So what classes do you take?

a reply to: UnBreakable
Actually. What are the salaries within that business.

I'm personally going for cybersecurity. Hopefully it opens some doors for me.

I am taking an advanced course " Yodeling 502" at the Kinsey Institute Indiana University. This will elevate my status in the nursing home my wife put me into five years ago.

originally posted by: onequestion
Here we are folks... The unemployment number is lower, and the total labor force continues to decline... And more kids continue to graduate college with degrees they can't use only to end up with the same warehouse job everyone else is trying to get! Or stuck in the revolving door of a staffing agency.

Apparently IT is out.... The trade unions are out unless your uncle is in...

So what's left?

What is a degree that's actually worth getting?

If you don't want IT go with something focused on 3d modeling. Many engineering courses are focused on that these days and there's also the artistic route. 3d printing is the future and a lot of money is going to be flowing to the people who can make the models a business needs to print. You can even get these degrees in 2 year programs, I've got one myself as something of a back up plan. Realistically you need about 6 classes and practice to be good with it.

I haven't used the degree much outside of hobby activities (not that I've tried either) but I did once use it for a real estate company. I took the blueprints of their homes, 3d modeled them, and then printed copies out that they could display alongside setting up a virtual reality walk through of the home so they could show it off to a prospective buyer before actually selling it.

Either go the engineering route if you want a backup engineering career or go the artistic route if you wouldn't mind being an artist. The main part of both is in modeling, the only difference is that one trains you in ZBrush while the other is in AutoCAD (and you'll probably get 3dsMax/Maya from either)

originally posted by: Tiamat384
a reply to: olaru12
Well. Im supposed, or am expected to decide on my major by second year (after this semester). Is that not deciding what I want to do with my life?

Not really. In the US particularly, most people do not ultimately work in their field of study. College is primarily for two things. To learn how to think, and to get an indepth body of knowledge on a field. Actually landing a job in your field is a bonus because it will pay well. Most people tend to hate their field by the end of their degree though which probably doesn't help matters when it comes to job placement.

a reply to: Aazadan
Then I'm completely confused as to why college is so important. I know how to think, frankly college seems more about telling you what to think. So pro USA and pro liberals at least one occasion. That's personal experience. What is the purpose of a getting indepth knowledge if it won't even be used by your job?

a reply to: Tiamat384

It's a pointless piece of paper.

Ita funny because on jobssites we always joke that it must be a moron from college who had that idea because they always had a tendency to be clueless.

a reply to: onequestion
Pointless piece of paper that leaves many in debt....great and I bought into it all, or in any case was pushed into it. I don;t have a personal opinion on the value. All I know is it won't help me decide what I want to do (so what am I studying?) and won't land me a job...

originally posted by: Tiamat384
a reply to: Aazadan
Then I'm completely confused as to why college is so important. I know how to think, frankly college seems more about telling you what to think. So pro USA and pro liberals at least one occasion. That's personal experience. What is the purpose of a getting indepth knowledge if it won't even be used by your job?

I've never had that experience in college, I have 4 degrees and am working on a 5th, somewhere around 360 semester credit hours. Sure you're given the means to determine the answers in technical fields, or you're taught parts of the process in a subject like Math but I have never actually been sat down and told what to think. Going by subject:

Math - We're told the theory and then to invent a process to find the answer. It's less about knowing the answer, or even the formula to get the answer, and much more about being able to derive your own formula for the given task.

Philosophy - Extremely open ended, we're told the points by famous philosophers of course, but every class I've taken on the subject has been more about attacking their premises and instead creating your own premise and defending it.

English - I've written papers on literally anything and everything. I found it's most fun to pick a point contrary to everything you believe, and write a paper supporting it.

Speech - I didn't actually do my work in this one. Instead I decided to improv speech everything, as that seemed the most useful.

Psychology - Lots of memorization in these classes, but also a lot of room for interpretation, just like English and Philosophy they're all about fabricating an argument and supporting it.

Then there's the tech related stuff (my field for everything).
The professional art classes were amazing, by far the hardest things I've ever taken but it opened me up to being able to do left brained or right brained thinking.

I do a lot of programming too (over half my semester credits are in this), and so far I have never had an instructor tell me what to think. They lay out a problem, go over the partial specs of something you might use in the solution, and then tell you to figure it out.

It's a lot of problem solving, and doing so without Google to give all the answers.

As for the question of why get knowledge if you won't use it on the job? I suppose that depends. Why are you in college? College isn't meant to be just job training. It's supposed to challenge your ideas, make you reconsider everything you know to be true, potentially gain some concept of learning that what you know isn't trustworthy information, network with people, and focus on self improvement. The job training portion is pretty minor considering most people do not go into the field on their degree. Still, society is better off for those people having gained the knowledge.

It's technical schools and community colleges that focus much more directly on job skills and a path to employment.

