A simple message to people around the world watching America - from Plato

The lead up to the 2016 US Presidential election has clearly shown me that both the establishment Democrats and Republicans work closer with each other to oust what they consider an even greater enemy than they do in working with each other for a common good cause for citizens.

Trump (R) and Sanders (D) are most definitely the targets of not only their respective parties but also of their rival parties too (which is to be expected), but what is the real standout is the rhetoric lately from both camps against Trump (whom I consider a goose but I would vote for him if Bernie wasn't a choice).

Read that quote again from Plato folks, because in the end, it should be evident to most Americans that there is no real "Democrat" or "Republican" parties anymore, and haven't been for quite some time now. I find it nigh-impossible to support either camps, although I do support certain policies from each.

When a government stifles free speech, when it spies on it's citizens, when it takes away liberties and freedoms, when it is accused of voter fraud, when it invades sovereign countries based upon lies, when it calls for banksters to be bailed out to the tune of billions whilst average Joe looses his home, when mothers grieve the return of their sons or daughters body being bought back from a war zone - a war fought for consolidation of power for corporate oligarchies.....the citizens of that country are not free but slaves surrounded by propaganda convincing them they are free and giving them the illusion of choice.

Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty. Plato

So, as America charges towards nominating the best of a bad bunch, I'll leave you with this one last quote from my mate Plato, a quote that the main stream media would rather the masses ignore............

“In politics we presume that everyone who knows how to get votes knows how to administer a city or a state. When we are ill... we do not ask for the handsomest physician, or the most eloquent one.”
― Plato

/rant.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I agree with a lot of what you've said.. We are all eagerly awaiting our next election surprise, as we rubber neck the demise of our beautiful and great society, we can blame "them" whoever they are, truthfully the battle starts within and always has and always will.

"Together we stand, divided we fall"

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Wonderful OP, I completely agree with you. It is my experience that whenever I try to speak with family or friends about politics, they tend to be entirely stuck in their views and will blindly follow regardless of the reality. Whatever side they are on is completely good and the other is utterly evil. Their choice can do no wrong and they will defend them no matter what, while the "opposition" is always bad. It sickens me.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Your Twain quotes reminded me of how much in respect that man. More than anyone else of his time or since he had an ability to cut through the crap and get to the gist of the matter.

I have to vote on Tuesday and I still have no idea what to do. My daughter is voting for the first time as a newly minted adult and she has more clarity than I.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I only have one quote and a short message to add to this op.

The media is wholly controlled by 6 corporations.

Those same corporations exist only to further their owners designs.

Mark Twain- The greatest form of censorship is the omission.

It isn't what these 6 corporations are telling us that is the problem, it is what they aren't!

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I would love to see ATS change the T&Cs to not allow any "divide and conquer" threads and posts.

There used to be three or four members in 2009 the would say your OP premise...they would get a lot of stars but the people would quickly forget the truth.

Simplify Mark Twain.

"Those who think they are free are not actually free."

Look at Real estate. Biggest example in human history.

Great post, thanks OP

originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: Sublimecraft

I would love to see ATS change the T&Cs to not allow any "divide and conquer" threads and posts.

There used to be three or four members in 2009 the would say your OP premise...they would get a lot of stars but the people would quickly forget the truth.

I agree shouldn't it go along with not being allowed to politically bait topics:

From this moment forward, the following rules apply throughout all of ATS:

(1) Politically inspired name calling of an ideological group is not allowed: examples: "Loonie Libs," "Obamaites," "Repuglicans," etc.

(2) Alterations of a politicians name, or any other high-profile political figure, for disparaging political effect is not allowed, including within member avatars and signatures.

(2a) Avatars designed exclusively to denigrate a politician or political figure, using derogatory wording or photo-manipulation, is not allowed.

(3) Posts that continually parrot previously proven false political rhetoric without substantive contribution to the topic are not allowed.

(4) Posts that stray from the discussion of the issue/topic and focus on the political affiliation of members are not allowed.

(5) All other politically-charged trolling and sniping intended, in the opinion of our staff and topic participants, to derail discussion away form the issues are not allowed. In the event we encounter the above infractions, you risk the removal of your entire post or thread without warning or recourse.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I've seen baiting used and admitted. Some of it is possible damage control and just trolling that is fueling divide and conquer. In these dangerous times we don't need that nor should it be advocated.

If voting really did anything, they wouldnt let us do it.
Sam Clemens

Thanks for the reminder from Plato. So much wisdom for so long and nobody listens

Then there is the simple wisdom of Will Rogers

If you ever injected truth into politics you'd have no politics.

Politics is the ruination of the country. Elect me for life, then they won't have to cater to any interest. If you elect one party to power, why the other party don't do any useful work for the next 4 years, only try to work some scheme to get back in. But if they were elected for life they wouldn't have to worry. The minute a man knows he can't get a political job, he may turn to something useful. A business that's doing well don't change people every 4 years. A man don't no more than get into the White House and learn where the Ice Box is than he has to get out again, then he is never any good for hard work again.

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Great post, thanks OP

originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: Sublimecraft

I would love to see ATS change the T&Cs to not allow any "divide and conquer" threads and posts.

