Atheist, why are you so offended at anothers display of faith?

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

Does not the concept of faith though remove the need for critical thinking?

Not at all. As a matter of fact it liberates to make one more of a thinker.

If you have absolute trust in your faith do you not need to take away your own thought process and simply believe that it is the right thing to do?

Again No and Not at all. God never asked any of us to give up our own minds.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: nonspecific

You test faith as you would test a hypothesis. Ask God the questions, then look for the answers. If you really desire to know and you are ready, God will cause you to find it.

That is the kind of thing that makes me think some people are just looking for someone to wind up though.

You cannot ask god if you are expected to have faith in his omnipotence surely?

It has to be one way or the other.

Anything else is just making stuff up to suit your wants, needs and opinion.

Or are we moving into "What I think God meant to say was......" territory here?

Who's definition of faith are you using? The world's? Or the Bible's?
The Bible teaches us that God wants us to dress our souls in white robes of righteousness. We do this by Abiding in Christ. We Abide in Christ by learning the Mind (nous) of Christ, which is defined as the Word of God.

So Nous means the subconscious mind. The conscious mind (Kardia) draws raw information from the subconscious mind (Nous) in order to integrate those raw fragments into complex thoughts and principles.

This means that God wants our faith to be a "thinking faith" not a "blind faith". If we are told to learn the Subconscious Mind of Christ, then it is so that we can think in harmony with the Conscious Mind of Christ....so that our souls can be dressed in White Robes of Righteousness.

Blind Faith (asking no questions) is dead faith. Some scientists claim to have faith in science, but where would science be without questions.

Thinking Faith is living faith. God wants us to ask questions so we can know Him.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Most atheist don't care about open display of faith they do care about linking church and state, and lets be frank here in the U.S faith is meant Christian , as many here would be horrified if Muslims demanded that passages from the Koran were placed prominently on municipal buildings etc.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: nonspecific

You test faith as you would test a hypothesis. Ask God the questions, then look for the answers. If you really desire to know and you are ready, God will cause you to find it.

That is the kind of thing that makes me think some people are just looking for someone to wind up though.

You cannot ask god if you are expected to have faith in his omnipotence surely?

It has to be one way or the other.

Anything else is just making stuff up to suit your wants, needs and opinion.

Or are we moving into "What I think God meant to say was......" territory here?

Who's definition of faith are you using? The world's? Or the Bible's?
The Bible teaches us that God wants us to dress our souls in white robes of righteousness. We do this by Abiding in Christ. We Abide in Christ by learning the Mind (nous) of Christ, which is defined as the Word of God.

So Nous means the subconscious mind. The conscious mind (Kardia) draws raw information from the subconscious mind (Nous) in order to integrate those raw fragments into complex thoughts and principles.

This means that God wants our faith to be a "thinking faith" not a "blind faith". If we are told to learn the Subconscious Mind of Christ, then it is so that we can think in harmony with the Conscious Mind of Christ....so that our souls can be dressed in White Robes of Righteousness.

Blind Faith (asking no questions) is dead faith. Some scientists claim to have faith in science, but where would science be without questions.

Thinking Faith is living faith. God wants us to ask questions so we can know Him.

I am biting now and calling this absolute twaddle.

Show me how this is true and not just the addled spouting of your own mind.

All you have done here is used lots of words to say very little and I imagine you feel pretty good about yourself right now what with the spouting and all.

Twaddle plain and simple.

Now feel all indignant and righteous while you attempt to form a response that makes as little sense as your last post.

a reply to: nonspecific

You could show a little more interest and objectivity by not using the word "twaddle", but that's ok.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

We are commanded to wash our robes.

Rev 19:8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.

Robes represent Righteousness.

1 Cor 2: 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

Mind is our understanding, called nous (νοῦς).

Heart is our intentions, called kardia (καρδία).

We form our intentions (καρδία) from our understanding (νοῦς) as a function of our soul called psuchei (ψυχή). From this soul-function, our emotions develop a response (called kidneys or nephrous, νεφρός).

Rev 2:23 that I am He who searches the emotions and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

So washing your robes requires the knowledge of the MIND (νοῦς) OF CHRIST, to produce the thinking/intents of Christ (καρδία).


Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean its "twaddle". The fact that you would revert to such terminology shows that you think with your kidneys and not with your heart.

Because they are a bunch of whining, thin-skinned cry babies.

Seriously, any body who complains about some good intended person saying "Merry Christmas" to them, is just looking for something to bitch about.

They need to suck it up and stuff a sock in it. I''m sick of their constant whining.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: nonspecific

You could show a little more interest and objectivity by not using the word "twaddle", but that's ok.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

We are commanded to wash our robes.

Rev 19:8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.

Robes represent Righteousness.

1 Cor 2: 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

Mind is our understanding, called nous (νοῦς).

Heart is our intentions, called kardia (καρδία).

