Why are you so afraid of the socialist society?

Technology will bring us to either the hungers games or to star treks social utopia and if we don't want to go extinct we need to embrace the utopia. Right now they can justify charging people for the necessities of life but once we can produce those things for next to nothing which we eventually will have to eliminate the concept of money as a means to perpetuate society.

Because with Socialism, the first generations to get it are thankful, the future generations expect it, and usually want more....and more....and more.....

Eventually you run out of other people's money. (Greece, for example)

No thanks.

I'd rather work for what I get.

In the end, if I fail, or live in poverty, there is no one to blame but me. NO ONE.

a reply to: maplecustom

The best examples I can think of is.....

- we have too many people, and too many of those don't even work.

-the people don't want a bueracrat that does not know anything about healthcare (i.e. Obama) making des ions for me and you

-socialism leads to laziness and an apathetic society. We tried it in the colonies and people in their heads had it that the next guy will pick up their slack. There's no incentive if you are going to make the same etc to do better if your return is the same.

- I have always said give an inch and the govt takes a mile... Example patriot act

- Graffik

a reply to: ketsuko

How is that any different than socialized taxpayer funded bail outs of too big to fail Banks? Selective socialism of the Wealthy

originally posted by: maplecustom
Hello friends. I am very curious to know why some of you are so incredibly negative towards the idea of a socialist approach to sosiety in the US? Reading posts here on ATS i find most of your opinions and meanings towards how it really works, and would work for you guys, to be filled with an astounding amount of fear of it all.

Do you think the government would just take over everything and dictate your say in every matter? Tax you into the ground? Give you free healthcare, free education and restrict your opportunities for Success?

Living in Norway, a country where society is based on socialist dogmas I will happily try to answer any questions you have of it all and debate to the best of my abilities.

1) What makes you think that the U.S. would handle "Socialist Dogmas" like Norway? We are two COMPLETELY different societies.

2) There is not ONE nation in Europe that has a Socialist economic model. You are almost ALL mixed economies like the U.S....but rooted in Capitalism.

3) There are only roughly 6 nations left on this planet that are true "Socialist" economies. Why? Because Socialism is failed and the Grand experiment didn't work.

4) You are a mainly Nordic Europe culture and genetic people. You don't have high crime rates, a roughly 8% illegal immigrant population, a completely collapsed education system, a culture of laziness, entire cities which are unskilled and unemployed, drug addiction, etc.

You might feel okay in Norway. You may feel you are a success there. But you are Capitalists, and your people are almost on another planet than ours culturally. And I say that as a compliment

Can't even compare us both

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: ketsuko

How is that any different than socialized taxpayer funded bail outs of too big to fail Banks? Selective socialism of the Wealthy

I was against those too.

Socialism only works with a culture and people who work with it and for it.

The U.S. would collapse under ANY Socialist model within a year.

The "undesirable" demographics here are too vast, wide, and entrenched

It's actually amazing that a Norwegian can come onto ATS, and preach the virtues of socialism to Americans... (most ATS users)

Your country is neck deep in natural resources and petroleum industry, you have a hard to access border, it's cold there which is a stop gap itself to many foreign invaders....and you have only what....6 million people on a relatively nice sized plot of land.

"Socialist" ....?????

If Norway were a person, it would be the spoiled rich kid of wealthy Elitist Liberals on the block who has all the toys he wants and looks at the other poor kids confused.

Norway can AFFORD to have social programs in perpetuity. And for many of the reasons I listed above.

You are basically the spoiled rich Liberal brats of Europe. Don't compare us anymore. It's actually insulting

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Basically, you just equated Norway to being the better off, well-educated kid on the block that aims higher in life versus the US, the drunk trailer trash illiterate bum around the corner.

And you have no idea how funny that is, because it's a nice way of pointing out everything wrong with the US summed up as a person XD

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Basically, you just equated Norway to being the better off, well-educated kid on the block that aims higher in life versus the US, the drunk trailer trash illiterate bum around the corner.

And you have no idea how funny that is, because it's a nice way of pointing out everything wrong with the the US summed up as a person XD

And you would be correct.

Except I would describe the "kid" (Norway)...the spoiled brat of a very OIL RICH....very CAPITALIST.. .FATHER.

Otherwise you're spot on

Take the average temperature of Norway, add about 40 degrees heat annually to that, open the borders (like the US)...then come back in ten years and tell us how Norway is...

Deal??

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

The only difference I see is that the US' dad is a deadbeat, whereas Norway's dad takes care of Norway like he should.

a reply to: maplecustom

You wanna know how Norway gets away with being so Liberal, and practice "Socialist Dogma"?

Because you're so wealthy and sparsely populated
...you can AFFORD IT.

The short answer to the OP , for me anyway; is this :

I fear a socialist society because more than any other, historically speaking, socialism rejects the principles of individualism and individual liberty.

