Immortality of Consciousness – Reincarnation

The Universe is the product of an unknown source ... there are always more questions than answers
Questioning is the fuel of scientific discoveries

As a product of the Universe ... Concious beings come to be ... we are one species amongst many here on Earth
The mystery of what started it all is not a new question ... Our Ancients asked the same questions ...

One thing is for sure ... The process of creating stars of which our Sun is one is an ongoing process ...
The same process that creates concious beings is Eternal like the Universe itself

I believe conciousness is a form of energy as such energy can not die
Dense matter can slow energy down but never diminish it's impetus

To create we use energy ... Yet energy alone can be destructive
We temper the energy with Intelligence

The Universe is an intelligent design therefore it has an intelligent architect
Conciousness can never die ... only material bodies ... star dust to star dust

Whether this is true or not IE Conciousness the Soul or whatever is Eternal
We shall all find out one day

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Sorry bout the rude late reply, been wanting to lay off the site...

Well, if anything, way, and well before the Sun goes supernova, our flesh and bones would be dry as dust, and to have become ashes. And we'd probably have our remains, and other elements and compounds blown off by the sheer force and constant bombardment from the Sun to have probably blown or burnt remains to be cosmic dust once again, and probably with some unfathomable amount of time, would give life to some other planets again, ether in our solar system, or some other one. Rinse and Repeat.

I am kind of a believer that past actions, do affect the present, and the future. Ones terrifying deed, could have a such a big impression, that it affects a lifetime, or life times, but will be forgotten eventually to be repeated. However, ones act of kindness could last forever...Defining moments and what not.

Thing, is the Soul, in it own idea, is just perplexing and maddening really... having nether being affected by solid objects, or most forms of energy, or time. Some beliefs, say that physical realm has no affect on any spirits, while other beliefs could say, yes, the physical realm could have more of an effect, like walking into a temple or church with muddy boots, and putting my feet up, would send me to Hell. Which is why I brought up the hereditary /evolution, reincarnation jumbo, which is why some people have hereditary/or family cursing or blessings, due to generation of generation of conditioning and exposure to whatever, wether intentional or not.

Past Sin, karma, BS. Thats as far I can put it.

a reply to: Prezbo369

you seem so sure in your science. Why?

Did you look around enough or are your eyes closed.
Let me help you a bit.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There are a lot of similar topic on ats. What are they pointing to?
That material body and brain are all there is?

I don't care about your beliefs, but science will soon come around to what the spiritual people are saying for eons...in my opinion. But scientist will use their own words and explanations that we today understand the most.

Maybe it is time for some meditations and see if there is really something within eee?... and try to experiance some weirdness to get your jimmies rustled? Well only if you are curious and open about it. And most importantly, If you are not afraid of knowing.

Than you will get your personal evidence.

We all did, when we came "knockin on the heavens doors'!"

: )

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
a reply to: Prezbo369
1. Yes. I am a person, not a judicial system designed to hand out punishments to people. Obviously the latter requires a different standard due to the consequences of judgment. My belief system does not need to subscribe to the legal system. I can give weight and value to whatever I want. Maybe I'm not quite as closed-minded as you.

It depends on if you care if the things you believe are true or not. Why wouldn't you have the highest standard possible for such extraordinary claims?

2. You're missing my point, which was merely that it is evidence that can be given weight (regardless of the amount of weight you think it should be given).

Sure it can, but again it depends on how whether or not you actually care about holding true beliefs.

Even Stevenson himself said that the all of the evidence he had spent 40 years collecting was not compelling...

3. As a legal trained person, you do not know what hearsay is. What someone else says is hearsay regardless of substantiation if you are repeating the words they say. Point being, in court, you should have the speaker as a witness so the judge and jury can evaluate credibility. What people said may be hearsay, but the doctor's reports of his observations are not.

Considering the fact that a great many of his 'reports' were filled translated anecdotes or tales from history, it was hearsay, even if you're a 'legal trained person'.

4. Resorting to childish attacks are beneath you. You disagree with me. It is not a reflection on my critical thinking skills.

Saying I think you have poor critical thinking skills is not an 'attack'.

5. This is not court. I do not need to convince a judge or jury. This is a theory. Since when are scientific or other discoveries or theories subject to the legal system and convincing a judge? Ludicrous.