There's also a small benefit, that some knowledge is actually cross discipline. People who have different backgrounds will approach the same problem in different ways.

Lets take a scenario I actually had come up recently. I'm making a video game and am testing it with a few people. There are four of us doing the testing.
Person #1 has a communications background. He observes the players and asks them questions.
Person #2 has a math/business background. He places all of the game components into spreadsheets, and solves them for optimal solutions with different play patterns. Then observes how easily the players are able to figure out these solutions.
Person #3 uses a social media background to advertise certain features and how fun they are. Then observes players responses to the advertised features they're using.
Person #4 (me) is anti social and writes a computer program to simulate real players sitting down and playing the game millions of times per day, in order to more quickly generate a lot of data.

That's four completely different approaches, all are valid and all solve the problem. That's where the value of those degree's comes in. Even though it's outside of your field, much of the education is still applicable to problem solving.

a reply to: Aazadan
First off thanks for the comprehensive response and the time it took. I hadn't taken any math course as I am trying to avoid those for the life of me, but have taken an Intro to Psychology class just last semester and agree there is a decent amount of memory in it.

Political science classes, of which I am taking two, and history classes are rather interesting and of all the classes I've taken so far, have promoted the most discussion.

Which is, to an extent, odd considering that I am taking a Philosophy class, but there all we do is interpret the work we are reading and so far, that is all. I regret not discussing the many interesting questions of philosophy, of which to me relative reality and non-sentient reality or non-living reality/existence are of the most interest.

Everyone seems to look at college as the place where careers are born, so perhaps wrongly I assumed that is where you learn the information of your future career/job. So I suppose, besides simply for the sake of learning which is a fantastic reason for learning, it is excellent to study those topics which can be used in a wide array of jobs and situations.

Correct me if anything of which I've said is incorrect.

a reply to: Tiamat384

College does involve a lot of job training, but college and the real world are very different. College is all about having a controlled environment, you're usually given a problem which has a definitive solution, and you're taught either the solution itself or how to come to that solution. In the real world, it's not always about coming up with the right answer but rather about coming up with an answer that's good enough, or determining if there even is a good enough answer in the first place.

Honestly, my advice is to pick a subject that interests you but don't pick a subject that you enjoy as a hobby. Also, be sure to pick something that has real world applications. History and Political Science are very interesting subjects but they have little earnings potential unless you're willing to work all the way up to a Masters or more likely a Doctorate.

Also, remember that a bachelor's degree doesn't mean you're knowledgeable on a field. If you're going for a job in your field everyone has the degree, which means it's not worth anything. It's what you can bring to the job in addition to the degree that matters.

originally posted by: onequestion
Here we are folks... The unemployment number is lower, and the total labor force continues to decline... And more kids continue to graduate college with degrees they can't use only to end up with the same warehouse job everyone else is trying to get! Or stuck in the revolving door of a staffing agency.

Apparently IT is out.... The trade unions are out unless your uncle is in...

So what's left?

What is a degree that's actually worth getting?

Any degree in an industry that is difficult to outsource.
Any degree in an industry that is electronic based.
Any degree that has skills that are transferable in multiple industries.
Any degree that has skills in demand in multiple countries private sectors.

a reply to: Aazadan
Well could you make clear the difference between a hobby and that which interests me? I mean, surely a hobby is that which interests me, so what is the difference exactly?

Frankly, is there a point in studying for a degree below Masters even, though political science I may take as minor.

College almost seems as an experiment, meant to train the one(s) in the experiment.

originally posted by: Tiamat384
a reply to: Aazadan
Well could you make clear the difference between a hobby and that which interests me? I mean, surely a hobby is that which interests me, so what is the difference exactly?

Well, I can really only give examples from within my field which is making computer games. Most people in the field enjoy doing so, largely because the pay and hours worked weed out anyone who it's just a job for (much higher paying jobs, at better companies, doing the exact same thing if you're making business software instead). But even then, at the beginning of a project things are a lot of fun, it's interesting to plan out how everything will come together, do the software engineering, database schema, software tests, and so on. Once you get about 90% done though and you're at the play testing stage it becomes a miserable experience. Sitting down and playing a game level you built for 12+ hours, analyzing every little detail, doing every encounter over and over, and so on. It is mind numbing. This is why most people who make games barely play the games they make (if they do it at all), and actually why they play few games overall. It's important to leave work at work.

This also happens to be why peoples personal projects they throw on resumes are always 80% - 90% done. Once you cross that threshold it goes from fun to miserable. Consequently the best advice anyone ever gives in my field when talking about portfolios is to finish something. It doesn't matter if it's even good, so few people finish that if you can do so you're guaranteed a job.

