding up of anyone the authorities think might be a threat.

a reply to: Flavian

If they have JIHAD beliefs which are advocating HOLY WAR then yes you can.

It doesnt even matter. Do what you want.

When its been 20 years of terror attacks your kids will kick you in the ass and into an old folks home and fix the mess you are making of Europe.

Thats not true. Sooner than later this will become nuclear or worse and you will be under martial law.

Enjoy that then since you need to enjoy this sense of moral superiority now.

This is why extreme leftist ideology is already in its death throws along with its polar opposite.

REALISM is the new ideology of the 21st century.

a reply to: TaleDawn

Brussels Terror attack Brothers Known To Police "AGAIN WITH KNOWN"

This is getting irritating and almost to a point should we even believe the official news media version on it?

Why don't you believe 'the official news media version'?

What about it makes you suspicious?

Not everything is a government / TPTB conspiracy and to allege such a thing whilst not being in possession of even the smallest percentage of the facts only serves to discredit the genuine conspiracies.

According to many people here on ATS every single terrorist outrage is a 'false flag' or some other sort of conspiracy.

What absolute bollocks - not only does it discredit the whole conspiracy 'movement' it offers apologist nonsense for the murdering scumbags who are responsible for murdering countless innocent men, women and children.

All News media is reporting now that these two Brussels Terror attack Brothers were Known To Police long before the attacks happened but they did nothing.

Obviously you didn't bother to read the reports in 'All News media'.

Yes, they were 'known' to the police.....for their links to organised crime.

My guess, and I openly admit it is nothing but a guess based on the information available and my personal experiences etc of Brussels and could easily prove to be wrong, is that they were probably previously known to have been involved in either drug dealing/smuggling, prostitution or even people smuggling.

As for the thing someone mentioned about pizza's - there are pizza / kebab shops all over Brussels, same as most European towns and cities, and most are owned by Asian people of various nationalities and most are Halal.

Again with the usual "Oh they were known to police" nonsense.

a reply to: tadaman

I am not and never have been a left winger. Nor have i mentionned leftist views. These are conclusions you have come to by yourself - and you are way off the mark. Maybe time to re appraise your judgement skills?

I will say it again for you, in the hope that it actually sinks in. Having Jihadi (or any extremist of any denomination) views is not a crime.

Acting on those views (ie killing or attempting to kill people) is a crime.

Do you see the difference yet?

If having extreme views is a crime, then why isn't Louis Farakhan locked up? Or, for that matter, Donald Trump?