Oldest ever human genome sequence may rewrite human history

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: spirit_horse

Is it this one you refer to?

I think it's 12,000 years old?

Yes! Thanks, Definitely not Pleistocene eh? I am surprised that Giant Sloths were down there. I thought they went extinct longer back than that. Guess not.

a reply to: spirit_horse

Still bloody awesome!

a reply to: spirit_horse

Well, technically, 12 KA is still the Pleistocene, just the very tail end of it. While most of the Giant Sloths died out on the mainland in both North and South America, there were some in the Caribbean that held out until 4 or 5 KA and the most recent remains have been found on Cuba and are less than 3000 years old. There is the possibility that some held on in Netherlands Antilles until around 1500 years ago. The Caribbean Sloths were a little luckier as it took longer for humans to colonize the islands.

a reply to: punkinworks10

Must be so sad that someone thinks your opinion is invalid

What if the larger animals wernt around?
Guess those larger brained, physically fitter Neanderthals were to dumb to hunt rabbits and just starved to death.

"Du, no its a rabbit, we don't eat rabbits, lets all starve to death."

Funny how common sense isn't common


and I love the MAY in this part of the quote

"Neanderthal's short squat body, massive limbs and lack of backward displacement at the shoulder joint may have hampered their ability to incorporate projectile weaponry."

May have evolved from dirt and water as well

a reply to: Raggedyman

Must be so sad that someone thinks your opinion is invalid

Actually, no, I could care less what anybody else thinks of my opinion, its my opinion, and theirs is theirs and they have a right to theirs. I'll still point out if they are wrong, and that is still my opinin.

What if the larger animals wernt around?

That statement is pointless, because they were around and over the course of several hundred thousand years, neanderthal evolved a very specific set physical attributes to hunt large animals, in a very specific environment.

Guess those larger brained, physically fitter Neanderthals were to dumb to hunt rabbits and just starved to death.

Another pointless idiotic statement
The larger brain was larger simply to accomodate the larger visual processing center that they evolved to hunt in the low light conditions of the mountain forests of europe.
They were not "physically fitter", again they were adapted to a SPECIFIC ENVIRONMENT AND LIFESTYLE.
Although they could likely out hike a modern human in the mountains and survive a colder overall climate, thats why the body is short a squat, to conserve heat, a modern human could easily run them to death, or survive in hot arid environments where they couldnt handle the heat.

"Du, no its a rabbit, we don't eat rabbits, lets all starve to death."

You mean' like the millions of Irish that starved to death during the potato famine, because they wouldn't shellfish when shell fish were abundant.

Or like the indigenous tasmanians who would eat shellfish, but not fish and did starve when the shellfish harvest failed.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: Raggedyman

Another pointless idiotic statement
The larger brain was larger simply to accomodate the larger visual processing center that they evolved to hunt in the low light conditions of the mountain forests of europe.
They were not "physically fitter", again they were adapted to a SPECIFIC ENVIRONMENT AND LIFESTYLE.
Although they could likely out hike a modern human in the mountains and survive a colder overall climate, thats why the body is short a squat, to conserve heat, a modern human could easily run them to death, or survive in hot arid environments where they couldnt handle the heat.

Just another point related to cranial capacity, since raggedyman keeps harping on it as if it made Neanderthal more intelligent than HSS, is that cranial capacity in mammals is directly correlated with body mass. HN may have been shorter and more squat than we are but the muscle mass alone dwarfs what you would see on the majority of professional athletes.

anyone filling in with some scientific things?

Would be awesome..

originally posted by: Tsuro
anyone filling in with some scientific things?

Would be awesome..

