Satan slandered by Christians, God's loyal servant.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Im using years of study as my source and the fact that the bible agrees with me is irrefutable. Read the first 5 pages of Job where The Adversary asks for permission to torture Job and God says fine, just don't kill him.

Satisfied?

originally posted by: Metatron365
Lets face it, the only book in the bible were Satan is doing anything other than his job as The Adversary of man, the temper even.

Are you saying Satan's job is the Adversary and the temper of man, but in The Book of _______, he is doing something different?

originally posted by: Metatron365

He was not Lucifer (there is no Lucifer), and is not a fallen angel and if you fall for his tricks it's your fault.

You're right, Satan is not Lucifer, but according to the Bible, there was a Lucifer Isaiah 14:12. Maybe you're not using the Bible for your beliefs, I'm just assuming since this is the topic of your OP that you would. From other texts, Lucifer seems to have been a supernatural/extraterrestrial "King" of Babylon, one who could ascent to the sky and the stars.

Also, I believe Satan is very clearly referred to as a fallen angel, a being created by God.

originally posted by: Metatron365

He also was not that talking probably bipedal serpent of Eden fame because that guy was turned into a belly crawling reptile/serpent and there ain't no coming back from that.

Correct, I don't believe Satan is believed by anyone who is paying attention to be the Old Testament/Garden of Eden serpent.

So what are you saying, that Christians are accusing Satan of being things he is not? You could actually write an interesting thread about that, and explaining "The Serpent", "Satan", and "Lucifer" for the three different characters they are.

Isaiah 14:12 the title of this section in my bible is called satire on the death of a tyrant.

It has a footnote
B. This Mashal satirises a fallen tyrant; some think it was written by Isaiah himself to celebrate the death of Sargon II or Sennacherib and supplemented in the exilic period by a few indtroductory lines applying it to a KING OF BABYLON. Others hold it against Nebuchadnezzar or Nabonidus.

14:12 How did you come to fall from the heavens,
Dayster, son of Dawn?*
How did you come to be thrown to the ground,
you who enslaved the nations?

*another footnote

e. This section of the poem contains severel expressions common in Phoenician mythology: the Most High is the Phoenician Baal. The fathers identified the fall of the morning star with that of the prince of demons.

So Lucifer was a Catholic invention. He didnt exist in Judaism and the reference to Baal is metaphorical, as he is talking to a human.

early Judaism viewed satan as the one who bears witness to your guilt, almost like a District Attorney. The fire breathing, pitchfork demon guy evolved over time from mankind needing to blame the evil of this world on for surely an all loving God could not be the blame.

a reply to: Metatron365

Is that you Ras? Why not Metatron364? That would be more fitting. Maybe you should actually add substance to your thread.

originally posted by: Metatron365 He was not Lucifer (there is no Lucifer)

Let's see is scripture agree with Rasaghul/Metatron/Gnosisisfaith and his other account names.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Well, well, looking there, surprise, surprise, the Bible says there is a Lucifer and that shows the OP is in error.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: Metatron365 He was not Lucifer (there is no Lucifer)

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Well, well, looking there, surprise, surprise, the Bible says there is a Lucifer and that shows the OP is in error.

Well looky there, surprise, surprise! Isaiah is cursing the King Of Babylon!

Isaiah 14:4
That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Is Satan (Lucifer) a man?

Isaiah 14:16
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

a reply to: Metatron365
Speaking of the devil, I mean Satan, maybe it's all part of the grand symmetry of things? Did Satan wrote books or had his minions of prophets, messengers and preachers?

My apologies for the reply, the devil made me do it... yeah, I mean, you know...

a reply to: windword
there are two levels of communicatin there. It is more than you give it credit for

When did the king of Babylon ever fall from heaven.?

When was the King of Babylon ever said to me a son of the morning?

but let's look at the whole unit of scripture

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

when did the King of Babylon ever say he would exalt his throne above that of God or that he would ascend into heaven.

Lucifer was one of the morning stars that sang together when God created the earth before there was a depth and fountains of waters

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Lucifer was an anointed cherub, and this was not the King of Tyre because he never walked in the garden of Eden nor was he an anointed cherub that covereth.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

You need to compare scripture with scripture, Study and rightly divide and you will see the truth of this

a reply to: ChesterJohn

When was the King of Babylon ever said to me a son of the morning?


when did the King of Babylon ever say he would exalt his throne above that of God or that he would ascend into heaven.

I don't know. We only have Isaiah's word for it. But I can see it from Isaiah's point of view.

I would imagine that the Israelites would attribute the King of Babylon, who conquered and made them captives, could be deified accordingly, making himself God's enemy. I'm sure that Isaiah thought that in order to have the nerve to attack and enslave God's people, he, the King of Babylon, must have said in his heart that he will rise to equal God.

As far as your Ezekiel 28 citation, there is no indication that Ezekiel is speaking of Satan, the same Satan that visited Job with God's permission.

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

a reply to: windword

Well first I will say it is actually Gods preserved words not Isaiah's.
However my point was the Lucirfer did exist and the bible is clear on it, the OP is wrong. Who by the way had been decieving all of us as he was Gnosisiisfaith and seven other names as well.

as far as Ezekiel who said it was Satan I connected it to Lucifer. If Satan and Lucifer are the same person then it is by design of Gods word not mine. However it is not unusual for beings to be given or have multiple names in scripture.

