Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

Perhaps its as simple by naming something, we feel more empowered within as we no longer face an 'unknown'

When you are in a different place than usual and trying to fall asleep the normal sounds of that building settling down for the night and the surrounding fauna often keep you awake (well they do me anyway if I let them ) but typically I have found once you 'name' the noise you can drift off peacefully (i would assume this comes from our gatherer/hunter days when a noise could have been a predator coming to eat you)
ie the tapping at the window is actually the tree/bush just outside and once you have identified its that and 'named it' you no longer fear it.

Instant like/love/hate - the theme of so many stories/music through time.
Wonder how much is previous meetings (past life), a reaction at quantum/spiritual level or just picking up on non vocal communication or it just occurred to me that perhaps we are given these 'feelings' from whom/wherever.

a reply to: Baddogma

I was tired. Could have worded that better probably.
I am not easy to upset, but thanks for your kind words.

a reply to: Serdgiam

I am a total maths and physics idiot, but i have deep love for all the guys and gals batteling the numbers and letters and strange symbols for me.
What I was saying with my easy equation is you can define it however you want and if you'd say something like x= the integral of all quantum possibilities and y= the unification of all mechanical laws, you'd end up with z= a very wide range. But maybe there is some cosmic constant to be found.Like i said not exactly my area.
Please share if you want to.
I am always open to learn something new.

a reply to: cooperton

No we are not arguing, yet. It is just that all evidence I found is pointing towards: there is no god. Not in the way that word is usually used. No creator and no surpreme being that is looking out for you.
But bellieve what you want, that's why I don't want to argue with you.

a reply to: johnb

I think that I agree with that and following on from your point, we often missname things and then go on to add lots of bells and whistles which changes the meaning.

Take Baddog's red peppers. That stuff happens all the time and it's where the notion of 'brownies' (brunaidh) came from - I'm sure you'll have a southern equivalent. You need stuff fixed or replaced - brownies will do it if you ask them. Dobbie from Harry Potter is the same sort of thing.

What if, in let's say 50 years, quantum physics (of which I know nothing) reveals that sometimes objects can lose their material form for periods of time due to something or other. Then we laugh at all the stupid people who called this phenomenon 'brownies' and we revere those that discovered Temporal Object Displacement. Or whatever. TOD phenomena is little more than an inconvenience and we think nothing else of it. We stop leaving out honey cakes to appease it, or talking to it or telling it to replace the missing object.

With a new name, all is well but the phenomena remains the same. Packets of red peppers still go missing. We give it a more comfortable name, and it loses its 'fear factor'. You could argue that it's just because we understand what's going on better, but equally so it is because it has a 'safer' name.

a reply to: beansidhe

"All spirits are pure" until a human agitates or corrupts them, is a good rule of thumb.

I wonder if there is specific lore in your tradition akin to that.

I'd say, that humans have royally agitated / corrupted 'spirits' what with the wholesale
dumbification of the species (a liberal arts education, which included art, history, and the
study of beauty used to be the NORM) and the wholesale destruction of the environment
can't be 'helping' one would think.

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

A bit more on 'true names'.

I believe that my position is actually fully supported in Fae lore. For example, it is considered very rude, ignorant and dangerous to ask a Fae their name or to call them a Fae or other term.

You can say this is due to 'true names having power' and that is correct so far as it goes...but not in the way one might think.

All liminal creatures (Fae, 'spirits', 'tricksters' and shaman by the way) get very cranky about being named *anything* as that 'attacks their liminal state'.

Also, in your lore I believe is the fact that the true form of 'beautiful faries' is ugly twisted little critters.

Now you could say that you could ' have power over Fae' if you knew the 'true name' of the ugly form.

But that 'ugly form' isn't their true name either.

You could say you knew the 'true name' of their liminal state....but that 'true name' very nearly equals the 'true name of god'.

God was the first liminal you see.

Swmbo is also extremely touchy about names.

In short, as one liminal creature speaking on the behalf of other liminal creatures:

Naming feels like an attack...and it spoils all the fun of being liminal.

Now it's fine to use 'pet names' such as Melissa....as that does not attempt to crush the liminal state....
And it allows her to show off....peacock that she is.

Just wanted to finish this particular story line. Not doing so is like dropping rice grains at the feet of an eastern vampire.

Things are neither simple nor hard....things take what they take....not more...not less.

