Donald Trump Accuses Ted Cruz Of Stealing Iowa Caucuses In Twitter Meltdown

originally posted by: Phoenix

originally posted by: DelMarvel
Both Trump and Cruz have proven themselves to be unethical jerks. Either one would be a disaster as president though Cruz would be worse. Trump might be more moderate once elected.

Just curious, what's Trump done in campaign that's unethical?

He's a huge liar even by political standards. It's either intentional or because he has no moral compass and/or no concept of what's true or false which is even worse.

The latest would be the claim he's been making that Cruz was the one who broke their detente and started attacking him first.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Phoenix

I'm not ok with either Trump or Cruz. So speculation aside, I think they are both acting like babies here. Sanders has more of a right to complain than Trump does.

Are you sitting down?

I actually agree Sanders had it outright stolen and the longer term result for him is much more egregious than the Carson/Cruz/Trump situation.

What was it 90 precincts missing? records of count being refused upon Sanders campaign request? That whole thing stinks to high heaven.

I would love for the general to have Sanders and Trump btw.

a reply to: DelMarvel

So.....................

Not one specific thing to back up what you said. Just blanket damnation. Is it just a personal dislike then?

In my criticism of Cruz I at least name exactly what he's lied about. There are more but I was being brief.

I asked a very specific question, "what has Trumps campaign done that's unethical" got zippo as an answer.

originally posted by: Phoenix
Are you sitting down?

I actually agree Sanders had it outright stolen and the longer term result for him is much more egregious than the Carson/Cruz/Trump situation.

What was it 90 precincts missing? records of count being refused upon Sanders campaign request? That whole thing stinks to high heaven.

I would love for the general to have Sanders and Trump btw.

I'm a Sanders supporter but I can't support him whining over voting tricks any more than I can support Trump doing it. As another poster said elsewhere here recently, politics is a blood sport. A President needs to be able to handle an unfair field. Lets take a real world example and look at Obama with the Iran nuclear deal. We had the Republicans going behind his back, we had Israel trying to sabotage it, we had Iran trying to sabotage it, we had Russia trying to weaken our negotiating position. These are things that a President must be able to deal with.

I would prefer to have a President who doesn't act the way Cruz does, but he's absolutely ruthless and so are many other people/nations in the world. If you can't handle something as simple as a political opponent using a dirty trick whether that's from Clinton, Cruz, or someone else... you don't have what it takes to handle the job, no one is playing fair but you still have to beat them, hopefully without resorting to unfair tricks yourself.

a reply to: Aazadan

Sorry, the dirty tricks just are not accepted by me. I think Trump, Carson and Sanders do us all a service by shining daylight upon them - it's not whining to do so it's the right thing to do.

Equating dealing with other countries leaders to acepting domestic election fraud is apples and oranges.

One is an abject lie to voters in order to gain office.

The other is to be expected due cultural and even religious beliefs of foreigners looking to gain advantage.

I prefer a President honest to those who voted them into office over duplicity any day.

The Iran deal is prime example as it was totally misrepresented for domestic consumption by Obama - so bad he had to skip normal treaty process and call it an agreement.

You see... The problem is that PC's whine so damn much that when anyone calls anyone else out for doing the big dirty, people automatically accuse them of 'Whining'. When in reality people have lost touch and don't know the difference between 'whining' and 'calling someone out' for playing dirty particularly within the constructs of Politics.

Like the childrens story. If you Cry Wolf enough Times kinda like the PC crowd, it kinda ruins it for the People who actually call out these liars and bigots for the dirty tricks they play.

Did that makes sense to the Non PC crowd here, YES IT DID.

What about the PC crowd, ok i'll get back to you after you've adjusted your mind control lib devices. 'snicker'.

originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: Aazadan

Sorry, the dirty tricks just are not accepted by me. I think Trump, Carson and Sanders do us all a service by shining daylight upon them - it's not whining to do so it's the right thing to do.

I consider a leader who will do such things to have a major character flaw, enough that I won't vote for them (and that's saying a lot because a politicians character is not part of my criteria when evaluating them, in fact I find strong character to be a detriment in politics if anything, just look at Ron Paul... a good guy who could never accomplish anything because of his character.)

To me it's the response from the victims that's important. Calling for recounts is not the way to do things, votes are dirty and they will always be dirty. The realist in me suspects that there was never an ideal pure voting session ever in the history of the democratic process.

What I want Carson, Trump, Sanders, and even Rubio to do is rather than cry over what has been done, to turn it around and show that those other people cannot be trusted to hold office. Among the winners and losers only some people were playing fair, and that we as voters and Americans should recognize that. Turn those votes lost in Iowa into votes gained in other states.

Then I want them to propose some reforms or security practices that will make their campaigns tougher to screw over in the future.

People like Cruz treat politics as war, to quote him he has read the Art of War and tries to apply it to his job daily. I too have read The Art of War (and everyone should, the full text is legally available online for free through Gutenberg) so I understand where he's coming from. I believe Cruz has it wrong though. Politics is not war, in war the goal is to conquer your enemy, to completely vanquish them, pillage their wealth (or voters), and take full power for yourself. Politics however (atleast for career politicians and nations) are about maintaining a balance of power. You need to be able to call in favors, have good relationships with people, and trust your colleagues.

To give some examples, lets say Sanders and another Senator are in conflict on a bill. Sanders can clearly win the debate and get his bill passed 100% as is. On the other hand he can have some portion changed, let the other Senator save face, and secure for himself some sort of provision on a bill he needs where the roles will be reversed. It is best to work together here. If one is a capable leader, it is far better to be surrounded by a group of capable followers that can challenge you. If one is not a capable leader, it is better to be surrounded by those who are incompetent.

The types of people who make good presidents can do the former, dictators like to do the latter.

People like Cruz attack well, but it's their only weapon. Inevitably they attack too many people at once, can't handle the response, and fall apart. There are 534 members of Congress that want Ted Cruz out of power. It may take time, but it will happen.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: beyondtruth

All's fair in love and war (and politics) right?

That's the attitude that has America in the craphole situation it's in right now.

a reply to: Aazadan

My only issue with your Sanders compromise idea is that's how we get a lot of crap bills passed.

The bill is meant to do A, but they Want B implemented, so you compromise and add a bit of both, and instead get C, which doesn't really fulfill the actual goal of A or B and instead does a detrimental half assed version of both, in the end screwing everyone.

Sure something got done, a heaping pile of poo was created. I'm tired of compromised manure.

a reply to: Puppylove

That's politics. You should never let the perfect be the enemy of the good and the reality of a political system where people with diametrically opposed views need to coexist is that each side has to prioritize what is important and push for improvements to those areas at the expense of others. The challenge is that that usually means both sides increase spending to what they find important, which is where deficit hawks actually play an important role in society.

To quote W (slightly paraphrased) who really was quite insightful on this topic, government is the only place where one side can propose a $15 billion spending bill, the other side can propose a $10 billion spending bill and they compromise on spending $100 billion.

I think Trump should be applauded. After seeing the last debate and watching Cruz squirm and have to publicly apologise it was clear he knew what he (or his team ) had done was totally wrong. I noted that he eevn seemed to lie about the timings of the events though.

The bottom line is that, once again, it was Trump who brought this to a national discussion. Like many other issues, it would have been buried if not for him. Whether he wins the election or not, his directness and courage at raising the issues most Americans are afraid to raise is a credit to him.

Well done The Donald