Would you voluntarily give the government the taxes you owe?

For the most part, taxes are payroll deducted automatically from your paychecks. There is only one reason that this is done. It's that when we're given actual money to hold, or can see it in our checking accounts, it causes physical pain and frustration to let go of. Imagine it for a second. Imagine that your gross pay was entered into your bank account every pay period. You then have to write a check, make a cash withdrawal, or watch it automatically deducted from your checking account.

There is no way that you would continue to accept the sheer amount that the government takes from us in taxes. This is why taxes are automatically deducted from our pay. It removes the "physical pain" from paying taxes in "cash".

When we buy something with cold hard cash, we know right away how much that thing has cost us. If I go to a Mexican restaurant and use cash to pay, the act of paying and the act of consuming my meal are very directly coupled. I know just how much I have given up to pay for my burrito when I pay with cash, and this can be painful.

The Way We Spend Impacts How We Spend

Would things change if we had to hand over physical currency to pay tax obligations? Is this why there is a war on physical currency? There is plenty of research available that says paying in cash is physically painful.

Considering this, is it really hard to believe that people have a hard time paying taxes?

a reply to: EternalSolace

Would you voluntarily give organized crime or the mob the money they say you owe for their protection racket? Is that a better question or maybe a more realistic comparison?

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: EternalSolace

What about purchase taxes at the store?

We watch it charged us up front just like payroll tax.

You can't tell the Store I don't want to pay the tax. Then you can't get the goods.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: EternalSolace

Would you voluntarily give organized crime or the mob the money they say you owe for their protection racket? Is that a better question or maybe a more realistic comparison?

Cheers - Dave

So if the mob could automatically deduct from your paycheck protection fees, people could swallow it easier? I understand the comparison you've made, but my point is that if the working class had to physically hand over currency to pay their obligations, it would quickly change the way our government operates.

a reply to: EternalSolace

They mob does take fund from payroll up front it is called UNION DUES whether you are a member or not.

If I could see the government was using the money responsibly for its enumerated powers, yes I would pay it voluntarily.

That's why it's taken from us via stealth.

If I new the money wasn't being wasted or just plain "lost" I would be much more likely to want to pay. When I know the money is just going to get flushed its hard to want to write that check.

I wonder if TPTB will ever figure out that if they fix the system 'they' broke that people would be more likely to accept tax increases knowing the money would actually serve a purpose that benefits the American people. Unfortunately, it seems like that will never happen. Our politicians are making run after run to the well for more wealth and carrying it back to Washington in a bucket full of holes. Instead of plugging up the holes, they just get more leaky buckets and make more runs.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
For the most part, taxes are payroll deducted automatically from your paychecks. There is only one reason that this is done. It's that when we're given actual money to hold, or can see it in our checking accounts, it causes physical pain and frustration to let go of. Imagine it for a second. Imagine that your gross pay was entered into your bank account every pay period. You then have to write a check, make a cash withdrawal, or watch it automatically deducted from your checking account.

There is no way that you would continue to accept the sheer amount that the government takes from us in taxes. This is why taxes are automatically deducted from our pay. It removes the "physical pain" from paying taxes in "cash".

When we buy something with cold hard cash, we know right away how much that thing has cost us. If I go to a Mexican restaurant and use cash to pay, the act of paying and the act of consuming my meal are very directly coupled. I know just how much I have given up to pay for my burrito when I pay with cash, and this can be painful.

The Way We Spend Impacts How We Spend

Would things change if we had to hand over physical currency to pay tax obligations? Is this why there is a war on physical currency? There is plenty of research available that says paying in cash is physically painful.

Considering this, is it really hard to believe that people have a hard time paying taxes?

I've often said that if you want to see a real revolution, we should end the automatic payroll deduction so everyone has to pay their income taxes in a lump sum on April 15th. In addition, elections should be held on April 16th.

Many of us do pay our taxes in a lump sum as you describe and I can guarantee, most that have experienced doing so are probably fiscally conservative because we see and feel how much we pay more acutely.

What is even sadder though is that you get people getting tax refunds not realizing all they did was give Uncle Sam an interest free loan for they year. No one should be getting tax refunds. If anything, you want a zero tax liability at tax time with zero refund or maybe a tax liability. Getting a tax refund means you withheld too much money out of your paycheck throughout the year.

a reply to: Edumakated

everyone has to pay their income taxes in a lump sum on April 15th. In addition, elections should be held on April 16th.

Proof that the Republicans have never been for smaller government.

a reply to: EternalSolace

This is a great OP.

I hate paying taxes to the Feds because they do literally NOTHING to help the world or its citizens and instead use the money to kill and enforce an unnecessarily authoritarian agenda. I wouldn't give them anything if it were voluntary.