Kev

a reply to: Reverbs

From all the way back on page one, a story a folklorist told me about water popped into my head... I like Reverbs explanation about the fields, but this other, more 'poetic' metaphorical explanation insinuated itself into me, too...

they told me that it was simple... water had many forms, but was eternal, like consciousness, and was a "hint" from the universe about our eternal, but many masked, natures.

The fields/properties makes sense too! Heh...

a reply to: threeeyesopen

What I want to get to the root of is, what do we all have in common

D-M-T i beleive, Humans ,plants and all other living things

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Wanted to say that was beautifully expressed and that I agree at a basic level.

For myself, I always felt a twinge when people used my name... can't say why, exactly, but that solidification where I knew I wasn't anything solid, fits.

We're all changing ALL the time.. .and we do have core inclinations, but boy, is it hard to pin down.

My favorite, most important word is "liminal."

a reply to: lSkrewloosel

True that... and maybe some folks are more predisposed by dna to be more tuned to the unseen, too... I doubt there's one answer, but... heh, there might be!

Welcome (as I think this is your first foray into this leaf strewn pool)

Anybody got any idea as to what ghosts are? Do they have different categories and are they manifestations caused by different circumstances or phenomena?

I've got half a lifetime of ghost experiences and I'm interested in understanding the phenomena better. Any good places to start researching? What do different cultures think they are or how they explain them?

I feel that once exposed to that sorta phenomena your on a path for life to always be sensitive to it and see it easier than those who haven't. Or just recognize the vibes that that phenomena manifests.

For me I can tell if I'm in a place where somebody has died and has become haunted. Just a familiar sensation that I recognize or associate with my childhood home that also had a lot of hauntings.

Anybody, experience something similar and have any theories as to whats going on in regards?

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Rethaya
Awww.. .don't lurk so much!

It's just better if I sit back and absorb what comes, at times. That way, there's no chance of anyone mistaking my anecdotal strangeness as some kind of wisdom or absolute truth, lol.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Ghosts are interesting. I haven't really sat down and thought long and hard about it.

I think they could be the sentient artifacts left over once the body dies, and the consciousness hasn't made its way back to the source to be recycled. They would be, in essence, "stuck" between this plane and others.

From MY experience -- it's far easier for us to see them and interact with them than it is for them to push through into our denser reality. People can have heightened awareness, "second sight" and detect energies that are just outside of our reality/plane.

I get the impression that where we are is "denser" (like being under water) -- and for any kind of apparition or ghost to manifest visibly or touch/interact with anything, it takes a massive effort. Hence why I'm not really scared of them. It's easier for me in my experience to detect and cause them discomfort/bother than it is for them to bother me.

I actually feel bad because I've scared off something I'm pretty sure wasn't malevolent once. I didn't realize it until I was done psychically "shouting at it".

I'd be cool with a ghost side kick. He/she could fly through walls and see/hear things I couldn't. I'm not sure what the ghost would get out of it, as ghosts don't use money or need food or a place to sleep. Maybe I could help it carry out some items it never got to finish? That might make for a good story...a dude and his ghost side kick. The ghost helping the guy in day-to-day life, and the guy checking off items the ghost needs done before he can pass on...and some of them might be really crazy/dangerous/weird.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

My own ghosty thoughts: There are oodles of decent books ... a few that might even be accurate as to specifics, too...

one obscure work written by two parapsychologists from Tucson, AZ, in the 90's, was a huge stand out as far as real scientific thought and clear, non deluded thinking and cases... and if I can dig it out, I'll tell what the title is... but my own feelings are that ghosts are either fragments of the dead person (Egyptian occult thought had humans made of three or so parts.. .sorta soul, consciousness and spirit, whatever that means, or we have the shamanic parasites along with the multi faceted human take, too, and not just our resident shaman, but others) or the whole "soul" stuck here after their death.

Trauma or unease of some flavor seems the common factor that holds folks to this world after their grosser biology stops... which is why suicide is such a biggy.

My old gf could sense them, too, and taught me how to notice their specific (faint for me, usually) mental "flavor" and I've since felt them all over the friggen place.. .not everywhere, mind you, but far more frequently than I once thought.

I've tried to engage them in an "imaginary" dialogue to move them on, as being stuck here seems terrible.. .and in a couple instances, that dialogue seemed to end the "haunting" ... but who knows... hard to prove any of it.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

There are ghosts and then there are other things, people call spirit.
Sometimes they don't know they are dead, or they may just be an imprint on the environment. Trauma in death can cause that imprint to occur, and also depending on the type of mineral in the rock below the house can keep an imprint going.

There is no oooggie boogie for me when it comes to them I have seen, smelt or heard them at different times throughout my life.

