Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

Baddogma, sir, I want to both thank and curse you for this latest discussion you've started here. Much like that astr@ thread you created, where I first discovered you and your brilliant band of philosophers, this current brainstorming session had me so captivated, I stayed up all night reading and skipped work today, re-reading, pondering, and anxiously awaiting the next post. I'm afraid I'm burrowed quite deep in the rabbit hole and my gf is becoming increasingly concerned about the state of my mental health. I felt moved enough to join ATS today, after years of lurking, simply to tell all of you super interesting and intelligent folks thank you for sharing and helping to open up this simple, narrow mind of mine. As this thread progresses, I hope I can get over the intimidation of conversing with intellects far superior to mine, as I'd love to pick a few brains. Sorry to derail this awesome thread, please carry on. Thanks!

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

yes many thoughts, had to ponder a bit how to respond as english is not my first language and it is a subject of great interest for me and I would like to type this in a way I don't sound arrogant or any other label. This is just my opinion and it will probably change with more learning...it is a developing process after all....

...If one want to realize YOGA. which means union as many surely know. And in yoga and in any other true spiritual path or text there is one common thing. That is union with the divine. So what does that mean?

It means the end result is something which you cannot know of with your senses or intellect as it is a state of being. This state is described as something which cannot be described (neti neti for instance...). There are many other concepts such as turiya, sat chit ananda, enlightenment, ...

What does that mean?
if there is no place for any senses and intellect. How can I experiance this? Well what is I, I that thinks, feels,.. ?
hahah there is not a pleasant answer and this realization may...as you have already stated so... may hit hard! well for some it is and for some it is not. It all depends on the attachment we give to ego and body. This is your experiance which you are describing and it not means that others sentient beings will have the same. We all have different souls after all.

As I read your other posts this seems, where you are at? you said something about dying after all. I take it you have dissolved your ego and sense of self completely or you are almost there. Kundalini rising is just a process which unfolds when you do that, as I take it from experience. No good or bad in it. Just another distraction!

Cool. That is great achievement! it is not pretty as you said, well for some it is! For me, I have same experiences some good some bad if I must put it this way. but have not totally managed this part yet, as I am not enough clean. My mind still has some attachments which needs to be worked out. and no rush it will be worked out, I just have to find the right motivation and set my mind right with antidotes in my opinion.

Google antidotes and tibetan buddhism for more info. Basically mind tricks which help you to cleanse ego, stay motivated, confident, pure, etc...

And also the way to to that for me is bodhichitta. This term comes from buddhism and its real meaning is very beautiful! For anyone who wants real progress should have something of that nature for base ground to reach self realization.

This is the key! ... in my opinion. But there are many paths, each souls must find his own way through numerous incarnations. Everything is a process of learning. Of experiencing until a thirst for end of experiance arises. End of thinking, end of me, end of the souls, many different gods and every other illusion.

so friend, all this is just a process. everything is a process. But "one thing/divine" is persistent throughout every process there is and complete union with it is non describable! As long as we are trying to describe it we fail on all accounts!

But I feel with great certainty that such state of being, which is really a state which cannot be describable at all and nothing can be attached to it is completely free of any burden of pain or happiness, of sorrow and even death and life or any other separation possible and in existence or non existence!

Where is than place for soul, for god, for I?

Just in our waking or dreaming minds.

And also, when that happens this is just a start of our true being. It is not the end as some may conclude... Maybe the end of illusion and start of ...
Most wonderful, blissful, etc etc...words cannot come close to it. The same goes for intellect, senses...not even close!

find out who you are!

who am I ?

: )

many paths...all leads to one ... the source. We can learn and use anything. No limits. No right or wrong. good or bad...at the end all is just a learning mechanism for the SELF!

Only experiance and learning.

But all this talking can be stopped and I could just say it in indian terms which you seem most familiar with and say:
- first experiance samadhi.
- than experiance samadhi permanently

that's all.

But to achieve permanent samadhi I learned that there is a process. Process or learning and cultivating bodhichitta.

Thoughts and ALL opinions are welcomed and encouraged, as I said, this is only my opinion. You can take it as an insane man ramblings : )
Also I apologize if this is maybe offtopic. It is may take on enlightenment. And how universe is build and what it is all about and what are ghost, illusions, demons, gods, heavens and hell.... This post implicates many things.... ALL things haha ... a pun : )

This is an absolutely fascinating thread! I'm very new, only been a registered member for a few days, and I have fallen down the rabbit hole several times on threads that make me truly think.

I don't have a particular theory or hypothesis on any certain subject, I'm interested in so many things and spend hours reading, researching and exploring different subjects. I believe you are never to old, or young to open new horizans.

I have had several odd and peculiar experiences in my life. One being I can't walk or drive under night security lights. They go out every time. Not just dimming but completely out. Any watch in wear drains of battery in hours, even with a brand new battery.

My kids swear that their Grandma comes to sing them to sleep some nights. Shes been dead since 2003. They were born in 2008. Without getting into to much detail, they described her perfectly, even though they have never seen a picture (house fire when they were nine months old, lost everything). And they call her Granny, which is what all her grandchildren called her.


