Synchronicity; Apophenia and the 11:11 fallacy

i dont understand why some people are so hell bent in spreading negatively to the world?

it leads me to believe that these individuals are just out to cause destruction to everything around them and convert everyone to a pattern of negative thinking 24/7.

but why? what is the reason for this if any at all?

btw. if everyone thought the same as you did then do you think you would be happy or would you strive to find something else to complain about?

something tells me its the latter option.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
i dont understand why some people are so hell bent in spreading negatively to the world?

it leads me to believe that these individuals are just out to cause destruction to everything around them and convert everyone to a pattern of negative thinking 24/7.

but why? what is the reason for this if any at all?

I'm not spreading negativity, I'm trying to spread logical rationality. The defensiveness of your comments shows how unstable your convictions are if you feel so threatened by critical thought.

The only thing I am interested in the destruction of is harmful irrational logic and unwarranted reliance on superstition and flat out fallacies.

The reason for this is to demonstrate that people who subscribe to this kind of thinking are not being critical or rational. The often evident superiority complex of these individuals and blatant disregard for actual reality is harmful to both the advancement and understanding of real science and an honest understand of our place in the universe.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
btw. if everyone thought the same as you did then do you think you would be happy or would you strive to find something else to complain about?

something tells me its the latter option.

I am not really complaining about anything, I'm simply trying to demonstrate in as unbiased and rational way as I can that the logic behind such superstitions is faulty.

If everyone was rational, then yes, I do believe they would be happier. Logical fallacies breed misconceptions and lead to many kinds of harmful woo and crankery.

I replied to the post about 11:11 (that you seem to be referring) with the comment that it was inspiring. And it was...but that was actually not a reference to 11:11. It was about paying attention to synchronicity in life.

I am going to post about two sycronicities I have had...one probably psychological but then there are still questions.

In 2002, I began waking in the am with itching teary eyes, seems the cat, who hated me, liked to sleep on my pillow and i developed an allergy...natural explanation. A month or so later I had my eyes checked for new glasses. Had a really big change. Ordered the glasses with a new type lens. Got them back and couldn't see out of them. Went back to eye doc and he couldn't believe I was the same person..checked name and address. Got another prescription. (I recalled later I had used and oily eye makeup remover prior to 1st dr. visit another natural explanation). Got new glasses with regular lens. They seemed to work so kept them. Within a week I lost the glasses. Went back to old glasses.

About a week to 10 days later I was waiting in line at home depot and saw a pregnant woman in front of me. It triggered the memory of a dream the night before. I was pregnant tho I didn't look pregnant (and it was impossible) and knew the baby would be born premature and/or die (whole nother story) and I knew what it meant. I went to the car with purchases then to the next stop. Looked of my glasses and couldn't find them. Checked the bags, seats and under the seats thoroughly. Nothing.

Went back home and wrote my husband a letter explaining I would be leaving (the knowing in the above dream). It took 11 days (no reference to 11:11) and I felt a peace I had only felt once before in my life (wreck when I thought I would die). On the day I moved, the last haul of the day I was getting the last items out of the car and when I had them in my hands I looked down and found those old glasses I lost when I recalled the dream and told my husband I would be leaving.

A year later to the day (first Friday in July) I lost those glasses permanently. A few years later I realized a July connection to my buying glasses and sure enough I had either had my eyes checked or had the prescription filled the first friday of July for 3 of the last 4 years (1 yr I didn't get a refill) and least anyone say insurance allowed it...I didn't have insurance and once I realized it I made a conscious decision to not have eyes check any where near July.

I will accept a logical explanation.

At the same time, if you are not paying close attention to what is going on in you life, I don't believe anyone can make the connection. And they are particular to the observer, not necessarily in a conscious way. The above took me a while to understand...mostly after the fact.

As someone said, (to paraphrase) there is more going on under the sun Horatio....poor paraphrase.

I will not post the other incident because of the length....unless someone asks

To those who read it all...thanks

i fail to see how any personal thoughts on metaphysics that resonate with the individual are harmful to anyone but the personal thinking them.

this is not a religon. no one is being harmed.

science is just science. it is helpful but also flawed in many ways.

no one is inhibiting scientific research or the fact that the world is flat...oops. i meant round.

you should get over yourself and stop trying to police how others think.

you are fighting a losing battle.

no one is forcing you to accept any ideas that you do not want to.

thats the beauty of life you get to pick and choose what you subscribe to.

originally posted by: spygeek
a reply to: Klassified

Again, this topic is not concerned with philosophy, and to claim beliefs based on logical fallacies have merit because "we don't know everything" is akin to making an appeal to ignorance, and borders on special pleading.