Loved ones can visit you, but they exist elsewhere, and aren't attached to an earthly place.

a reply to: zazzafrazz
Ah yes, the intelligent and recording types of hauntings.

It's hard to distinguish what type is what, but if it looks at you or makes a noise in reaction to a situation, then intelligent... and how intelligent is another sub category.

I've gotten "intelligent" responses, but whether due to the limitations of contact, rules over there about spoiling the game, or just that whatever is still communicating is just a shade or aspect of the whole former human, I've never gotten intelligent responses that seemed I was talking to a whole person or really answered any BIG questions.

However, others I trust are adamant they've spoken to ghosts who were "all there."

a reply to: Baddogma

That's my favorite word too.

There Is nothing easier than to be liminal, once you get there, as there is no one to be, nothing to do, and even death is a funny joke.

But you can't get there with simplicity... Well let me clarify that;

Nobody....and I mean nobody....except a very few naturals who are born that way....let themselves relax into it.

The truth is that EVERYONE'S feelings are butt hurt and insist on the Universe jumping through hoops for them.

For example some people expect God to visit them...or a 'wise master' (even a disreputable shaman might do in a pinch)' before they start the long effort to 'relax' into death.

Liminality is death while yet living. Its very scary.

But the problem is that people want the liminal to only spoon feed them per their exact wishes, prejudices and requirements.....they are too
Afraid to let go.

So lets say that a person decided to just 'let go'. Well cool...
But they will almost certainly go insane.....some stay insane....and some die.

The natural says "you are making it unnecessarily hard" ---- but not everyone is a spiritual Tiger Woods.

And even if they were....the Naturals tend to be almost useless to anyone except themselves....they aren't willing to learn 10 different ways to ease someone into helping ease someone into nothingeverything.

My second teacher was one of the most annoying Naturals in the world....he could out liminal Buddha....but couldn't teach a grease fire to come in out of the rain.

To even get an email from the man gives a massive contact high.

Well gotta run.

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

When it's a haunting, I agree with your premise of a they maybe like a shade /part of a human. You can get intelligent responses but they are not bound by time / gravity as we experience so the connection doesn't work properly, a bit like trying to communicate between an analogue and digital phone, you aren't communicating with compatible means.

Not everyone becomes a ghost. in fact most don't.

I'd like to add that sometimes I get the impression that intense psychic or mental energy can "stain" a spot, leaving some kind of residual energy behind on the fabric of our reality.

Gettysburg was like that. I could almost feel a choking sensation rising up from the ground there.

Rome's Colosseum? Not so much. It was strangely devoid of ANY vibes or energy. Odd considering how many deaths occurred there. It was just cold, lifeless stone that had no energy about it. The only vibes I got were from the throngs of tourists milling about.

Contrast that with "El Castillo" or the prominent Mayan pyramid at Chitzen Itza -- there was a palatable "electric" buzzing energy radiating from the site, most prominent around the pyramid itself.

Something very odd happened with the Maya, and their energy is very foreign compared to anything Western people are accustomed to. They were a very, very different people -- more different than we realize.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Gettysburg is where we should send anyone who doesn't believe ghosts exist.

Rome... I think places that have some much energy coursing through it over millennia may dissipate the attached 'shades'.

I do ask the question, why are prisons so haunted? If you are dead, why stay in such a hell, I think the answer lies somewhere in the premise that heaven and hell are of your own making and don't exist outside of your own personal experience.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I disagree, everyone has the capacity to be a "spiritual Tiger Woods".

Just like in a formal classroom setting, different people have different learning styles. Some people are visual, others auditory and some are hands-on. People can learn the same thing using a wide variety of styles that suit them.

If trying one technique or approach doesn't seem to yield tangible results, then obviously the mode or method needs to be altered and adjusted.

One thing I've found is that a lot of people externalize, and focus their attention outward. It seems that people pay more attention to other folks than themselves.

When we do this, we neglect ourselves. We fail to learn about how we learn. We watch how other people learn and assume that is how we must also learn. Thus, when we try to duplicate what someone else has done, we become frustrated when we do not succeed. We blame ourselves, others, and begin to allow doubt to creep in to our minds.

I am of the belief that so-called "naturals" are simply utilizing techniques that are better suited to their learning style and their abilities. I would further state that these "naturals" aren't even aware that it is because of this fact they are successful.

When you are not making progress, it may not be that you "lack" anything (as we all came into the world with the "fully loaded package") it may simply be one can't find their owner's manual