We form our intentions (καρδία) from our understanding (νοῦς) as a function of our soul called psuchei (ψυχή). From this soul-function, our emotions develop a response (called kidneys or nephrous, νεφρός).

Rev 2:23 that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

So was your robes requires the knowledge of the MIND (νοῦς) OF CHRIST, to produce the thinking/intents of Christ (καρδία).


Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean its "twaddle". The fact that you would revert to such terminology shows that you think with your kidneys and not with your heart.

And you have done exactly what I expected you to do.

Although it may seem that you are talking sense and have a greater understanding of the world than those of us without faith what you are in fact doing is just talking twaddle.

Using lots of words and writing in a somewhat profound way with a self applied superiority does not make you right.

Using your self instigated superiority in an attempt to justify your own internal belief system is simply that.

Your just talking nonsense but thinking that it makes sense.

Quoting long dead books and having a self created sense of righteousness sounds like a lot of fun but to others it is just absurd.

It is your go now,

Quote something irrelevant and assume you are better than me then....

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Because they are a bunch of whining, thin-skinned cry babies.

Seriously, any body who complains about some good intended person saying "Merry Christmas" to them, is just looking for something to bitch about.

They need to suck it up and stuff a sock in it. I''m sick of their constant whining.

You know, no one has ever complained about that.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Because they are a bunch of whining, thin-skinned cry babies.

Seriously, any body who complains about some good intended person saying "Merry Christmas" to them, is just looking for something to bitch about.

They need to suck it up and stuff a sock in it. I''m sick of their constant whining.

You know, no one has ever complained about that.

I am sure they have but less to do with atheism and more to do with being a pedantic miserable twat.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Because they are a bunch of whining, thin-skinned cry babies.

Seriously, any body who complains about some good intended person saying "Merry Christmas" to them, is just looking for something to bitch about.

They need to suck it up and stuff a sock in it. I''m sick of their constant whining.

You know, no one has ever complained about that.

I am sure they have but less to do with atheism and more to do with being a pedantic miserable twat.

Sure. I loathe all religions but i would also hate anyone who stopped people saying Merry Christmas

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Atheist, why are you so offended at anothers display of faith?

I never understood that either. I am sort of agnostic, I really believe there is a creator, but I simply do not believe in the biblical God at all. However if you do, as long as you're not the type to keep telling me how I'm going to burn in hell, what you believe really doesn't affect me.

The way I look at it, my wife has a brother who is a recovering alcoholic and I have a cousin who's an addict. They're religious now and it's keeping them sober, so some good can come out of it.

originally posted by: Klassified

Actually no. Atheism requires NO faith at all. By its very definition, it is a lack of faith.

Actually living from one day to the next requires FAITH. It doesn't require faith in a diety. Many people have ultimate faith in money, or science, themselves. Addicts have faith only in their 'drug' - it's their diety.

Faith is what keeps you getting up in the morning.

What is your deity? What do you worship as the bringer of all you desire?

Athesism is not a lack of FAITH - it's not having faith in some super-natural being.

a reply to: nonspecific

This....

And you have done exactly what I expected you to do.

Although it may seem that you are talking sense and have a greater understanding of the world than those of us without faith what you are in fact doing is just talking twaddle.

Using lots of words and writing in a somewhat profound way with a self applied superiority does not make you right.

Using your self instigated superiority in an attempt to justify your own internal belief system is simply that.

Your just talking nonsense but thinking that it makes sense.

Quoting long dead books and having a self created sense of righteousness sounds like a lot of fun but to others it is just absurd.

It is your go now,

Quote something irrelevant and assume you are better than me then....

...is why Christians get frustrated with atheists. No objectivity, no respect, just "I'm the victim of your superiority complex", mentality.

I was really hoping we could at least explore the subject a little more, but I can see what you think of me.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

How about this one oh holy one:

5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men.

Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.

6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

I think that comes just before the Lord's Prayer.

biblehub.com...

There are other similar bible references listed... about faith being a private matter between you and what you have faith in.

You can justify anything with the Bible. It's just metaphorical as are all scared writings - deep understanding by the wise written in imperfect language...

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

How about this one oh holy one:

5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men.

Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.

6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

I think that comes just before the Lord's Prayer.

biblehub.com...

There are other similar bible references listed... about faith being a private matter between you and what you have faith in.

You can justify anything with the Bible. It's just metaphorical as are all scared writings - deep understanding by the wise written in imperfect language...

Well I figured since I was in the middle of a conversation, it called for a little bit of sharing my faith, but I don't remember typing a prayer.

But thanks for the sarcastic criticism. I'll shut up now since that's what you want. Clearly between the two of us, you are the Holier one.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: nonspecific

This....

And you have done exactly what I expected you to do.

Although it may seem that you are talking sense and have a greater understanding of the world than those of us without faith what you are in fact doing is just talking twaddle.

Using lots of words and writing in a somewhat profound way with a self applied superiority does not make you right.

Using your self instigated superiority in an attempt to justify your own internal belief system is simply that.