There used to be three or four members in 2009 the would say your OP premise...they would get a lot of stars but the people would quickly forget the truth.

I agree shouldn't it go along with not being allowed to politically bait topics:

From this moment forward, the following rules apply throughout all of ATS:

(1) Politically inspired name calling of an ideological group is not allowed: examples: "Loonie Libs," "Obamaites," "Repuglicans," etc.

(2) Alterations of a politicians name, or any other high-profile political figure, for disparaging political effect is not allowed, including within member avatars and signatures.

(2a) Avatars designed exclusively to denigrate a politician or political figure, using derogatory wording or photo-manipulation, is not allowed.

(3) Posts that continually parrot previously proven false political rhetoric without substantive contribution to the topic are not allowed.

(4) Posts that stray from the discussion of the issue/topic and focus on the political affiliation of members are not allowed.

(5) All other politically-charged trolling and sniping intended, in the opinion of our staff and topic participants, to derail discussion away form the issues are not allowed. In the event we encounter the above infractions, you risk the removal of your entire post or thread without warning or recourse.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


In bold: I've seen this used and admitted. Possible damage control and just trolling that is fueling divide and conquer. In these dangerous times we don't need that nor should it be advocated.

Want to know who controls you?

Just figure out who you can't make fun of.

This is a horrible idea, as this country is founded on free speech, and I will fight tooth and nail anyone who tries to tell me I, or anyone else can't speak their mind.

Good intentions but bad ideas?

I hope so!

a reply to: Granite

The only dividing I'm doing is separating myself from the 2-party system paradigm where lobbyists and billionaire special-interest individuals, some of whom have been in control of the (global) financial system for over 100 years, do their bidding. They do not have the interests of the citizens (of the world) in mind when they back certain players - from both teams. CFR and Bilderberg and Trilateral meetings are real and they are making global policy, behind closed doors.

The only conquering I'm doing is voicing my opinion in the hope it will urge others to do some research and come to their own conclusions instead of being told what to think (and eat, and buy).

I enjoy the Presidential race, I've called it for Bernie and would like to see the Trump/Sanders master-debate and would like to see Hillary behind bars, but hey - that's just me. When watching it through my eyes it only reinforces my views on whats going on in the world today.

originally posted by: Sargeras

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Great post, thanks OP

originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: Sublimecraft

I would love to see ATS change the T&Cs to not allow any "divide and conquer" threads and posts.

There used to be three or four members in 2009 the would say your OP premise...they would get a lot of stars but the people would quickly forget the truth.

I agree shouldn't it go along with not being allowed to politically bait topics:

From this moment forward, the following rules apply throughout all of ATS:

(1) Politically inspired name calling of an ideological group is not allowed: examples: "Loonie Libs," "Obamaites," "Repuglicans," etc.

(2) Alterations of a politicians name, or any other high-profile political figure, for disparaging political effect is not allowed, including within member avatars and signatures.

(2a) Avatars designed exclusively to denigrate a politician or political figure, using derogatory wording or photo-manipulation, is not allowed.

(3) Posts that continually parrot previously proven false political rhetoric without substantive contribution to the topic are not allowed.

(4) Posts that stray from the discussion of the issue/topic and focus on the political affiliation of members are not allowed.

(5) All other politically-charged trolling and sniping intended, in the opinion of our staff and topic participants, to derail discussion away form the issues are not allowed. In the event we encounter the above infractions, you risk the removal of your entire post or thread without warning or recourse.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


In bold: I've seen this used and admitted. Possible damage control and just trolling that is fueling divide and conquer. In these dangerous times we don't need that nor should it be advocated.

Want to know who controls you?

Just figure out who you can't make fun of.

This is a horrible idea, as this country is founded on free speech, and I will fight tooth and nail anyone who tries to tell me I, or anyone else can't speak their mind.

Good intentions but bad ideas?

I hope so!

Not sure I'm following. You disagree with site policy or and disagree with not allowing divide and conquer that disrupts topics?

Though, you do bring up a point on the highlighted bullet. I've seen some topics that were still rather questionable but were deemed false and sent off to one bin or another under that.

However, all in all I don't support the topic of inciting violence, as mentioned don't really need more of as being fueled politically and media wise already as it will cause even more issues.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

So what i get from this is the nature of politics and man have changed very little over time, if this was rampant in Plato's time history really does repeat, or should i say is engineered ...

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Truer words never spoken

It begs the question.

When will we have a sanctuary from this never ending mess. Is there one?

Can we truly build one and keep it from the world, the human condition, and the masses who acting as masses and not free thinking individuals, keep dragging us down into the mire of their collective existence?

I would build one just for the honor of defending it.

I would store away my treasures there so as to watch for thieves and robbers until my last breath

Happy and still in being ever watchful and restless.

All I love, believe and have faith in I would keep in such a storehouse.

In each mans heart is such a place hidden away.

