LaVoy Finicum (BUNDY) was NOT shot with his hands up! He charged at LEO's. (from others arrested)

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Soloprotocol

My first reaction if shot would be to plug the hole.

Unless the first shot killed you.

Good shout..

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
so ... where's the audio? Enquiring minds and all ...

So you think there should be audio from a plane?

Absolutely not. i think there should be audio from dashcam footage and bodycams. Oregon passed a bill last Summer 50-9 regarding LEO's to furbish bodycam footage (with certain provisions).

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
so ... where's the audio? Enquiring minds and all ...

So you think there should be audio from a plane?

No...from dash cam or personal...should be something or maybe FBI dont use Body cams.?

Releasing videos like this just makes it easy for everyone to come to the conclusion he was executed...audio to match video must be available...if they are deliberately hiding it then that in itself tells it's own story...This video tells us nothing.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Releasing videos like this just makes it easy for everyone to come to the conclusion he was executed

Funny how the video does not show that at all!

originally posted by: Phage

To give the law a chance to get closer before he fired?

"Yeah I'll let 'em get in nice and close 'fore I go for my gun, so they's an easier target!" Whatever, dude. That's just silly! Besides, anyone with any tactical training knows that you don't abandon your hard cover in a firefight unless you've got a better spot to move to(and a chance to move). I can't believe Finnicum was that ignorant of tactics. If it was suicide by cop he was hoping for, you would think that he would have come out blasting and tried to take a couple of them with him, if he was really that hellbent. He didn't though. He deinitely wasn't "rushing" anyone, either. Looks to me like he was trying to surrender.

Watched the video, this was another guy getting gunned down by the feds, in my opinion.

Looks to me like he grabs at his side, as though he's been shot, before he makes the movement that looks like he's going for his gun. He's also clearly turning and looking, like he's trying to see who the dude that shot him was, so that he can try to get a shot off at that guy who shot him in the back as he was trying to surrender, as a final act.

Yeah, it clearly looks as though he's been shot before he goes for the draw. Notice the way he's moving: not only is he turning to try and spot the shooter, but the shorter, lurching, somewhat stumbling steps. You can even see the jerk, where his arms suddenly drop, although he clearly hasn't started to reach for his weapon. It's blurry at that spot, but it looks like a jerk to me.

For those who don't know, the human body almost always involuntarily spasms when it is impacted by a high speed projectile like a bullet.

Not only executed, from the looks of it, but shot from behind! That's low...

I guess I should add, though, that once he had almost hit the guy with his truck, whether he tried to miss him or not, that pretty much every LEO SOP considers that to be vehicular assault, which would have then authorized the use of deadly force.

Still low, though. They should have kept the kid gloves on. I think a lot of people are going to be really upset about this. Like up in arms, literally, upset. He said what he did in earlier statements, I know, and so I think he was really asking for it from the LEO's perspective. I think they really screwed up here, though. They should not have allowed themselves to be provoked by his words.

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
but the shorter, lurching, somewhat stumbling steps.

Due to him walking in snow....

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
They should not have allowed themselves to be provoked by his words.

So they should have waited for him to draw his pistol and shoot at the police....

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Releasing videos like this just makes it easy for everyone to come to the conclusion he was executed

Funny how the video does not show that at all!

The video shows him being Shot and killed...if that's not an execution then what is?...Do you see a gun in the video other than those of the LEO/FBI..?

Here's a novel idea...

Perhaps if Mr. Finicum had never left Colorado City, Arizona in the first place, perhaps if he hadn't driven the 'government' truck (which he likely obtained illegally) all the way to Oregon to join up with the likes of Ammond Bundy and his crowd of merry makers, perhaps if Mr. Finicum didn't parade around on national TV, rifle in hand, spouting off about how he'd never go to jail or be taken alive...perhaps he wouldn't be DEAD right now. Perhaps if Mr. Finicum had just stayed home he could have just continued to suck from the government teat thanks to his eleven FOSTER children. Perhaps if Mr. Finicum had just stayed home in his little closed community with all the other whack jobs who allow themselves to be controlled (mind, body and soul) by a convicted and imprisoned sexual predator who denies them even a single grocery store in order to maintain his twisted sense of control...perhaps he wouldn't be DEAD right now.

Instead, Mr. Finicum left his FOSTER children, left his little Orwellian community, took the 'government' truck, and drove to Oregon to join up with the likes of the Bundites. Instead, Mr. Finicum did go on TV and espouse his devine calling, did challenge authorities to kill him and did drive his truck to the meeting that night. Instead, Mr. Finicum did exit his vehicle and did fail to get on his knees as he was instructed to do...and did approach officers (regardless of how).

Perhaps Mr. Finicum could have avoided all of this...Instead, Mr. Finicum wound up DEAD (just as he vowed to do).

Next!

(Double tap)

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
The video shows him being Shot and killed...if that's not an execution then what is?...

A armed nutter refusing to comply with a police direction, and attempting to draw a gun on police.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
The video shows him being Shot and killed...if that's not an execution then what is?...