I dream things that come true, but only I'm not trying to. Nightmares herald bad things happening if I have them three nights in a row.

a reply to: Baddogma

Hi Dog,now that i have time to properly reply,i can elaborate a bit,about more weirdness. Around the time i got those symbols,i was Very close to Earth,meaning i spent the majority of my time in my jungle garden,and at night,under the stars and sky,being just open to nature and the universe/omniverse. Being open to sights and sounds,building a Relationship with Earth and sky.

So in my quest to build my very own unique relationship with Earth,i wished to do a simple and heartfelt little ritual where i shed some of my own lifeblood into Earth,as a gift of love and solidarity. I know i must sound very stupid but to me it felt Right-by that i mean,mind you,right for Me,personally.

And i Tried,i bought a packet of razor blades,those that you insert into the razor,Wilkonson brand,if i recall correctly. But i could'nt bleed. I cut my hand,the part at the bottom of the hand,where it goes into the wrist,i cut my fingers too,with the razor. No blood came. I cut again,deeper,no blood would come. I cut again,deeper,i could Feel the skin being parted and sliced,a very icky feel,but no blood would come. Along the lines of the slices,where i opened the flesh,there would be a red tinge along the line of the slice,but my hands seemed to Refuse to bleed. To yield actual drops of blood. Maybe if i hacked my hands down to the bone,it may have produced some blood,but i am an artist and a mother having to do numerous household chores,so i wasn't going to shred my hands.

Seriously though,how do you cut your hand open with a straight razorblade-and no blood is forthcoming????

And then there was the heat/burn issue. One day around this time,i removed a ovenpan from the oven,and started smelling something funny,along with an odd sensation on one of my fingers.

I put the ovenpan on top of the stove,and checked+to my horror saw that my one fingertip must have touched the glass ovenpan,and was burnt to what looked like white crisp. I braced myself for monstrous pain as i rushed to the cold tap. No pain came. But i Knew,according to the laws of nature,if you burn so badly that your skin turns to white crisp and Smells disgusting of burnt flesh,monstrous pain Will come,its unavoidable. I ran the cold water over my hand,and i got the idea in my head at that moment,to gently massage the white burned crisp piece of skin.

I did so-and still no pain,and then suddenly the burnt crisp piece of skin was gone,and my finger skin was back to it's normal state,unharmed,undamaged and whole and well.And not one iota of pain.

I still don't know what to make of that.

a reply to: Twinsmom1981

Hii Twinsmom and welcome! i believe the term for that is Sliders,where lights go out when you pass them.Anyway,enjoy this thread,good to meet you.

a reply to: Tuomptonite

I am humbled... and mildly concerned being a catalyst for unemployment, bachelorhood. But I get it... I still get hooked into threads here that envelope me for weeks and stagger me. How is it that there are folks of such caliber posting on a "conspiracy" site...? Heh.

I admit I'm not really so accomplished or unique in my views, but am simply a "nice guy" who can gather interesting folks around... it's always been so for me, as a fool in the occult traditional sense. So I'm right there with yah... in awe that discussions this cool exist.

So welcome and a deep "thanks" to every single poster, reader and those yet to be both... pretty cool. Pretty cool.

eta: and oh, yeah.. .I certainly "get" the intimidation factor, me too, but remember, strip away all the ego games and neurosis, take away the human kerfluffle and there's nothing really to say/know.. .there's just being and sometimes not being, but down here in humanville, we have to pass the time somehow and everyone has a unique view that even the know-it-alls (in the literal sense, too) find interesting... 'cause we're all here and thus something thinks it's a good idea... right? So post away!

a reply to: UniFinity

Welcome, UniFinity... nice name!

I will be riveted if you and kpb deconstruct Eastern occult systems... heh... heck, I will be riveted if you guys discuss your lunches. Have a comfy seat and some silly, poisonous drink with an umbrella... 'cause your ego is dead, long live your liver!

a reply to: Raxoxane

No blood? No burns? You, obviously, don't exist outside of this board and are in a virtual reality simulation, Rax... as we all are in some respect, heh.

Why can this happen? Why is the body so "malleable" by the consciousness sometimes but not others?

This line of thought reminds me, again, of my dad... as he is a source for pretty much all of me, it ain't surprising.

He had soothed my "upset tummy" (usually brought on by the ludicrous, cruel actions of humans) throughout my childhood by placing a hand on it and gently rubbing and telling me I was "making the hurt go away" and by gosh, it DID. Self hypnosis (with help, at first, heh) DOES work. He never got ill and had a superb, disciplined mind he simply wouldn't let screw up his physicality... until his heart went kaput, that is.

I asked him why he couldn't will his heart attack away... and he replied "this time is different." Why?

Why can we work miracles on occasion and not others.. .where's the cut off of possible and "fate?"

Anyway, fascinating and amazing... a deep thanks.

I am also reminded of the main theme of this very general thread and that there are silent folks out there thinking, "Is this for real? These guys are deluded ninnies... B.S.!!"

