Pentagon: 2 U.S. Navy Boats Held by Iran Military

Everything is over. The US servicemen have been released following a formal aplogy. You break someone's territorial integrity and you apologize for it cause you're a civilized nation. There was really no need for chest bumping and rhetoric as Republican warmongers did in the Congress

John Kerry did it all. Curse him to death if you want but i really do believe he is probably the smartest foreign secretary the US has ever had

Everything can be resolved with talking and negotiations and thats how humans should act in the first place

originally posted by: haman10

Everything can be resolved with talking and negotiations and thats how humans should act in the first place

It sure beats the alternatives.

a reply to: Majic

Or, one broke, due to an issue that couldn't be found under normal maintenance, the inspections and maintenance were done properly and it broke anyway, and the second boat stayed with them working the problem, thinking they could fix it, and during that time they strayed into Iranian waters, and the IRCG knew they were there and were waiting for them.

There doesn't need to be any incompetence involved. They may have started out closer to Iranian waters than they were supposed to be. We've seen a number of cases where ships that had much more advanced systems ended up where they shouldn't be, for whatever reason.

The area in question is in the worst place to get them support, unless it's already nearby. As for taking them under tow, water jets don't tow other boats well. Unlike a normal prop, it's not a matter of just throwing a rope across and dragging them out.

a reply to: Zaphod58

As for taking them under tow, water jets don't tow other boats well. Unlike a normal prop, it's not a matter of just throwing a rope across and dragging them out.

Do they have an anchor on these craft?

Maybe they could have dropped on of those in order to avoid drifting into the waters of a country that our relationship could called 'strained' at best.

As far as them not being aware of where they were (why did we put all of those darned GPS sattelites up there anyway?).... well that is a pretty important thing, so if we don't call it incompetent, we will have to at least say that mistakes were made.

a reply to: butcherguy

If they lost power, they may have lost GPS for a time as well.

I've seen boats end up aground because they broke down, and the crew thought it was a simple fix that would only take a couple minutes. Then got so engrossed in the repairs they failed to notice they were drifting into a sand bar.

An Eastern Airlines L1011 crashed because of that. They were going in to Florida and when they put the gear down, had two green and one out. They started working the problem, and one of the crew accidentally pushed forward on the yoke and disconnected the altitude hold function. They circled lower and lower and no one noticed until it was far too late because they were so engrossed in the problem.

Yes, mistakes were definitely made, but mistakes do not incompetence make.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I've seen boats end up aground because they broke down, and the crew thought it was a simple fix that would only take a couple minutes. Then got so engrossed in the repairs they failed to notice they were drifting into a sand bar.

I understand how it could have happened.

I still think that it should not have happened.

I have seen plenty of fishing boats aground.... mostly due to incompetent people at the helm. But this is the US Navy that we are talking about, and I was in the Navy... although I was never attached to a riverine patrol craft.

A big difference is this wasn't a sand bar that they were drifting onto, they were entering the waters of a potentially hostile country. We have shot down one of their airliners and they have attacked and brought down our aircraft. Not a good place to have a learning experience combined with a 'DUH' moment.

a reply to: butcherguy

No it shouldn't have, but that doesn't equal incompetence. Yes, it's the Navy, but they're still human and can and do still screw up, just like anyone else.

They may have thought they were farther out than they were, so had more time.

"The sailors departed Farsi Island... aboard the two Riverine Command Boats (RCB) that they had been operating when they lost contact with the US Navy," the Pentagon said.

"The sailors were later transferred ashore by US Navy aircraft, while other sailors took charge of the RCBs and continued transiting toward Bahrain, the boats' original destination."

a reply to: Zaphod58

I know my use of the word "incompetence" may seem harsh, but it is an assessment based on the outcome.

Mistakes do happen, equipment fails and anything that can go wrong does go wrong. And it is precisely for those reasons that competent sailors and commanders anticipate, prepare and relentlessly train for every conceivable eventuality.

Some things cannot be avoided, even with the best preparation, but being captured by the IRGC for violating Iran's territorial waters is not one of them.

It is commendable that Iran has returned the sailors and their vessels so quickly, but inexcusable that the U.S. Navy allowed them to be captured in the first place.

The safety and well-being of U.S. naval personnel is not suitable for compromise. I pray the Navy still shares that view, and will act accordingly.

One developed a mechanical fault leading them to drift into Iranian territorial waters around Farsi Island.

When the US lost contact with the boats, ships attached to the USS Harry S Truman aircraft carrier strike group began searching the area, along with aircraft flying off the Truman.

The Iran water was the water near Farsi Island.

a reply to: Majic

And pilots with thousands of combat hours still make mistakes, despite all their experience and preparation. Are they still incompetent?

The B-2 that crashed on Guam was crewed by highly trained pilots, with experienced ground crew prepping the aircraft. They still crashed. Incompetence?

Human error happens without it being incompetence, regardless of what we may think.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Making mistakes is not incompetence.

Failing to anticipate, prepare for and mitigate them is.

There is simply no way the Navy I know would ever accept this.

a reply to: Majic

So anyone that fails to anticipate everything is incompetent. Because you can't anticipate everything that could possibly happen

If you're making a decision based on the best information you have, and something still happens, it's not incompetence.

