Holy trinity dogma is polytheistic.

a reply to: windword

Dr. Heiser uses many small points of scripture in his talk . I can understand you not wanting to go through it all point by point and that ok .I don't want to present to you all of his points for a discussion as I feel it would be a pointless effort .I merely offered a academic scholars lecture on the subject and one that is able to talk in layman's terms .Something that other academics are either not willing to do or are incapable of doing . Not all teachers are created equally . So no prof in the vid but evidence from scripture and from the ancient Jewish thought to make a convincing argument for the God head .

ETA . I just noticed that 3 members of this thread seem to have vanished . I wonder if they were one in the same and were staring each other .??

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Dr. Heiser uses many small points of scripture in his talk

Again, you're talking in generalities, pointing to someone who you believe understands this ideology better than you do. You don't understand it well enough to discuss it, but only to refer me to academic doctrinal apologists.

I've given you scripture and Jewish tradition.

The meeting tent has 4 sides and is held up by 1 pole (Flame).



The Trinity erases the reality of creation, which belies the symbolism of Jesus Christ and his incarnation into the physical world.

ETA . I just noticed that 3 members of this thread seem to have vanished . I wonder if they were one in the same and were staring each other .??

Ah yes, a duplicitous member who will be back, I have no doubt. But, their topics are intriguing.

a reply to: windword

Again, you're talking in generalities, pointing to someone who you believe understands this ideology better than you do.

In the book of Daniel he is given a vision and told to seal the vision up until the end times . In the Book of Revelation John is told to Wright down what he seen and heard but is also told not to record what the thunders said .At best we can use our imaginations and in general ways in trying to get the bigger picture .If we take dogmatic stances on some of these issues we find that we will be at odds with others . If we don't then we will find that we are still at odds with others . At best we can see that God is cryptic about some things and He probably does have a good reason for being so . He is fighting a battle against the unseen realm and He is keeping His cards very close to His chest .

The Trinity view only comes into play for the believer getting baptised imo . Neither is essentialist for salvation .The type of pitch Noah used on the Ark should not have come into question on weather the ones inside would have been in danger of surviving the flood .They trusted God gave them sufficient instructions to weather the storm .The ones outside did not .

a reply to: windword

I found this link with a triangle pic and text you may be interested in . www.laymanperspective.com... .html

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Your link isn't working. However, a "triangle" is a concept and can't exist in reality. In reality things have dimension.

The concept of a 4 fold God was never a mystery, sealed up until the end of days. It's easily displayed, for anyone's investigation in YHVH.

a reply to: windword

The concept of a 4 fold God was never a mystery, sealed up until the end of days. It's easily displayed, for anyone's investigation in YHVH.

Is it possible that a 4 fold +- dimensional God entering into a 3D universe might be represented slightly different ? I am thinking of the 2D flatlander scenario .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Is it possible that a 4 fold +- dimensional God entering into a 3D universe might be represented slightly different ?

Sure, but why would you want a god that only exists in thought, and not in the same reality that the rest of you lives in?

To accept the Trinity is to accept that Jesus Christ didn't/doesn't really exist outside of thought/ideology.

a reply to: windword

Well He is claimed to have been here and is now back in the unseen realm .Why you ask ? good question ,but I am sure what followed His departure from here has left a print or a record as to what He may be up to .He is not winging it but has set down many patterns within the old and new testament . Paul had called it a mystery because it was not recognizable from the old testament text without the hignsight . It took the group up until 63ad to get over what they thought was going to happen . They were date setters too . Once they realized that it was not what they thought they put to the task of compiling the new testament cannon .

ETA oh and God has always been outside His creation but does have the ability to interact with it ...much like others of the unseen realm .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

ETA oh and God has always been outside His creation but does have the ability to interact with it ...much like others of the unseen realm .

As far I know, there is nothing in the Bible that confirms that assertion. God walked in the Garden and in the camps of the Israelite. Trinitarian apologists are/have been twisting scripture to fit there truncated and false doctrine of the Trinity.

Well He is claimed to have been here and is now back in the unseen realm

The whole symbolism of Jesus Christ having been among us, even if for a short time, is a confirmation of the theology of the 4th aspect of God, "The Word", which represent ALL of creation.

The idea is that the Hebrew god "exists". The Christian god, as symbolized through the Trinity, does not, cannot "exist". But that's not really what Jesus taught in the Gospels.

I guess the real is question is "Why do Trinitarians feel the need to eleminate the 4th aspetc of the Hebrew God, and still call Jesus the Hebrew Messiah?".

a reply to: windword

guess the real is question is "Why do Trinitarians feel the need to eleminate the 4th aspetc of the Hebrew God, and still call Jesus the Hebrew Messiah?".

First off it was the early writings of Christianity that moved the two powers in heaven which was a Jewish thought to a Trinity thought of the God head . It was not stated directly in Genesis but was something that emerged from the burning bush that Moses went to check out . The burning bush is one of the first indications of a two power God head .It shows up throughout OT scripture but is brought to the full 3 power God head in the New Testament scripture .

Can I ask what would be your status concerning deity ?

a reply to: the2ofusr1

The burning bush is one of the first indications of a two power God head

No it's not.

It's representative of the "Eternal Flame". The unconsumed bush represents, on a mundane level, the people of Israel unconsumed by the oppression of Egypt. It represents, on a higher level, the soul unconsumed by the trials of life. It represents "eternal life".

The "Burning Bush" represented God's promise to the people of Israel of a "meeting tent" in which the "eternal flame of God" would forever dwell with them, "on Earth as it is in Heaven".

Jesus taught that YOU are "The Temple of God'", the unconsumed bush, alit; The Light of World.

Matthew 5:14
You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.

Can I ask what would be your status concerning deity ?

How do you define "deity"?

a reply to: windword

Ephesians 4
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

This verse implies that God is not outside of creation, but inside of everything within creation.

ETA: I am agreeing with you, not implying that you were wrong.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

ETA: I am agreeing with you, not implying that you were wrong.

Good one!