If you're going to take such claims as truth then the case presented for their authenticity should be convincing or compelling, just like in a case of law.

6. "Suspect"? Is that your new standard? If so, we have plenty of reason to suspect that. My OP can be Exhibit A.

Hence my opinion on your critical thinking skills...

7. There is no true understanding of consciousness and the brain. We can poke and prod and see how that impacts the brain. If the brain is the device by which our consciousness communicates, obviously injuries would impact its functionality. If I smash my radio, it may not work as well and disrupt the communications.

While we might not know everything about consciousness we do know a great deal, and we've never seen a mind or consciousness without a brain. So before we even consider the two to be independent, an explanation or example of how a consciousness can exist outside of a brain needs to be discovered.

8. You made a blanket statement with no rebuttal as to what is incorrect about his quote. I'm surprised, considering your unrelenting desire for mainstream facts (as you choose them) to substantiate anything.

You missed the part where he said that the scientific method was a secular religion?...

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Prezbo369

you seem so sure in your science. Why?

It works

Did you look around enough or are your eyes closed.
Let me help you a bit.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There are a lot of similar topic on ats. What are they pointing to?
That material body and brain are all there is?

I love ATS, but the number of threads on a particular topic here is not a barometer for truth.

I don't care about your beliefs, but science will soon come around to what the spiritual people are saying for eons...in my opinion.

Find me a coherent and consistent definition for 'spiritual' and then we could talk about what those people are saying...

Maybe it is time for some meditations and see if there is really something within eee?... and try to experiance some weirdness to get your jimmies rustled? Well only if you are curious and open about it. And most importantly, If you are not afraid of knowing.

Than you will get your personal evidence.

We all did, when we came "knockin on the heavens doors'!"

: )

How do you know you weren't hallucinating?

a reply to: Prezbo369

1. Highest legal standard would be beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how I assess my own personal beliefs.'

2. "True" is subjective for purposes of this discussion. We won't know until we die (if ever) what is "true." What I believe is a different story.

3. This argument again?

4. It isn't true. On your logic you can't say it or believe it if it isn't true. You're not permitted to have an opinion or make assessments. You must accept only what is true. See?

5. The evidence is convincing and compelling to me. Your opinion is just that, your opinion.'

6. Opinion, exactly. So you understand what an opinion is?

7. You're looking for an explanation within the confounds of science as you know it. I am more open-minded.

8. In its own sense, one could argue it is. His point is one open-minded to the possibility, not stuck within the stick confines of what you believe to be true. Just as you suggest I provide absolute proof of reincarnation, you would be unable to provide absolute proof that reincarnation does not occur.

I personally think that we come back over and over again until we get it right, and I won't go into my opinion here on what "right" means.


Dolores Cannon is a magical woman who had the capability of seeing into people's past lives. She wrote a series of books called the Convoluted Universe which I recommend to anyone interested in this topic. She traveled the globe and everyone she put under would tell stories of the past here on earth and all the stories were pretty much the same.

originally posted by: Imightknow
I personally think that we come back over and over again until we get it right, and I won't go into my opinion here on what "right" means.


Dolores Cannon is a magical woman who had the capability of seeing into people's past lives. She wrote a series of books called the Convoluted Universe which I recommend to anyone interested in this topic. She traveled the globe and everyone she put under would tell stories of the past here on earth and all the stories were pretty much the same.

I will look into those books. Thank you for the suggestion.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Who says anything about vision, this is not our only sense. We are only wired up to use our eyes for identification which is very limiting to our true being.

Try instead positive loving emotions, feelings and intuition... You know stuff which are not particularly scientific.

Universe was always here, just as it is and now just becouse science, in a few hundred years of existence could not proof something you make it like it does not exist at all.

How is that not wired for people I will never understand. How can you accept it with such ease.

Inspect yourself and human condition to the most micro level possible. What and who are you in reality and try to find out on your own. Contemplate for a bit about that if you will.

Look when you meditate regularly, many things can occur. After you start to get a hold on your thoughts and learn how to be serene and naturally relaxed in silence.
Vision, sometimes hallucinations ... sometimes both, feelings, intuition, dreams, astral words, spirits, full bliss ....many many more wonderful things.

All things are a part of us. And we can learn from them all! You are just using the science for learning about yourself instead of using your own being!?