A armed nutter refusing to comply with a police direction, and attempting to draw a gun on police.

Show me the Gunny..SHOW......ME...... THE..... GUNNY.?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
but the shorter, lurching, somewhat stumbling steps.

Due to him walking in snow....

...and having just been shot! He's walking in the snow pretty well the whole time, with his arms out in front of him, until he appears to have been shot. Then his manner of movement changes, and his arms jerk down, well before he reaches for his gun.

He was not "charging at LEO's", as the OP claims. OP's claim is incorrect.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Depends on what you defintion of charged at.

Running from a vehicle that you wreck trying to avoid a roadblock, almost striking an officer who was trying to get out of the way from what appeared was going to be a ramming of the blocking vehicles.

When he exited the vehilce, he did move towards an officer, the one in the woods that eventually shot him dead.

Then reaching for a 9mm pistol in your jacket..... hmmmm. After saying you wouldn't go down without a fight etc.

Can't you admit his own mouth and actions got him killed. It wasn't the cops on the scene that killed him without provocation.

Now, can we make the arguement the FBI should have gotten involved more openly in the beginning, blocked off the roads leading from the compound, or the OR Gov who called apon Obama and the DOJ to do something faster.

Fact of the matter is, the plan was flawed from the beginning with the taking of the Fed property and having PETE SANTILLI broadcast EVERYTHING.

This case wasn't like the BUNDY/Nevada matter. That was legit-on the BUNDY land. Once they left the Hammons land to take over the Fed property. ERROR. They lost much support from many, both Patriots and civilians.

originally posted by: anon72
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Depends on what you defintion of charged at.

Running from a vehicle that you wreck trying to avoid a roadblock, almost striking an officer who was trying to get out of the way from what appeared was going to be a ramming of the blocking vehicles.

I agree with you there, as I said in my last post. Once he almost struck the officer, whether he was trying to hit him or trying to avoid him, he had committed vehicular assault, giving the green light to the LEO's who subsequently gunned him down. Once the vehicle had stopped, does that then mean that the threat was ended, therefore the need to employ deadly force due to vehicular assault had passed? I don't know what SOP's would dictate in that situation, although I would guess that the vehicular assault threat had ended, therefore that authorization would then no longer be valid.

When he exited the vehilce, he did move towards an officer, the one in the woods that eventually shot him dead.

Yes, but he wasn't charging, and he didn't appear to be close enough to engage in hand to hand combat.

Then reaching for a 9mm pistol in your jacket..... hmmmm. After saying you wouldn't go down without a fight etc.

I say again that it looks to me as though he didn't reach for his weapon until after he jerks and begins lurching and stumbling, as though he's been shot.

Can't you admit his own mouth and actions got him killed. It wasn't the cops on the scene that killed him without provocation.

I completely agree. I don't think it's right, though. I'm well aware that LEO's would have seen his words as a provocation, and that an LEO will shoot you if you make a movement that appears by any stretch of the imagination that you might be reaching for a weapon. I'm not saying that they needed to stretch their imaginations, I'm saying they would usually shoot you if they even think you might be reaching for a weapon. As I said in an earlier post, I think they should have kept the kid gloves on a little longer, that more effort should have been made to prevent loss of life. You know as well as I that this dead horse will be beaten to a pulp by the agitators. I get it though. I'm sure this was a stressful situation for everyone involved. Adrenaline was flowing, and he had made plenty of provocative statements, as I understand it. I just think they screwed up, they were too quick to drop the hammer and grant his wish.

Now, can we make the arguement the FBI should have gotten involved more openly in the beginning, blocked off the roads leading from the compound, or the OR Gov who called apon Obama and the DOJ to do something faster.

Fact of the matter is, the plan was flawed from the beginning with the taking of the Fed property and having PETE SANTILLI broadcast EVERYTHING.

Flawed if their plan really was to stay there for years and have a million people come out of the woodworks: mining, ranching, and homesteading to their hearts' contents. If the plan was to draw attention to the plight of the Hammonds and get marched off to a cell for what Mr. Bundy considered to be a noble cause, well then I'd say he was reasonably successful. Mr Finicum's martyrdom is just a little extra bloody icing on the cake, really, and may serve to cast the authorities in a more negative light.

This case wasn't like the BUNDY/Nevada matter. That was legit-on the BUNDY land. Once they left the Hammons land to take over the Fed property. ERROR. They lost much support from many, both Patriots and civilians.

A nobler aim would have been to support the Hammond wives during the period of their husbands' incarcerations. However, without drawing attention to the issue, the BLM's corruption would have been allowed to continue unabated, and likely would have negated any community support the Hammond wives would have received. As it has played out, there will now likely be more attention payed to this issue by the average American.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie
Thank you for you in-site. You put a lot into that response. Much appreciated.

This matter is not going to go away easily for the Feds/LEO, however, the more info/videos they release (body cams, dash board etc-up close-WITH sound).

On that note, this was published by an OR paper. Apparently someone drove upon the incident just after the shooting-with sound.

Cell phone video shows moments after shooting of refuge occupier
www.kptv.com...