After Living in Norway, America Feels Backward. Here’s Why.

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: onequestion


are we really here to just work hard for the man or are we meant for something more

I dont think its just about "Working for the man", its about keeping us occupied! For example, in the uk, to be able to get Job seekers allowance you must sit at your computer searching for a job for eight hours each day! And yet every job seeker will tell you they can click the link that shows NEW JOBS! it takes five minutes. I spoke to the peeps in the jobcenter about this and one young guy told me "Its to keep you busy"

People with time on their hands will chatter and start working out whats really going on in the world.

Keep the Proles busy eh? So they don't storm the Bastille?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Really? first trying to play victim and now swearing... Wow... If you actually think that works you have a lot to learn.

A lot of people, including yourself have claimed he is not a "regular socialist because of what he says blah blah blah."

But here is the thing. Socialists always make these kinds of claims and sorry to say but your playing victim, nor your swearing is going to change the fact that those are "only claims and not the truth".

When he, and you say, "ok, yeah finally after all the denying I do admit he is socialist, but he is also a capitalist"... Sorry, under a socialist state capitalism only exists for the state, and not for the people...

I never said he was "a commie", but that's the claim you and his followers have to come up with because you truly have no real counter-argument.

He is a socialist, and "under socialism the people cannot own the means of production..."

He doesn't have to bring full on communism for things to go from bad to worse. Socialism in itself is always bad for the people in the end because it takes from people the ability to own any business that produces and can bring them income. Under socialism the State controls completely the means of production.

Of course in the United States the changes won't be right away, unless there is an economic crash... But eventually, the end result is always the same. The State owning all the means of production, and that's just the start. The second part is that "under socialism the collective is always more important than the individual". That is not bad news only to a percentage of rich people, but it is bad news for everyone. Because in the end a nation consists of millions of individuals.

Under the excuse of "for the good of the collective" the State can get away with taking away the rights of not only individuals, but also political minorities, religious minorities that the State does not want to recognize, etc, etc.

Under the excuse of "for the good of the collective/society we must..." the State will be able "to suppress political opponents and even to label them as threats, even if they are not a threat to anyone." The State can suppress opinions, even when those opinions do not incite any violence. The State can do anything those in power want, and more and this in the end will only be bad for the people.

Of course, at first there will be some "good things" or they will exaggerate anything good that such "massive nationalization will bring." You have to keep the people believing that no matter what rights they have to give up, and no matter what they have to give up that "the end result is good for the collective." If you think there is government propaganda now just wait and see how worse such propaganda will become when socialism completely takes a hold in the U.S.

Obama gave Americans a test of what socialism means when "GM was partially nationalized". Half of it owned by the Treasury department/the State, and the other half by Canada. Which actually in Canada it appears as "a Canadian privately owned business with the Corporation as an indirect parent.

You have got to wonder if this Corporation is the same one mentioned in bills made under the Obama administration.

Anyways, the end result is the same. The State/Corporation/A few elite people owning the means of production and taking away this right from individuals. So, "the State can confiscate private businesses for the good of the collective."

That's part of what socialism truly is, and you trying to be a victim, swearing, or whatever else you may try will not change those facts.

a reply to: Aazadan

Fair points, although I disagree.

"We've simply hit the point where there is nothing else to produce..."

Reminds me of the (debunked) quote from the patent commissioner: "Everything that can be invented already has been invented."

And that underscores the difference of our opinions. I think we have only created more work for ourselves, you think we've created less.

you seem drawn to the illusion that people show up to work as if they're required to. We all choose our own fields, whether actively or passively.

"No, I am not advocating that at all. Having more time for education and the ability to produce things you would enjoy rather than work 8 hours per day for someone else, usually copying rather than innovating would allow us to advance faster."

This seems at odds with your earlier contention that there is nothing left to produce. And it also seems completely at odds with the idea that as a team (working together) we accomplish more than as individuals.

"If you don't believe me, go tell me how many medications the CEO of a drug company has personally developed compared to how many his average employee has developed."

You're confusing knowledge with intelligence. But to further illustrate the absurdity of the point you are trying to make here, find me the top engineer at any company and I'll show you a person in the top 10%. He may not be higher than the CEO in terms of compensation, but he is in the top 10%, which was my contention.

"That means people should prioritize doing what is important to them. "

I agree, making more money isn't priority number one for me. It's up there, but it's not on the top of the list.

"It used to be extremely common, the reason we have fewer today is that our teaching methods have changed."