. So it was all a non issue then.

Seems both the USA and Iran acted professionally and handled it all well and within the rules.

originally posted by: crazyewok
. So it was all a non issue then.

Seems both the USA and Iran acted professionally and handled it all well and within the rules.

I hope that you are correct.
All the news reports seem to indicate that they have been released, but we had reports shortly after the incident (from the US military) that they had been released and that wasn't correct.

I am glad that it was all handled very diplomatically. My hat is off to Iran, as they could have kept the boats if they wanted.

I'm sorry, I do not accept this as an innocent mistake. Look at a map; Farsi Island is in the middle of the Gulf, the boats were said to be going from Kuwait to Bahrain. There is no reason these boats should have taken a course which lead them by Farsi Island...unless they intentionally wanted to do this. The Gulf is nearly 100 miles wide at this point!

Okay, now let's look at a mechanical failure. Even if the wind was blowing 50mph (which it wasn't) it would take hours for a boat to drift into territorial waters...unless they were intentionally close to those territorial waters to begin with. Secondly, if the intention was to probe territorial waters under the ruse of a broken boat, fine, but this would be a serious mission. A serious mission like this wouldn't lack multiple layers of redundancy in knowing their exact geographical position.

Conversely, if a US Naval craft without several levels of redundancy was "innocently" piloted fully 30+ miles off course, then broke down and drifted into the territorial waters of a known adversary, this would be incompetence of the highest order...at many levels.

Some stories suggest radio contact was lost and aircraft from the Truman were dispatched to search for the boats. Ummm...I've owned boats for 40 years, and every single boat I've ever been on the radio worked just fine when the engine was off (and so did all my navigation gear). AND, I never left shore with just one radio, yet the United States Navy does this??? I think not. Not to mention the fact there were two boats, not one, so the radios on BOTH boats suddenly stopped working?? Impossible!

Bottom line; if these sailors were placed in harms way like pawns in some larger chess game then heads should roll. If these sailors were so incompetent as to stray that far off course and into enemy waters on their own...then heads should roll. This easily could have devolved into a major international incident. If we want to probe territorial waters then do it with a fishing boat (and the CIA), not a flag carrying US Naval vessel. Likewise, if we're going to be anywhere near territorial waters of an adversary...

- Don't send boats which have so little redundancy they can't recover from a mechanical failure.
- Don't send boats without multiple layers of redundancy for both communications and situational/locational awareness.
- Don't do stupid stuff!

Somebody's head needs to roll for this!

The drifting thing still bothers me, as any Navy skipper understands how currents affect a DIW boat, and they certainly had a GPS that would show the drift rate and position. I had wondered why they did not throw anchor, as it seems the water depth was between 65 and 150ft. (judging purely by sea depth in Google Earth, and using the approximate position showed by CNN). Of course, the reasons they did not throw anchor must be a good one, because it would be textbook not to allow yourself to drift towards shore.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Was typing my post while you had just posted.
I think we are in agreement that things, as stated, do not add up, and there is more to this that we will probably not be told.

"We weren't spying, we had engine trouble". Seemed to be able to leave without problems.

Hard to believe the navy search couldn't find them.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I'm sorry, I do not accept this as an innocent mistake. Look at a map; Farsi Island is in the middle of the Gulf, the boats were said to be going from Kuwait to Bahrain. There is no reason these boats should have taken a course which lead them by Farsi Island...unless they intentionally wanted to do this. The Gulf is nearly 100 miles wide at this point!

Okay, now let's look at a mechanical failure. Even if the wind was blowing 50mph (which it wasn't) it would take hours for a boat to drift into territorial waters...unless they were intentionally close to those territorial waters to begin with. Secondly, if the intention was to probe territorial waters under the ruse of a broken boat, fine, but this would be a serious mission. A serious mission like this wouldn't lack multiple layers of redundancy in knowing their exact geographical position.

Conversely, if a US Naval craft without several levels of redundancy was "innocently" piloted fully 30+ miles off course, then broke down and drifted into the territorial waters of a known adversary, this would be incompetence of the highest order...at many levels.

Some stories suggest radio contact was lost and aircraft from the Truman were dispatched to search for the boats. Ummm...I've owned boats for 40 years, and every single boat I've ever been on the radio worked just fine when the engine was off (and so did all my navigation gear). AND, I never left shore with just one radio, yet the United States Navy does this??? I think not. Not to mention the fact there were two boats, not one, so the radios on BOTH boats suddenly stopped working?? Impossible!

Bottom line; if these sailors were placed in harms way like pawns in some larger chess game then heads should roll. If these sailors were so incompetent as to stray that far off course and into enemy waters on their own...then heads should roll. This easily could have devolved into a major international incident. If we want to probe territorial waters then do it with a fishing boat (and the CIA), not a flag carrying US Naval vessel. Likewise, if we're going to be anywhere near territorial waters of an adversary...

- Don't send boats which have so little redundancy they can't recover from a mechanical failure.
- Don't send boats without multiple layers of redundancy for both communications and situational/locational awareness.
- Don't do stupid stuff!

Somebody's head needs to roll for this!

The real issue at hand is "what was the USA doing there" but they will never tell us the truth.