Religion takes quite a beating on ATS for doing exactly what you just did in your OP. Talking in absolutes. Now before you go getting your panties in a knot because I just compared religion and psychology/science, a guy as smart as you must know that our sciences, especially the psychological branch are indeed ignorant of a great many things. That's why our sciences change every day. And considering the fact that psychology came out of philosophy, I think it applies here.

My point simply being, we can't be so rigid and legalistic that we start sounding and acting just like the extreme religious fundamentalism we all love to hate. I've been known to say I know for a fact there is no god. And I hold to that. But as an atheist, I can never say for certain, that I know there isn't an entity out there that is so far beyond my little brains comprehension, that most would probably deify it. Because there just might be...

And there just might be a little something to synchronicity, even if I find myself mostly in agreement with your OP.

a reply to: dreamlotus1111


When those personal thoughts on metaphysics spawn pseudosciences that garner a lot of followers, the result is indeed harmful to legitimate science.

Look at what has happened around vaccination hysteria, anti-evolution movements, anti-abortion movements, crank medicines like homeopathy and crystal healing, cancer and aids denial, anti-gmo hysteria, anti-global warming, the law of attraction quantum woo theory, racialism, eugenics, and anti-science movements. All of these have damaged real science and physically or emotionally harmed people. They have misled people with ignorance and lies.

In the 21st century, there is no excuse for not thinking rationally about reality. Teaching future generations that democracy means "my ignorance is as legitimate as your knowledge" will only doom them to making the same anti-intellectual mistakes that have created so much confusion and mistrust of what we actually know to be objective truth.

The beauty of life is that you can educate yourself and come to a rational and informed deduction of what is real and what is not. It is not good enough to just cherry pick what you want to accept as the truth without critical assessment of the facts.

Back on topic, is there anything you would like to say about the logical fallacies and psychological issues that underpin the belief in synchronicity and concepts like the "11:11 phenomenon"?

a reply to: spygeek

your idea of "reality" and what is "real" is so flawed its not even funny. i sincerely hope you open your mind and start to realize everything is not as it seems.

think about how a dolphin views the world.

now think about how you view the world.

not quite the same is it?

the key word is PERCEPTION.

if you are unaware of the definition please google it for your own sake.

originally posted by: spygeek
a reply to: dreamlotus1111

It is not good enough to just cherry pick what you want to accept as the truth without critical assessment of the facts.

i am certain of what is true because i have evidence through my own experiences that i have experienced. makes sense right?

a reply to: dreamlotus1111

A dolphin and a human live in the same objective reality, it is the subjective perspective of that reality that is different. As you correctly state, the key word is perception.

Perception does not make reality any different, only an individual's experience of it.

What is so flawed about what I deem to be real? What is so laughable about having a logical and rational basis for the idea of reality?
Condescending to me by saying I need to google the definition of perception, is ironic, considering you seem to think perception is what constitutes objective reality.

Please get back on topic. Is there anything you have to say about the fallacies required to support a belief in synchronicity?

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111

originally posted by: spygeek
a reply to: dreamlotus1111

It is not good enough to just cherry pick what you want to accept as the truth without critical assessment of the facts.

i am certain of what is true because i have evidence through my own experiences that i have experienced. makes sense right?

If those experiences are not shared by the majority of people, or not reproducible, or not measurable in a meaningful way from outside your own subjectivity, then it is a stretch to claim they accurately represent objective reality and truth.

a reply to: spygeek

you are missing my point with the dolphin vs human analogy. a dolphin for the most part has no concept of what science is at all. a dolphin lives in the ocean and is more concerned with its reality of swimming around and eating fish all day long. versus a human who has traveled to the inside of volcanos, traveled to space, had profound experiences visiting other dimensions speaking to entities or resonating with synchronistic experiences ect.

so because a dolphin does not subscribe to the notion of scientific reasoning would it make it less valid? you said observable reality. remember

and how about all of the things that are not observable by the naked eye or in physical form?

thats why we use tools to uncover the mysterious of the universe.

like we use a telescope to magnify microscopic particles we use our minds and awareness to see things that are HUMAN SENSES limit us from seeing in our physical 3d world/dimension.

if i told you i had experienced 360 degree vision and that it is possible you would tell me it is not because you are not at my same awareness level. like many individuals out there.

that doesnt make my experience any less valid.

life is about choices and some people choose to become aware of certain things. others choose not to.

a reply to: spygeek

I loved both albums, Synchronicity and Quadrophenia.