If adhering to the principles of voluntaryism became a part of the socialist agenda, there would be no fear.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

The only difference I see is that the US' dad is a deadbeat, whereas Norway's dad takes care of Norway like he should.

It's quite easy when "Dad" lives in the frozen wilderness with his barrels of oil, and his closest neighbor is another wilderness settler, and they both have high fences between them.

And P.S. Norway has many widely FREE MARKET industries that give it's economy competition, in many cases MORE Free Market than the U.S.

"Socialism"?.....riiiiggghhhtt

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
And P.S. Norway has many widely FREE MARKET industries that give it's economy competition, in many cases MORE Free Market than the U.S.

"Socialism"?.....riiiiggghhhtt

You know, your envy is really pretty poorly veiled here. Let me sum up your multiple posts for everyone:

"Wow, check out Norway! They've got a balance between capitalism & socialism, and it's rockin'. In fact, it's so rockin' that it steamrolls the US in overall QoL. Man, that makes me feel like sh#, after being spoonfed years' worth of 'We're Number One!' drivel, we're apparently not."

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
And P.S. Norway has many widely FREE MARKET industries that give it's economy competition, in many cases MORE Free Market than the U.S.

"Socialism"?.....riiiiggghhhtt

You know, your envy is really pretty poorly veiled here. Let me sum up your multiple posts for everyone:

"Wow, check out Norway! They've got a balance between capitalism & socialism, and it's rockin'. In fact, it's so rockin' that it steamrolls the US in overall QoL. Man, that makes me feel like sh#, after being spoonfed years' worth of 'We're Number One!' drivel, we're apparently not."

I thought my envy was pretty obvious. I would move to Norway in a heartbeat if it wasn't so cold, and be another spoiled "Socialist" ( Uber rich capitalist)

Secondly, I'm calling out the very insulting and asinine theory that Norway is Socialist. Patently false, patently obsurd, patently smug.

OP is a smug rich oil Liberal beneficiary lecturing Americans on Socialism because he gets free health care. A smugness only a rich Liberal could imagine

Otherwise, yes I'm totally envious.

In my opinion, most Americans recoil at the very mention of words like 'socialism' and 'communism' because they've been conditioned to over history. Nothing else except social conditioning would explain the general reaction seen, and the source is so simple I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen it mentioned here yet.

Before WW2 there were open far-left leaning politicians and political parties in America, and prominent politicians who openly declared themselves socialist or communist, to which the general public seemed to tolerate and lend a fair amount of support (enough support for groups to survive for decades). Then after WW2 came the realization that the Soviets - mutual best friends in the war for uniting against a common foe - pretty well controlled half of the world under an iron-fisted dictator.

So suddenly, almost overnight in terms of a broad historic timescale, your gallant allies became public enemy number one. This complete 180-degree spin instantly also had the effect of placing any public figure or political group that claimed any basic resemblance to the concept of socialism or communism under a very uncomfortable spotlight.

Enter Joseph McCarthy, probably the most villainous person in American history in my opinion, who used the growing Red Scare to personally attack not only suspected socialist groups or suspected communists, but practically anyone he seemed to dislike for any reason. Combine this with the "House Un-American Activities Committee" attacking and virtually destroying the career of anyone forced to attend - actors, directors, writers, industrialists - and you have a general public that quickly realizes that if they are caught extolling sympathies toward such left-leaning causes, they might be the ones hauled out infront of such a committee and ruined in both the private and public eye, blacklisted and unable to appeal.

As such, it was ingrained into the culture at large: socialism and communism bad; capitalism and consumerism good! And even more than 60 years later, the thick veneer of fear and loathing laid by McCarthy and his like-minded compatriots still cling to the American political system, where anyone running for office on an open socialist platform does so with a roll of the dice to bathe in a torrent of public vitriol in amounts totally disproportionate to elsewhere in the world.

So just like Pavlov's dog salivating at a ringing bell, Americans have been conditioned to bark, growl and foam viciously at socialism without knowing exactly why or how - though I'm sure the same could be said about any communist nation in regards to how they are socially conditioned to feel about democracy or capitalism.

a reply to: maplecustom

Thank you for stepping up to answer questions. I'm embarrassed that so many are being so rude to you.

As others have pointed out, many Americans do not understand that Democratic Socialism such as practiced in your country is a combination of Capitalism and Socialism....

they think COMMIE!!!! when they hear the word. It's a knee-jerk reaction born out of IGNORANCE.

For my part, I think it is a brilliant system you have there. (And yes, I have visited and have friends there )

The population difference is one of the main issues that naysayers bring up. Why could we not start with states choosing to try it on, one at a time? They have no answer for that. Right now I live in a State that has attempted to do away with social structures entirely, privatize everything they could get away with, and slashed taxes. The State is now broke, and BROKEN. A fail.

Some of our states are more progressive and less ignorant and less stubborn - and they are doing well.

I especially think it's awful that members would berate you for even offering to answer questions. May I ask, how old are you, and what is your occupation?