The connection you make is of the words used in Job, "the sons of God". Very good that you can see rightly with the connection of the Morning Stars point that included the sons of God, which is a division of scripture and allows you to see deeper meanings into God's [reserved words. This also points to those who were taking wives of the daughters of men and corrupting the gene pool which carried on after the flood hence giants still existing. however another point altogether.

So Lucifer for thousands of years was thought to be Satan this seems to be a fallen name not his original name, which was Lucifer.

Remember that Isaiah and Ezekiel were prophets who received info from God just as Paul did. So it would not be out of place for God to inspire his words to put their types in place as King of Babylon or King of Tyre, and then add some info that did not fit so those who would later (in 2016 or even sooner) study to show themselves approved and rightly divide the word of Truth to gather truths about Lucifer/Satan.

Sons of God are part of those cross references that were supernaturally placed in scriptures so those who would study to show themeselves approved by rightly dividing the word of truth would then compare spiritual to spiritual together and show the truth that God intended for us to know.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well first I will say it is actually Gods preserved words not Isaiah's.

Man's words. Probably not even anyone who was named Isaiah.

as far as Ezekiel who said it was Satan I connected it to Lucifer.

Nope. Ezekiel never called the King of Tyre Lucifer.

Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

The King of Tyre and the King of Babylon were both Lucifer? And, you think that Lucifer is same entity as Satan, the same Satan from the book of Job?

Nope. This is that double meaning, meaning that the King, a man, set himself up, in his heart, as equal to God, and was therefore elevated to deification and cursed by the prophet.

5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

These are mere mortals that are being cursed. Not "Lucifer", the "Devil" or Satan. These are the enemies and the captors of the Hebrew nation of Israel; God's only begotten son.

22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exodus 4:22-23

I don't care who the OP is. I don't come on these boards to stalk returning members, but to comment on the content.

The OP is right. Satan gets a bad rap. In the Old Testament, he's a servant of God, as is Isiah's hero.

originally posted by: Metatron365
Isaiah 14:12 the title of this section in my bible is called satire on the death of a tyrant.

It has a footnote
B. This Mashal satirises a fallen tyrant; some think it was written by Isaiah himself to celebrate the death of Sargon II or Sennacherib and supplemented in the exilic period by a few indtroductory lines applying it to a KING OF BABYLON. Others hold it against Nebuchadnezzar or Nabonidus.

14:12 How did you come to fall from the heavens,
Dayster, son of Dawn?*
How did you come to be thrown to the ground,
you who enslaved the nations?

*another footnote

e. This section of the poem contains severel expressions common in Phoenician mythology: the Most High is the Phoenician Baal. The fathers identified the fall of the morning star with that of the prince of demons.

So Lucifer was a Catholic invention. He didnt exist in Judaism and the reference to Baal is metaphorical, as he is talking to a human.

The original Hebrew word, translated as 'Lucifer', is 'Heylel', which means 'shining one' or 'light bearer'. The Latin word 'Lucifer' means "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".

The Codex Vulgate, which was a pre-Catholic Latin translation, uses the word 'Lucifer'. The Vulgate was a source document for the KJV translation.

The Septuagint (which is an entirely Jewish translation into Greek, from hundreds of years before Christianity) renders the 'Heylel' as 'Heosphorus', meaning bringer of dawn. So that agrees that 'Lucifer' is a correct translation into Latin of 'Heylel'.

The Catholics had their own Bible at the time of writing of the KJV. It was the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible (also based upon the Vulgate). The KJV was a Church of England Bible that the Catholics opposed.

Interestingly, 'Helel' is a Canaanite god (pre-Judaistic) who fell from heaven after a rebellion trying to dethrone the High god El.

So, not a Catholic invention, a translation from Hebrew, which was itself most likely used poetically, from earlier Canaanite stories.

Also, the sections in both Isiah and Ezekiel are using a Hebrew poetical form. They are not talking about the human rulers of Babylon or Tyre, that much can be seen from the content, but are talking of the power behind the throne. In the case of Isiah, he was describing that the rule of Babylon, even though it would capture and destroy Israel, was temporary and it too would fall.

Similarly, Ezekiel's lament against the King of Tyre was talking about the ultimate fall of Tyre.

a reply to: Metatron365

Oops, looks like Metatron365 has been banned too. Same as all their other aliases.

a reply to: windword

The king of Babylon had the whole country worship him when the music played, thats what Isaiah is talking about.

If Satan was against God, why did he help him carry out his plan to sacrifice Jesus? He was instrumental, possessing Judas.

The crucifixion is salvation, if Satan was God's enemy, he would have wanted it to NOT happen. But he helped.

a reply to: chr0naut


You lie, there is no such god in Canaanite mythology as Helel you Christian people just make up stuff hoping no one will catch you. Busted, I study Canaanite mythology for fun.

LIAR.

a reply to: Othello420

I was beginning to think you gave up, Metatron.

originally posted by: Othello420
a reply to: windword

The king of Babylon had the whole country worship him when the music played, thats what Isaiah is talking about.

If Satan was against God, why did he help him carry out his plan to sacrifice Jesus? He was instrumental, possessing Judas.

The crucifixion is salvation, if Satan was God's enemy, he would have wanted it to NOT happen. But he helped.

Yes, and Satan also helped steel Jesus' resolve when he was tempted by Satan in the desert.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Ha! Far from it. At least two identities are in operation on ATS even as we speak.
Fortunately he's a transparent character who always gives himself away.

:-Oa reply to: windword
Again, he just does his job