How about this paper explaining some reasons for neandrthals unique physiology.
[exThe general context of Neanderthal existence in Europe and Southwest Asia is assessed from a physiological perspective, based on studies of living populations experiencing certain roughly analogous circumstances. Various aspects of the fossil, archaeological, and paleoenvironmental records relevant to the discussion of energy balance among the Neanderthals were investigated. Within living populations exposed to cold climate, subsisting on energy deficient diets, or participating in strenuous exercise regimes, various metabolic and physiological responses are evident. These relate to an attempt to maintain energy balance under such stresses, and are mediated by the action of thyroid hormones. It is proposed that the Neanderthals, who endured similar conditions, must have adapted to a low level of circulating active thyroid hormones in the face of an energy imbalance (negative) and sacrificed linear growth (of the legs/limbs primarily) as an energy sparing mechanism, so that other more essential body functions could be maintained to enable survival. Given that the Neanderthal physique was skeletally robust and highly muscled (and that a significant degree and frequency of trauma is evident) it logical that they were engaging in very specific and stressful activity patterns. The Neanderthal physique would have prohibited certain activities but facilitated others. It is clear that modem athletes who share these attributes take part in power and speed events, involving intermittent bursts of high intensity exercise, rather than more stamina orientated ones. This information is used, in conjunction with archaeological and paleoenvironmental evidence, to develop a theory of the daily subsistence practices of the Neanderthals, involving the ambushing of game in a closed environment. Such start-stop activities in a cold environment would have had a bearing on metabolism and energy balance, but also exerted pressure on thermoregulatory mechanisms. In light of this a new theory is developed to explain the evolution of the Neanderthals' exceptional cranial capacity and morphology. The elongated and unflexed basicranium is proposed to have arisen in order to accommodate an expanded cavernous sinus at the base of the brain. This would have provided a mechanism for regulating brain temperature under oscillating periods of heavy physical exertion and rest in a cold environment. The points outlined here are made with reference to previously suggested notions of ecogeographic patterning of body morphology and differential mobility at the time of the 'transition'. Finally, the aspects of Neanderthal existence discussed are placed in a broad ecological and evolutionary context alongside the contemporaneous Early Anatomically

etheses.dur.ac.uk...

I had forgetten about the fact that in HSN the supra orbital torus, brow ridge, is hollow and an extension of the sinus cavities, it helps warm the air breathed in.

a reply to: punkinworks10

I heard that their nose was formed in a different way so the cold air didn't hit the lungs,

a reply to: Tsuro

You heard correctly. About 20 years ago, Ian Tattersall found that Neanderthal have 2 triangular boney protrusions on each side of the nose pointing inwards. It hasn't been noticed previously because the structures are small and fragile and didn't preserve well in most crania. It is believed that Neanderthal breathed more through their nose than the mouth. These structures were one indication and the position of the larynx was another. These protrusions warmed the air in concert with their sinus cavities before it hit the mucous membranes of the throat and made certain that cold air didn't find its way into the lungs.

This nasal feature isn't just unique in hominids. Neanderthal are the only primate to exhibit this feature. This, at the time, lent more credence to HN being a distinct species from HSS. Genetics and admixture events have made some question this proposition but many hold onto the notion of them being Homo Neanderthalensis as opposed to Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis.

Personally, I'm in the camp that believes they are a distinct species having evolved independently for nearly a half million years in isolation from Homo Sapiens and particularly well adapted to the specific ecological niches of Eurasia during some of the coldest periods in Earths history whereas HS was adapted quite suitably to their East African ecological niche with more open land necessitating the taller thinner stature which was more easily able to chase prey over long distances as opposed to the cold steppes and forests of Europe and Western Asia and nearly as far north as the Arctic Circle and Siberia.

They were able to do so because of their physical adaptations to the climate as well as the ice sheets and glaciers were relegated to Northern And Western Europe and N. America while Siberia and Beringia were more temperate than they are currently.

a reply to: peter vlar

Im gonna lend a theory, i think the HNS had a problem reproduction, and that they were seasonal, mated in august - sep gave birth in the spring.. While HSS can reproduce like rabbits..

I do believe the cold isolation and the abundance of food triggered evolutionary, i do believe HNS is the forefather to our technological base, cause after the last ice age, we had a technological advancement 12kya with our neolithic societies and the ability to all of a sudden read the seasoning of the stars near Siberia and the close perimeters.. Which should pinpoint to a northern axial and the polaris.. The usage of the Swastika is something you only see in the north but all of a sudden its portrayed way off course..

a reply to: peter vlar

Cause the "southern cross" didnt come until well egypt, and it was something that came from a vedic society of the east..

a reply to: peter vlar

www.sciencemag.org...

no idea