Well ... all this stuff happens in the other state of consciousness, which are not waking default state, which we are using every day. And we are using science in this state of consciousness. To proof something in other state of mind?

why do you deny your full potential of mind or consciousness. Why deny the full possible expression of our minds and consciousness?

Just becouse science did not proof it is real?

Okey.

Your choice. Keep to "the real" or "reality" which science defines and accept today. But what about in 100 years? What will they find out?

so you see, I just like to explore my Self to the limit and discover my full potential on my own experiance what is true and false. And I discovered that even the terms like mind and consciousness are not what we think they are. We are limiting them the full expression even by the definitions very much! They are much more, with so much more potential.

Look around what is happening today?
Do you think we are living that way?
Are we using our potential?

Science says we don't know. We will find out? Maybe it is true or it is not.

Well, Ok, wait it out guys, it is not a competition.

It is life.

Learning and loving.

if everyone would just not stop learning. Ever. All their lives.
We could learn to love each other with our full potential...easily and naturally!

A lot of people, since the beginning of time, like to investigate their own true nature and a lot of them find so much more truth within than what is outside. But the best is to use both, why limit yourself that way?

You see we can and should learn from BOTH experiance AND information.

So what experiance do you have?
did you maybe try meditation?
did you maybe try lucid dreaming?

did you maybe try any other wired and so called woo woo stuff for a long period with positive intentions and emotions and what did you conclude on your own?

I did and still do and I am not saying I know the truth. But I am certain that materialistic view is false by many different experiences and some of them are so far away from science that it does not dare to even address them... for now.

But even science will learn and change and develop...if we are not destroyed before that happens...by it.

Without wanting to sound trite. A really simple explanation of reincarnation goes like this.

We all think we are 'I. My sense of I is the same sense of I that you and anyone or anything else who feels the sense of I. Not in an ego sense the ego is a social construction, but the sense of I is more of a positional point of view.we feel central to our experience The I feels it's at the centre of what is going on in its own life. We all feel that all I sensations feel that. Therefor we are all I just experiencing life in a different position in space and time. The dying man will have a sense of I just as much as the new born baby's sense of I. There will always be Is (plural
When one person dies another is born. I'm not saying there's a connection between those two events, but that's just what happens in our life. People die and people are born. Or I dies and I are born. When you die you return to the unconscious state that you were before you were born. Imagine going to sleep and never waking up = death. Then waking up having never gone to sleep= birth.

Sorry if that's a really simplistic response, but I don't claim to be an expert on the subject

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
a reply to: Prezbo369

1. Highest legal standard would be beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how I assess my own personal beliefs.'

Why wouldn't you have the highest standards possible when it comes to deciding the truth value of a claim? Especially one as extraordinary as this?

2. "True" is subjective for purposes of this discussion. We won't know until we die (if ever) what is "true." What I believe is a different story.

Why would what you believe be different from the truth?...

4. It isn't true. On your logic you can't say it or believe it if it isn't true. You're not permitted to have an opinion or make assessments. You must accept only what is true. See?

That's not even close to what I've said......but why wouldn't you accept what is true???

5. The evidence is convincing and compelling to me. Your opinion is just that, your opinion.'

Well it's not just my opinion, it was also the opinion of the person that collected it, the same person you quote in your OP....

7. You're looking for an explanation within the confounds of science as you know it. I am more open-minded.

By open-minded do you mean your willing to accept anecdotal hearsay as proof of extraordinary claims?

[quot8. In its own sense, one could argue it is. His point is one open-minded to the possibility, not stuck within the stick confines of what you believe to be true. Just as you suggest I provide absolute proof of reincarnation, you would be unable to provide absolute proof that reincarnation does not occur.

The possibility of reincarnation being true is always there, but if you wish to get as close to the truth as possible you wouldn't take unconvincing anecdotal tales as proof enough for you to believe it's true.

What you're advocating here is just gullibility.

a reply to: Prezbo369

The possibility of reincarnation being true is always there....

Thank you for finally agreeing with me.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
a reply to: Prezbo369

The possibility of reincarnation being true is always there....

Thank you for finally agreeing with me.

It's as much a possibility of the universe being sat on the back of a giant Turtle IMO.

In other words I think it's incredibly unlikely so I don't think we agree at all, and it's clear that such claims will be ridiculed when discussed in the mainstream until those making the claims bring more to the table than just hearsay and old wives tales...