While agreeing (with myself) that I'm a ninny, I just want to stress that I try, lordy I try, to be as close to the truth as my flawed sense apparatus and damaged nervous system can be. I'm careful not to stretch facts for amusement and ask that others do the same, here, to learn. So far, I feel that is exactly what is going on with everyone else, too.

If you've never experienced anything like what's being discussed, like me most of the time, then I can understand the dismissal, ridicule and wavering that happens when one's long time beliefs get cracks in their foundation.

So, to those "narrow" minds who found their way here and are considering these things as facts, maybe for the first time, all I can say is "we're not delusional in the classic sense and though crazy and lacking in proper sense apparatus just like you, these things discussed really, truly happened to us.

I keep forgetting that everyone else hasn't had the unseen press their face in this mystical mess!

a reply to: Baddogma

My nickname is nini: You were calling, master?
Sorry I have no clue wht it means in AE, or BE...
But besides that, well said. The very thin line between edge and ledge.

a reply to: Baddogma

You can't make some of this stuff up, lol...

Some of us accept that there is weirdness because we've experienced it personally. I always say, "If you can't relate...don't debate!"
It's kinda like the reality that I have twins... *waves up at Twinsmom1981* Anyone who hasn't had that experience has no idea what it's like, and I don't care what they think it "should be like".

I find all these separate stories fascinating and have no reason to think anyone is lying. There is nobody in my real life to discuss these things with, and most already think I'm odd.

a reply to: jacygirl

There is nobody in my real life to discuss these things with, and most already think I'm odd

You are certainly not the only one in that exact scenario, sweety-kins (and gotta admit, whenever I see a pink avatar with some hottie, I immediately think "fat guy in tighty whities" but will withhold my own feelings of b.s., heh, and keep thinking of you as a chick with real dragonblood).

a reply to: Peeple
And that thin line is easy to trip over and fall down the slippery slope into complete madness! Mutating belief systems are fragile things... but fragile things may be changed without shattering as long as they are manipulated carefully... and "master?" (get's out his dusty whip and handcuffs...) Reeeaaallly??!

a reply to: Baddogma

hahah



thanks for nice welcome.

... yes it maybe feels harsh to say something like that about ego. It is our whole image from current life experiences after all. And as such it is exactly what you need at the moment. We are all where we need to be right this moment. If we say, that karma is a real force which controls everything behind the curtain. That means ego is a product of karma and that is just a natural result of past actions. So when you say ego is dead, that just means that karma has brought an individual soul to such possibility, that it can learn this experiance if it has such desire.

But who would want that desire? It is a bit insane, when you think about it, isn't it? : )

But that is just the problem. Thinking. But that is only a problem when you really decide to renounce (in the mind, not go into a cave : ) ) all external word and decide to live a life according to a few strict principles to cultivate right actions, speech and thoughts.

Thoughts are of no problem. The problem is attachment to them, that is what is meant as ego.

Just to clear some issues which may bring statements such as death of ego. Well at least this is how I see it at my current understanding : )

a reply to: Baddogma

*clicks handcuffs on Baddog* *snaps whip*

Who you calling a fat guy in tightie whities??

Dragon's blood no, but I did walk naked into the fire and emerge covered in ferrets. (but that's another story, hehe)

a reply to: UniFinity

And that sorta highlights a general problem with concepts like "enlightenment" and teaching occult systems in general... once one really learns and can master such things, the concurrent realizations that "nothing matters (while everything matters concurrently)" and "my search for personal power and truth was horrifyingly shallow and very, very funny" and so even discussing it loses all allure...

but we are still human and still need a group hug to keep our ape-ish portions "happy" so ... what ya gonna do but talk about the incomprehensible and tell some jokes?

eta: OR snap on some handcuffs and whip the nubile vixen 'cause it holds some cosmic truths while being really, really silly... just like reality in the macro view.

a reply to: Baddogma




And woah: a new belief system? We would first have to redefine what we were calling god so far,write apology letters to all the demons and satan, next introduce the concept of self responsibility and then do some more research on all the freaky kinky things our souls do when we surpress them too long...

a reply to: UniFinity

Karma is a lie, just look at the social system it comes from. It is like the promise of heaven something to keep the masses quiet.

a reply to: Baddogma

once one really learns and can master such things, the concurrent realizations that "nothing matters" and "my search for personal power and truth was horrifyingly shallow and very, very funny"

But everything matters, nothing is inconsequential and your personal search for personal power and truth, for however long it lasted, moved us all some increment further towards escaping the loop.

"When the need is large, it is used largely. When the need is small, it is used in a small way. Thus no creature ever comes short of its own completeness. Wherever it stands it does not fail to cover the ground.”


-Dogen

a reply to: Bybyots

Glad you poked your virtual head out.. .hiya ByBy.

So true, so silly, so true...

a reply to: UniFinity

Also wanted to mention my own understanding of Eastern systems is... fairly shallow, but whenever I've done the deep inner journeys and come to some realizations, I find that the Buddhists were there first, planted a flag and named the concept eons ago.

So while I'm a stubborn non-joiner of any "team," my personal truth is closer to Buddhist (as I partially understand it) than anything else I'm aware of... though Gnostic/mystical Christianity has coolness and some broad 'maybe-truths,' for me, too.