Your just talking nonsense but thinking that it makes sense.

Quoting long dead books and having a self created sense of righteousness sounds like a lot of fun but to others it is just absurd.

It is your go now,

Quote something irrelevant and assume you are better than me then....

...is why Christians get frustrated with atheists. No objectivity, no respect, just "I'm the victim of your superiority complex."

I was really hoping we could at least explore the subject a little more, but I can see what you think of me.

This Is why I think I am the victim of some kind of prank in these kinds of discussions.

Judge this judge that...

Moral high ground, you will never understand why I will not understand you ect.....

Look at this from my point of view if you can lower yourself to such an ungodly and limited level. Talking to someone who honestly believes in the bible and the Christian faith is to me like trying to talk to someone who is really really high.

Yes I understand that you think and believe what you do but to a rational outsider it is just crazy?

The very fact that someone can base their life on a book written 500 years ago about someone who supposedly existed 2000 years ago in a civilisation that no longer exists is quite literally bizarre? Can you understand that from someone that does not have "blind faith?"

I also would have liked to discuss this but your over inflated sense of moral superiority based on the above premise makes this impossible.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

This.......

[snip]

...is why Christians get frustrated with atheists. No objectivity, no respect, just "I'm the victim of your superiority complex", mentality.

Now you're getting it! Can we explore the whole Christian exploitation over the past 1700 years thing?

No good comes from a bad tree. I think your Jesus said something like that?

Atheists are an odd bunch . I have some friends that are. They don't believe in God and will debate you all day why there isn't a God. They can be very cultish at times. Their belief is there isn't a GOD and they take any showing of belief in God as if you are forcing your religion on them . I don't know why they are like this and also believe it is silly . I think atheists need to just realize when people express their religion it is not at the atheists but for themselves .


a reply to: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: nonspecific

This....

And you have done exactly what I expected you to do.

Although it may seem that you are talking sense and have a greater understanding of the world than those of us without faith what you are in fact doing is just talking twaddle.

Using lots of words and writing in a somewhat profound way with a self applied superiority does not make you right.

Using your self instigated superiority in an attempt to justify your own internal belief system is simply that.

Your just talking nonsense but thinking that it makes sense.

Quoting long dead books and having a self created sense of righteousness sounds like a lot of fun but to others it is just absurd.

It is your go now,

Quote something irrelevant and assume you are better than me then....

...is why Christians get frustrated with atheists. No objectivity, no respect, just "I'm the victim of your superiority complex."

I was really hoping we could at least explore the subject a little more, but I can see what you think of me.

This Is why I think I am the victim of some kind of prank in these kinds of discussions.

Judge this judge that...

Moral high ground, you will never understand why I will not understand you ect.....

Look at this from my point of view if you can lower yourself to such an ungodly and limited level. Talking to someone who honestly believes in the bible and the Christian faith is to me like trying to talk to someone who is really really high.

Yes I understand that you think and believe what you do but to a rational outsider it is just crazy?

The very fact that someone can base their life on a book written 500 years ago about someone who supposedly existed 2000 years ago in a civilisation that no longer exists is quite literally bizarre? Can you understand that from someone that does not have "blind faith?"

I also would have liked to discuss this but your over inflated sense of moral superiority based on the above premise makes this impossible.

You know what? I was just sharing my perspective. You asked, and I shared. I really never meant to come off as arrogant. If I did, I'm sorry.

But you really aren't making atheists look friendly right now either. I said nothing about either one of us being the "rational one". I'm not the one saying that I had to, "lower yourself to such an ungodly and limited level. Talking to someone who honestly believes in the bible and the Christian faith is to me like trying to talk to someone who is really really high."

I really get the impression that you hate me, because your attitude reeks of it.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

How about this one oh holy one:

5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men.

Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.

6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

I think that comes just before the Lord's Prayer.

biblehub.com...

There are other similar bible references listed... about faith being a private matter between you and what you have faith in.

You can justify anything with the Bible. It's just metaphorical as are all scared writings - deep understanding by the wise written in imperfect language...

Well I figured since I was in the middle of a conversation, it called for a little bit of sharing my faith, but I don't remember typing a prayer.

But thanks for the sarcastic criticism. I'll shut up now since that's what you want. Clearly between the two of us, you are the Holier one.

There was nothing scracastic about by response.

I was trying to discuss in terms from, I assume, your holy book. Where it's stated by Jesus himself that faith on parade for others isn't faith at all.

My biggest objection to the religious, is all the preaching and posing for each other but little actual practise of the principles outlined by your teacher. If you respect your teacher at all, I would think you'd want to follow his example not just take about it.

You can shout your Faith from the mountain tops for all your worth but until you walk your talk on a daily basis through all manner of temptation, I choose not to listen to you. I pay attention to people who actually practise Faith, Hope, Charity, Humility, Equinamity, Kindness, Honesty and Integrity (the match between though, word and deed).