I disagree, it takes years to pass down the detailed knowledge we have now. The systems have gotten too complex. Which should be expected when people devote their entire lives to one subject instead of many.

"They do, and I'm sure many do and there's nothing wrong with that. I've heard from a lot of Starbucks employees that they love the job but I'm using it as an example of a profession where you will never advance and you will never be paid a good wage."

But no one is forced to be a barista. They choose that based on their priorities. Sure, it doesn't pay extremely well, but making more money isn't the priority of everyone. If they enjoy their job it hardly matters what it pays. If it doesn't pay enough for people to live and enjoy their work, then people will stop being barista's. As the talent pool dries up, the wage will move up. Or (the more likely scenario) their wage will continue to increase about on par with inflation.

The flood of cheap immigrant labor produced similar conditions during the industrial revolution. We choked it off, and wages soared. In the 50's millions of illegal aliens were expelled from the country, more and more prosperity! Mr. Trump understands what the American people have known all along.
a reply to: Sargeras

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: onequestion


are we really here to just work hard for the man or are we meant for something more

I dont think its just about "Working for the man", its about keeping us occupied! For example, in the uk, to be able to get Job seekers allowance you must sit at your computer searching for a job for eight hours each day! And yet every job seeker will tell you they can click the link that shows NEW JOBS! it takes five minutes. I spoke to the peeps in the jobcenter about this and one young guy told me "Its to keep you busy"

People with time on their hands will chatter and start working out whats really going on in the world.

Keep the Proles busy eh? So they don't storm the Bastille?

Yep that's the long game.

Keep 'em occupied with rigged sports,TMZ and twitter.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Swearing?
Where was I swearing?

.....oh, I see. I said "Godammit".
Well, get over it.
If there is a GOD, he SHOULD damn this ridiculous thinking and fear-mongering.

When did I ever say, "Okay, now I admit it?" What are you talking about? I've never denied it! I openly support it!
Now - how am I playing the victim?

originally posted by: stormcell
I lived in Norway for a few years. The government and companies do everything comfortable for the population. Modern apartments (even contemporary style), large homes (needed, because for half the year, it's either dark, or a cloudy electric blue twilight). In Summer, sunlight lasts all night, so people are out at 4am painting the outside of their homes. Roads are wide enough for cars to be parked on either side as well as two lanes of moving traffic. New homes in the UK don't even have front gardens, and the roads are only wide enough for one car to get through at any time.

Wherever businesses and technology parks are located, they are always accessible by public transport, either buses or a Metro line. Housing is expensive (2.5 million Kronor = $250,000 or £250,000), but salaries are high to match as well.
Norway invested all their oil industry profits into a national investment fund. The UK just frittered theirs on tax cuts for the wealthy, and some places, you'll have to walk 1 mile to get to the nearest bus stop and be prepared for service that is 1.5 hours to 2 hours apart. Salaries are identical for every profession at each stage of the career, so you don't have doctors and bankers earning twice as much as engineers or managers.

Oh where to begin.
There are only 3 states (fylke as we call it) that have darkness 24 hours a day the entire winter months (+ Svalbard). Midnattsol (midnight sun) is in the three same states (+ Svalbard) in the summer months. The other 16 states does not have this.

No, the goverment and companies does not do everything comfortable for the citizens. Not sure where you got that idea from.

Actually there are many modern houses and apartments. Nearly all of them is in the biggest towns. There is actually a lack of apartments and houses in most of Norway. And because of that the prices is high. But you can still get a house for about 1.2 Million NOK. It all comes down to how big the house is, and the condition of the house. And 2 other things as location and view.

I haven't seen anyone that early painting their house. But you may have seen one that is out of the ordinary.

Roads are usually not wide enough for this. It usually blocks the streets. Buses and trailers does not have room to maneuver (I think that is spelled right).


Yes, but only in the biggest towns. In my little town, you have to rely on own car, walk or use a bicycle.


Not all salaries are high. In professions with high degree of education, yes you will earn good. Not so much for the uneducated and lower education.


The inhabitants of Norway will never see a krone of those moneys. We have schools that are making the kids sick. The roads are in shambles most of the places. There is a waiting period of up to 5 years to get an operation (no kidding, people have died waiting for an operation). There are no jobs available. I can go on and on.

Actually bankers earn much more money that doctors and engineers and some managers. The most a doctor can make is 1.5 Million NOK. Bankers have salaries up 10 - 15 Million NOK (a few has even more).

Norway is not paradise.


Source: Me, born and raised in Norway. Lived here my entire life.