We always try to echo in reality what is in our hearts, only for it to be shattered by the emptiness of the dead hearts of others.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

It seems smart to watch the candidates with the most opposition as we unfortunately we live in a time where if someone in a higher place has a target on their back, it most likely means they are being targeted for being better or more ethical than the ones doing the attacking. It's been this way for quite some time. Look at presidents who try to go up against dynastic blood lines, the bankers and federal reserve.... It does not turn out well for them.

Another member talked about a Sanders trump ticket, and while it's an oxymoron, it would sure be fascinating to see a billionaire, and two "screw the establishment" men work on problems that could likely get them in the view of a scope real fast.

I honestly think the two could really bring the rich and corrupt down a notch - trump could outline how business should be done for a prosperous America, while Sanders would ensure the less fortunate have some quality of life.

What is this quote from? It's not the allegory of the cave right?

a reply to: Sublimecraft

We are living in the time, when the most rotten of "conspiracies" are becoming law.

Our entire political spectrum is littered with fascist puppets beholden to their lobbyist controllers.

It is quite simple in my view, that we have Hillary who is an amazingly succinct summary of this corrupt system, also the only real threat to the American people in this "election."

We have Sanders, who anyone can go a head and research his stance. A stance that has been ignored on the Senate floor for decades. In all of my research of corruption within the halls of DC, Sanders has always impressed me and given me slight hope as to the hopeful ability of the system to work. Him along with Ron Paul, and as an avowed Paul supporter it was heartbreaking to see the system prevail, not this year!!

Then there is Hillary's distant cousin Trump. The biggest joke of the year and truly and erroneous representation of the frustration of the American public. The guy is an idiot of the highest degree. Utilizing psychological manipulation of the propgandist industry to the max. Working for old Hillary the entire time, Christ they are both members of the CFR, to think that they are opposing sides in this "election" is only due to ignorance.

We will either have Hillary or Bernie.

The future of America and the world depends upon us to make sure this corporate shill and her tactics fail!

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: Sublimecraft

We are living in the tim, when the most rotten of "conspiracies" are becoming law.

Our entire political spectrum is littered with fascist puppets beholden to their lobbyist controllers.

It is quite simple in my view, we have Hillary who is an amazingly succinct summary of this corrupt system, also the only real threat to the American people in this "election."

We have Sanders, who anyone can go a head and research his stance. A stance that has been ignored on the Senate floor for decades. In all of my research of corruption within the halls of DC, Sanders has always impressed me and given me slight hope as to the hopeful ability of the system to work. Him along with Ron Paul, and as an avowed Paul supporter it was heartbreaking to see the system prevail, not this year!!

Then there is Hillary's distant cousin Trump. The biggest joke of the year and truly and erroneous representation of the frustration of the American public. The guy is an idiot of the highest degree. Utilizing psychological manipulation of the propgandist industry to the max. Working for old Hillary the entire time, Christ they are both members of the CFR, to think that they are opposing sides in this "election" is only due to ignorance.

We will either have Hillary or Bernie.

The future of America and the world depends upon us to make sure this corporate shill and her tactics fail!

I don't think the majority of voters would agree with you. At all.

Trump is anything but an idiot. That's an ignorant assumption.

But with the media manipulation and the nonsense on all of social media, that is what some people choose to assume...

originally posted by: lovebeck

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: Sublimecraft

We are living in the time, when the most rotten of "conspiracies" are becoming law.

Our entire political spectrum is littered with fascist puppets beholden to their lobbyist controllers.

It is quite simple in my view, we have Hillary who is an amazingly succinct summary of this corrupt system, also the only real threat to the American people in this "election."

We have Sanders, who anyone can go a head and research his stance. A stance that has been ignored on the Senate floor for decades. In all of my research of corruption within the halls of DC, Sanders has always impressed me and given me slight hope as to the hopeful ability of the system to work. Him along with Ron Paul, and as an avowed Paul supporter it was heartbreaking to see the system prevail, not this year!!

Then there is Hillary's distant cousin Trump. The biggest joke of the year and truly and erroneous representation of the frustration of the American public. The guy is an idiot of the highest degree. Utilizing psychological manipulation of the propgandist industry to the max. Working for old Hillary the entire time, Christ they are both members of the CFR, to think that they are opposing sides in this "election" is only due to ignorance.

We will either have Hillary or Bernie.

The future of America and the world depends upon us to make sure this corporate shill and her tactics fail!

I don't think the majority of voters would agree with you. At all.

Trump is anything but an idiot. That's an ignorant assumption.

But with the media manipulation and the nonsense on all of social media, that is what some people choose to assume...

What is your view of the "majority" of voters.

I ask because I think that it may fundamentally be at odds with my view.

We have have 2 decades worth of MSM support of Clinton/Bush. Presidencies that have absolutely no difference between them except for hot button topics the Media, successfully, divided the masses upon. All the while distracting the congressional/senatorial complicity within their corruption. It is time to wake up and not fall for the lies. Trump is an accurate representation of all that is wrong with this country.

It took me months to research Trump and hear the message he promotes. Honestly his idiocy does nothing but crack me up. The social engineers are intelligent of this much we are sure, but to believe that he is actually trying to become president is absurd. He clearly works for the Clinton family, hopefully more intelligent "conspiracy" theorists will see this and call it like it is.