Why are you so afraid of the socialist society?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

No one has EVER said that Democratic Socialism does not include Capitalism. People are able to work at what they want to - they are free to work harder and to "opt out" of the social programs. You consistently REFUSE to understand it or even to hear it, and you do a disservice to our membership to insult any non-American coming here and offering to answer questions.

The type of "Socialism" that Norway practices is a Democratic Socialism, with very open Capitalist opportunities. That is what is being suggested for the USA - not Communism.

Terrible manners, there, Bathe... Just terrible.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

No one has EVER said that Democratic Socialism does not include Capitalism. People are able to work at what they want to - they are free to work harder and to "opt out" of the social programs. You consistently REFUSE to understand it or even to hear it, and you do a disservice to our membership to insult any non-American coming here and offering to answer questions.

The type of "Socialism" that Norway practices is a Democratic Socialism, with very open Capitalist opportunities. That is what is being suggested for the USA - not Communism.

Terrible manners, there, Bathe... Just terrible.

OP touted "Socialistic Dogma"...I aptly informed him that his nation is very much CAPITALIST and RICH off of minerals and petroleum.

He can afford to tout Socialism, and smugly question Americans while sitting in an ivory tower.

And I will call ANYONE out here in ATS, whether you like it or not. I.E...don't care about your outrage

lol, China and Venezuela supposedly included "capitalism".

Some of the scandanavian countries are always thrown out there as "fabulous socialist successes".

They got that way by being about as lily white as the KKK, and having about zero immigration for the longest time. As well as being barely bigger than a hippy commune or kibbutz.

Now that they are observing the never-avoidable PC/ one-world / anarchy that socialism must always embrace....they are done.

Socialism doesn't work. Only in deluded, immature minds that never account for reality or human behaviors.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
So is the US military.

Well, to be fair, the military is voluntary--attending school (up until a certain age) is not.

But to be fair again, both the military and the public school system are shining examples of organizations that tend to think that more money money money will solve their problems, so they are bloated, out of control, and still have very big problems (and are a big drain on the taxpayers' wallets).

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
So is the US military.

Well, to be fair, the military is voluntary--attending school (up until a certain age) is not.

But to be fair again, both the military and the public school system are shining examples of organizations that tend to think that more money money money will solve their problems, so they are bloated, out of control, and still have very big problems (and are a big drain on the taxpayers' wallets).

There's money being thrown at America's public school system?

Where?

a reply to: maplecustom

Because (more) socialism means greater sums of money for our corrupt Congress to steal. The U.S. has no effective spending oversight and no accountability in government.

That's my one and only fear with regard to (more) socialism.

You act as if we can trust our government with spending.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

No one has EVER said that Democratic Socialism does not include Capitalism. People are able to work at what they want to - they are free to work harder and to "opt out" of the social programs. You consistently REFUSE to understand it or even to hear it, and you do a disservice to our membership to insult any non-American coming here and offering to answer questions.

The type of "Socialism" that Norway practices is a Democratic Socialism, with very open Capitalist opportunities. That is what is being suggested for the USA - not Communism.

Terrible manners, there, Bathe... Just terrible.

OP touted "Socialistic Dogma"...I aptly informed him that his nation is very much CAPITALIST and RICH off of minerals and petroleum.

He can afford to tout Socialism, and smugly question Americans while sitting in an ivory tower.

And I will call ANYONE out here in ATS, whether you like it or not. I.E...don't care about your outrage

Dude, i'm not touting anything. Im asking you a queston because i dont understand your way of thinking. I guess reading your post, they sort of got answered. And no need to get crazy.

Your friendly norwegian

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Well, to be fair, the military is voluntary--attending school (up until a certain age) is not.

Being in the military doesn't make it socialist.

Being paid for by taxes/society supposedly for the greater good makes it socialist.

Interstate highways are socialist constructs as well as the lighting of roads.

Things funded by society for the benefit of society are socialist.

originally posted by: maplecustom
Hello friends. I am very curious to know why some of you are so incredibly negative towards the idea of a socialist approach to sosiety in the US?

In all things where innovation, grit and hard work matter for the advancement of mankind...capitalism is the answer...no doubt...period...full stop. Just the facts. It incentives hard work, optimization, innovation and efficiency.

In all things where hard work can not make a difference (battling cancer for example)...a socialist solution is reasonable. I am for capitalism...also for universal healthcare, because working harder doesn't cure disease. Disease doesn't care how hard you work or how successful you are.

But a "socialist" society as a whole? ...Leads to oppressive central governments...just the facts of history.

Capitalism everywhere it makes a difference...only "socialism" where it doesn't.

I am not afraid, I am opposed. My labors should pay to me exactly what I have earned. If I work harder/smarter/longer than you, I and I alone should enjoy ALL the fruits of my labors. I do not work to enable failure or defeatism or sloth. Want more? Work more.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

OP touted "Socialistic Dogma"...I aptly informed him that his nation is very much CAPITALIST and RICH off of minerals and petroleum.

He can afford to tout Socialism, and smugly question Americans while sitting in an ivory tower.

And I will call ANYONE out here in ATS, whether you like it or not. I.E...don't care about your outrage

You aptly informed him of what his country is like - so, you do know that their system is based on Capitalism with strong social safety nets......you even acknowledged that it's a good system! It's the EXACT SYSTEM that Bernie Sanders is promoting! Why can't you see that? You'd move to Norway in a heartbeat? News flash - the southwest of Norway is a mild climate. I've been there. It's much warmer than you think. It's beautiful. The place is clean, classy, and well-maintained.