When I see 3:16 on the clock. I try to listen for breaking glass, and get scared that my candy ass might get stunner ed or hit wit a chair.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
a reply to: spygeek

if i told you i had experienced 360 degree vision and that it is possible you would tell me it is not because you are not at my same awareness level. like many individuals out there.

Were you dreaming when you experienced this 360 vision, ala the film waking life? Where you hallucinating, meditating, or otherwise imagining it?

If not, then yes, I would say it is not physically possible, not because of some undefined new age "awareness level" woo, but because it is not physically possible. There is no biological mechanism that would allow a human to naturally experience 360 vision. Eyes are incapable of it, that is not how they work.

that doesnt make my experience any less valid.

The fact it constitutes an unrealistic superpower, does in fact invalidate the claimed experience for me. If what you say is true, why aren't you famous? Why aren't you being studied and examined by biologists, or scientists who could validate your claim? Why have you provided no explanation for how you were able to achieve this, other than your completely nonsensical, elevated "awareness level"? Are you a mutant with extra eyes? How did it occur?

You have clearly demonstrated the superiority complex often evident in those who profess such woo that I mentioned earlier. I don't understand because I'm not on your awareness level? How condescending. Surely you mean like, I am not delusional but unaware of it like you?

Claims like this are invalid in the absence of corroborating evidence, or even a realistic explanation of how they might take place.

life is about choices and some people choose to become aware of certain things. others choose not to.

Apparently you are choosing to not become aware of critical thinking and basic rational logic. Otherwise you might say something that is actually relevant to the topic..

What have you to say about the logical fallacies required to support a belief in synchronistic coincidences being governed by an unconscious will? Do you refute them? Do you even understand what they are?

a reply to: spygeek

Interesting and well written, thanks. S&f.

I experienced synchronicity and still do sometimes, so i am not strictly against it. I see it more like flipping a coin to make a decission, you know what you want afterwards, you don't do what the coin "says". Except this John St juliens, he kind of surrendered to superstition.
Or tarot cards or runes, it doesn't change how you think, you just confirm or neglect.

But it really is interesting how many here immediately asume an acting agent behind it, reminded me of this article origins supernatural religious beliefs

Confirmed by the statements here...

all i keep hearing is the same thing over and over. you want to convince me that im wrong i get it. but you fail to realize how its impossible to prove me wrong when i have already experienced it for myself. so you can keep trying but its all just wasted energy.

a reply to: Peeple

Appreciated people, Thank you.

I agree with you are saying here. Ultimately, the synchronistic event or string of coincidences means to the observer whatever they want it to mean. This in itself is indicative to me of these occurrences, taken objectively and on their own, mean nothing.

It requires a certain mindset, and a willingness to commit to irrational fallacies, to give these events any significant or supernatural meaning.

I myself have experienced coincidences that in the moment seemed mind boggling, however, on reflection it becomes clear that that is simply how life works, and there is no inherent meaning to be found in then without some fairly contorsional mental gymnastics.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
all i keep hearing is the same thing over and over. you want to convince me that im wrong i get it. but you fail to realize how its impossible to prove me wrong when i have already experienced it for myself. so you can keep trying but its all just wasted energy.

I just want you to stop telling me all these unrealistic, outrageous, unsupported claims and actually address the topic of this thread.

Do you accept that in order to support and maintain a belief in synchronicity and such so-called phenomena as the "11:11 phenomenon", multiple logical fallacies are required to be committed?

Do you not accept this? Why not? Which fallacies do not apply? What makes such a belief rational or logical, from an objective viewpoint?

Please, please, please say something relevant to the topic. I'm getting tired of asking.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111

Clogging my thread up with irrelevant crap like this is pointless. I'm not trying to change anyone. I'm asking for a rational discussion about the topic at hand. If someone changes their view of synchronicity because of something they read here, including myself, that's fine. However that is not to goal of this thread.