Well maybe some of us don't feeling obligated to give money to our government, who in turn takes it and gives it to other people who don't deserve it.
Maybe some of us are tired of seeing the complete mismanagement of our money with nothing to show for it.
If you had 20 bucks in your pocket and gave it to your neighbor to cut your grass and he took the money and gave it to someone across town and cut HIS grass , you would be pretty upset when you got home to see that your grass hadn't been cut. ....

I don't think people have a problem with paying taxes ,
I think they have a problem with seeing all that tax dollars get wasted .

a reply to: EternalSolace

Taxes are a scheme to line the pocket of the insanely rich.

Who decides the perameters of each persons "fair share"? Nothing in life is fair.

Just a few years ago we finally paid off the War of 1812!

If I get a state return because too much was taken out of my pay, I have to pay Federal taxes on the refund money for overpaying! How is that fair?

No, I've paid my fair share of extortion fees so Mrs. OBAMA gets to stay in Hawaii for an extra week along with secret service, assistant, groomer or whatever it goes by now.

Yes.

I don't want to have to pay for getting sewage pipes to my house, for treating water from my kitchen and bathrooms, I want clean water (not what's in the river) and I don't want to have to process it myself (and don't say "rainfall" because here in Texas there ain't enough.)

I want roads that I don't have to make and roads that aren't controlled by anyone who thinks they can set up a toll road (as was true in the early colonies.) I want food that comes to my store to be inspected to make sure that the beef really IS beef and was not slaughtered in an environment so dirty that I'll be sick. I want street lights and electricity to my house (and don't want to have to string the wire all the way from power plants for myself.)

I want my local power plants. I don't want to have to burn candles and firewood (both of which would be expensive) for light and heat. I want traffic lights. I want superhighways. I want a postal system for packages. I want architectural projects to be coded and approved so that we don't get buildings like they have in India that fall down and kill hundreds of people or go up in flames at the slightest excuse.

I want a standing army. I want a standing navy. I want a standing air force and I want them equipped.

I want standard weights and measures enforced so that a pound of rice really weighs 16 ounces and not what someone "says" is a pound. I want to know that the medical professionals I see are licensed and that someone, somewhere, makes sure they have a good education and aren't faking it (as so often happened in the 1800's and early 1900's.

I want public schools for kids who don't want to be homeschooled and whose parents can't afford private schools. I don't want education to be the domain of stay at home folks who may not be that well educated in math and so forth and I don't want education to be something that only the elite have.

And yes, I'm willing to pay for all that and more.

Yes, for the reasons Byrd listed.

Although I would LOVE a la carte taxation as an option, too. There are some things that get far too much of our tax dollars, and some that get far too little. It would be an awesome example of "for the people, by the people" if we could directly dictate exactly what the taxpayer wants or doesn't want funded.

a reply to: EternalSolace

I would give the government only the taxes for the services I would like to use. So, I would pay for the roads. Since the roads account for about 3% of taxes, my tax bill would go down 97%. All other services I'd like to get from other private sources. So, private retirement instead of social security, private fire coverage, private security, etc.

The social contract is shredded to bits. We are supposed to negotiate as citizens with our government just like any other contract. There should be bargaining power on both sides, the contract should be written and signed by both parties just like any other contract. A good contract has a cancellation policy for when things go badly between the two parties.

We are not supposed to be forced into the government as subjects and slaves. We are supposed to have government by consent of the governed only. Government employees are not supposed to have more rights than any one individual, and furthermore rights that one does not have should not be allowed to be delegated to others.

Modern government is a chaos worse than anarchy is alleged to be, though I believe anarchists positions are incorrect to some extent. We have no rights respected, they are all torn to shreds. We have high taxes and a high government slavery burden around the world.

With no state tax on a gross check of about 700 they take 150. how many government services does a college student working in the field of study benefit from?...0 aside from roads and infrastructure which a lot of is billed to me in stuff like internet and power. Total sham if you ask me...

a reply to: Byrd

Good points there. The underlying reason I think taxes are deducted automatically is because once accepted as an inevitability, we don't look too closely at where our money is going or how it's being used. I believe that if we were required to physically hand over cash for taxes owed, we'd collectively scrutinize how that money is being used on an unprecedented level.

It would create a lot more of willing participants in the political arena and a lot of the waste we're seeing now would just simply not be accepted anymore.

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: EternalSolace

Would you voluntarily give organized crime or the mob the money they say you owe for their protection racket? Is that a better question or maybe a more realistic comparison?

Cheers - Dave

So if the mob could automatically deduct from your paycheck protection fees, people could swallow it easier? I understand the comparison you've made, but my point is that if the working class had to physically hand over currency to pay their obligations, it would quickly change the way our government operates.

My point is quite simple, whether you meet the demands of organized crime (government) or organized crime (mob), you are still operating withing a monopolistic system that operates only because it is a monopoly and can use fear, extortion and other criminal activities such as racketeering to meet their criminal goals.

What is the difference if both styles of criminal enterprise use the same MO, other than the government's ability to make its own criminal activities legal?

Cheers - Dave