"My" outrage? Dude, you're two breaths away from having a heart attack arguing over NOTHING....no one ever said Norway wasn't a capitalist-based country. What do you not get about that?

Good gawd....calm down!
Being "jealous" or "envious" of something you/we could have if you'd only listen to and support those who want to implement it here is well -- strange.

I laugh at it....it doesn't "outrage" me.

originally posted by: jaffo
I am not afraid, I am opposed. My labors should pay to me exactly what I have earned. If I work harder/smarter/longer than you, I and I alone should enjoy ALL the fruits of my labors. I do not work to enable failure or defeatism or sloth. Want more? Work more.

as a nation there are some things we can not do as individuals..

If the road in front of your house was maintained by you and each and every home owner individually...It would be a pretty wild drive (including some strange tolls) to work every day....So we suck it up and say, this is something best done as a "society" and we should all chip in...

Ditto military, police, fire, etc.

I would argue healthcare should fall under this heading, because cancer and disease does not care about if you "work harder/smarter/longer"...

But I do agree in all things where "work harder/smarter/longer" matters...capitalism should be cherished.

a reply to: maplecustom

Why are you so afraid of the socialist society?

That's quite an assumptive thread title.

Hmmmm... do I know you? Are you one of the persons who lives at the end of the dirt road that veers off by the old dead possum and rounds out by the silty pond? You must be because they are always coming by demanding we give them free eggs.

We did at first but then, they came to expect it and when we sent them away empty handed one day, they camped out front with signs calling us all kinds of bad names. They say that eggs are natural and we have no right to deny them. Worse still, they now want milk from our goats!

Why are you so afraid of private ownership?

Just curious...

...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: maplecustom
...
Living in Norway, a country where society is based on socialist dogmas I will happily try to answer any questions you have of it all and debate to the best of my abilities.

I have a better idea... Why in the hell are you so interested in bringing socialism to America?... If you are happy with how your society is ran, good for you.

But what is this need of some people to claim their way of life is better than others and that everyone should emulate them?...

Americans in general do not want to emulate ANY European countries, or ANY other country. You choose what you want to, we have our own way of life.

Can't you just accept and respect the fact that not everyone in the world is the same, and would not agree that "your idea of socialism" is a good idea in some other country such as the U.S.?...

I have in no way stated that i am interested in bringning socialism to america. I have a few american friends, i have studyed over there and check up on your political election situation -because i find it Interessting.

I do not claim my/our way of living is better than yours. It's different in some ways, yes. Do I personaly think as an outstander you guys should try a different aproach, yes. Do I clame this change is our way of living, no. This is a debate not a lecture.

a reply to: maplecustom

You need to read up on your history, both Soviet and US.

The United States was intended to be a Republic. We have fought for 240 years to try to keep it as such.

Although it is now an oligarchy operating under a shell government, most US patriots would, like hopeless Romans, prefer to return it to a Republic.

Better dead than Red.

originally posted by: redoubt
a reply to: maplecustom

Why are you so afraid of the socialist society?

That's quite an assumptive thread title.

Hmmmm... do I know you? Are you one of the persons who lives at the end of the dirt road that veers off by the old dead possum and rounds out by the silty pond? You must be because they are always coming by demanding we give them free eggs.

We did at first but then, they came to expect it and when we sent them away empty handed one day, they camped out front with signs calling us all kinds of bad names. They say that eggs are natural and we have no right to deny them. Worse still, they now want milk from our goats!

Why are you so afraid of private ownership?

Just curious...

...

I am in no way afraid of private ownership in general.
When it comes to education and health, i am very afraid.

Grim said:
Being in the military doesn't make it socialist.

Being paid for by taxes/society supposedly for the greater good makes it socialist.

Interstate highways are socialist constructs as well as the lighting of roads.

Things funded by society for the benefit of society are socialist.

Actually you are employed by the government or a government agency. Some people get too wrapped up in terminology, that is the problem when people cannot see the forest through the trees.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

No one has EVER said that Democratic Socialism does not include Capitalism. People are able to work at what they want to - they are free to work harder and to "opt out" of the social programs. You consistently REFUSE to understand it or even to hear it, and you do a disservice to our membership to insult any non-American coming here and offering to answer questions.

The type of "Socialism" that Norway practices is a Democratic Socialism, with very open Capitalist opportunities. That is what is being suggested for the USA - not Communism.

Terrible manners, there, Bathe... Just terrible.

OP touted "Socialistic Dogma"...I aptly informed him that his nation is very much CAPITALIST and RICH off of minerals and petroleum.

He can afford to tout Socialism, and smugly question Americans while sitting in an ivory tower.

And I will call ANYONE out here in ATS, whether you like it or not. I.E...don't care about your outrage

I wouldn't try and sound like you are making a big noise when you are wrong, you are talking about communism, not a socially democratic society, and yes, lots of people on ATS seem to think the two must equate to each other because that's what they want to hear as it demonises the idea. There is nothing to suggest capitalism is a naughty world in a socially democratic society, if anything it means your tithe (tax) to the well being of the country may be higher based on your earnings, but that's effectively the same as higher earners paying more tax.

originally posted by: Restricted
a reply to: maplecustom

You need to read up on your history, both Soviet and US.

The United States was intended to be a Republic. We have fought for 240 years to try to keep it as such.

Although it is now an oligarchy operating under a shell government, most US patriots would, like hopeless Romans, prefer to return it to a Republic.

Better dead than Red.

This is incredible - why are people assuming social democracy = communism? Is really brain washed into people in America that deeply that it's either do it as America does it or you are doing it as Russia does it?

Sheesh