I also maintain quite a few personal projects. What I've found is that my interest in working on them is directly proportional to how much I'm doing this stuff in school that week and the same is true for others. If I have a programming heavy semester (such as last semester where I took 5 programming classes at once... all in different languages), aside from my brain being mush I could barely even stand to look at my computer. In fact, I own multiple computers and it got to the point where I did homework on my good computer in the living room, and when that was done, just to be able to put it down I went into another room with a different laptop and browsed that on completely different subjects.

This semester in comparison which is easy (a mere 1 programming class... backlash from last semester) has me putting in 40-50 hours per week on personal projects because I'm pretty much not working on anything coding/design related at school.

Work is the same way, to take a different field. If you're a chef, after cooking for people all day long do you really want to go home and cook a meal for yourself? Worse yet, what if you have a family and they want professionally cooked meals? Oddly enough Chefs are one of the biggest demographics for taking their family to Wendys or other fast food places.

Frankly, is there a point in studying for a degree below Masters even, though political science I may take as minor.

College almost seems as an experiment, meant to train the one(s) in the experiment.

It is a very well documented fact that when a person is paid to do something they enjoy, it ceases to be entertainment and becomes a job. Often times it becomes less liked than the average job. College is about a few things, but one of those things is job training. You certainly shouldn't choose a career path involved in a field you hate, but it's generally best to not major in your favorite subject either. Another reason that it's bad to make a hobby your career is that the last thing you generally want to do after spending an 8 hour day at work is going home to work on that hobby. If you're going to college to learn skills for a professional life, it's a bad idea to try and make your personal life that profession.

Choosing a major comes down to a few questions:
#1. Are there jobs in this field? A simple one, there should be internships available for any who are interested, and by your junior year you should be able to get legitimate job offers from companies.

#2. Do the entry level jobs in this field pay enough for me to have a modest lifestyle? This will vary by person to person but my gauge here, is that the median income in the US is 50k, probably 55k by the time you graduate, and then 60k a couple years after that (talking 5 years in the future now). If you get a job in this field, will you be making atleast the median wage with 2 years of experience and a degree? Or at lower standards since not everything pays well. It is pretty much mathematically impossible to be financially secure in the US if you make less than $30/hour at the new craze of 30 hours/week (home ownership, proper insurance, safe working vehicle, the right amount in savings, proper investments, etc). Will your career pay atleast that much (plus the cost of your loans) right away?

#3. Does this major open up any secondary career options just incase the first doesn't pan out? This one is fairly simple. If you're trained to do one thing and only one thing, if that industry collapses or if you dislike it or if it just goes on a downturn and there are no jobs you have a problem. Any proper major is applicable to multiple fields.

#4. Is this field something you want to learn about and work on? Maybe it's possible to learn if the field isn't interesting but I wouldn't recommend it. It's generally easier to pick up information if you find the material engaging, so choose something that sounds interesting.


#5a. Do you already enjoy this field as a hobby?
#5b. If yes, are you willing to give it up as a hobby?

On the other hand, if you're choosing something you already like to do in your spare time, you need to be willing to give that activity up should the need arise, because most people don't handle bringing their work home with them very well. I can use an example of a friend of mine here. He's double majored in political science and history, and graduates next semester. We have something of a routine and go get dinner once a week most weeks. A large part of the talk centers around political strategy, which if you've ever read my posts here you'll see is something that really interests me. At some point though the subject just has to change, because while I'm responding to comments or analyzing what the DNC or RNC is doing, my friend has written 100 pages on that subject this week in way more detail than anyone cares to hear, and it just doesn't make good conversational material after a while.

1-4 in that list should all be a yes. If 5a is a yes, then 5b should also be a yes.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ReadLeader

I need to make money but my priorities are... Learn a skill that I can use to run my own business, thats the main point really.

Aren't you a carpenter? Was is your level of knowledge with electrical construction technology? Join the union it's not impossible, get your journeyman, open an LLC and flip houses on the side.

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: DAVID64

The problem is actually getting into a program. If you are white, don't have a 4.0, or aren't from another country then you need not apply.

Apply in Harlem.

Edit, nevermind, you have some deep seated issues if you actually believe people are getting it easier for being minorities. But what the hell, most of this forum consist of conservatives, or those whose first experience of diversity is in college or university, who am I trying to convince.

Unless there's something seriously off about the place you live, I actually sincerely hope you don't think the minorities getting in aren't qualified to be in there.

Nevermind, your experience in the world will prove some of those deep seated misconceptions wrong, in a very oddly only slightly relieving way.

A word of advice is to start at community college especially if you are from a working class neighborhood.

If you're not convinced, utilize the opportunities you are given access to if you are White like being able to walk, live and work in prestigious homogeneous "Main Street" in off-local affluent community storefront where you don't have your food spit in, where you don't have purses held tightly as you walk by as if you can't notice, where you don't have faces turn to such utter distaste as if a sour lemon were in cheek as you walk by on the street, where you don't have your employment applications and resumes thrown out, or where you aren't awkwardly followed and nervously barked out of stores for browsing a selection in a neighborhood that you've apparently spent 5 minutes too much of your year than you're allowed to in.

And also,

EEOC only applies to Businesses and institutions that employ over 50 people so you know. And it's rarely enforced if ever. Most of the times, companies fire you for trying to take action, or begin to create cases and build evidence for "that" to fire you for like they do for those who take unpaid time off for sick time and affect the stockholder's "bottom line"



My line of advice is due to my guess that you live in White Working Class America? Whether Asian, Indian or White.

Just know this at least as you walk away from this thread today.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ReadLeader

I need to make money but my priorities are... Learn a skill that I can use to run my own business, thats the main point really.

Go into sales advising. You pick up skills that you can use at the front of a business from. People skills and stranger skills.

Start small and then go to commissions or real estate. The skills you learn will apply to just about any business as they are customer interaction skills.

You don't even need college to do this. Then spend your college classes on something that's part of the infrastructure like learning BOOKKEEPING. So it's a near win/win. Either this dystopian infrastructure changes just to keep you jobless, or you land up with a job in its enforcement being the "blame" for the state of things. The system will either try to attack your character or attack your bet, and in either instance you "win".

Also if you are still hanging on this issue onequestion you can PM me and we could discuss this more in depth if you'd like.

a reply to: Aazadan
Ok, that difference does make sense. Making a career out of something that is done outside of the workplace is not the best idea, though I am certain there are people who do so and continue to enjoy it beyond the workplace, though at the same time I understand those people are not at all common. When it comes to hobbies, frankly, what hobbies do I have. The two that I can think of, but have recently neglected (hope to remedy this), can not be set into a career. Yet at the same time, very easily could.

I enjoy reading and writing and a career that focuses on these is journalism. But from what I have read there aren't too many jobs and the only way to obtain a job in that area is through experience and connections. Nor is the pay amazing. And I don't seek a lavish lifestyle. Though to many it may be. A house, big yard, wife and three kids. Of course some car, nothing too grand in way of that. The former four are the most important. And of course to take care of mum.

Now the other thing that I have a great interest in, or perhaps that isn't the way to put it. The other thing I enjoy doing is helping people out with their problems. I don't mean helping someone move. I mean helping out if they feel down. I've had success with this a couple times and it brings me immense pleasure doing so. Of course this means jobs in the psychology field such as, most desirable by me if at all in this field, a guidance counselor in a high school. Being as young as I am, and would be upon having such a job, I believe would be a bonus in terms of connecting with the kids.

But again there are doubts about the studies and actually finding a job and salary, though perhaps I could ask at my old high school when I go visit in a few weeks to see some teachers.

As to your questions, I think they are a great way to decide or focus in on a couple of options, and will help me ultimately decide.

a reply to: onequestion

if you have an inventive, creative mind, maybe learn how to use a 3d printer, and well, come up with some unique products.
anything in the medical field would probably have good prospect, lab tech, radiologist, ect. the trades might be a good option, but got to warn ya, my husband really didn't want to train my sons to be machinists, and well his boss told me straight out that he told his son not to go into the field. I think it's about the same story with welders... our landlord owns a heating and air conditioning business... they get work, but well, seem to have a hard time getting paid. They discouraged their son into going into that fields also. so the same is probably true with the electricians and plumbers. it takes two things to make money, a skill or product someone wants, and people with money that want that skill or product. lack of either can kill a business. and keep in mind, that some areas of the economy, like healthcare is very dependent on gov't money, so if you go into those fields, you will also be very dependent on gov't money most likely. I wouldn't want to be that vulnerable if I could avoid it.

Take a journey through the web, look and see all the creative ways that people have found to earn money. just avoid the cons...there are many. heck, i often wonder if that isn't where many of those who left the workforce disappeared to. when all you see in your future is a blank slate, it gives you plenty of room to explore the many options that present are there for the taking.

a reply to: dawnstar

The trades are a mess right now. I know how to set tile but work in a warehouse because it's he same pay and I just moved across country and don't have enough tools or the connects to sub contract and it only pays 2.50 a square foot to sub here.

I've been thinking about plumbing but oddly enough it's hard to get into an apprenticeship. I'm not even wasting my time with the IBEW.

a reply to: onequestion

I can only speak of the machinists, and to a lesser extent the welders, they have had a rough road since the 80's I think. they'll go fine for awhile, and then get it, and when they get going again, the pay is a few dollars less. My husband was earning more at the beginning of his career than the end....
like I said, I don't think it matters what you do, if the people don't have the money to pay, well, you won't be doing crap. heck, I don't know, become a chauffeur or bodyguard and cater to the rich since the rest of us don't really seem to have that much to spend on any extras.