Can we say whether humans are fundamentally good or evil ?

BOTH

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

It can be hard to be very benevolent when you are not 100% disconnected from the souls who behave malevolent.

TRUTH, for if 1 LOVES ALL* Created, then how can 1 choose what part of the Created family to love and what part of the Created family not to love?
Spiritual paradoxes crossed...

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
But that is the struggle here is it not? To be the best you can be under insane circumstances.

Acknowledged

inherently good or evil is an abject impossibility... as the notion of good or evil is just a variable in the equation and not a constant. All things that arise to conscious awareness are dependent on someting... notions of good or evil has to have a root from which such is judged... the notion of one or the other is planted there and takes root the fruit of an action being concidered good or evil does not arise in and of itself... so inherent is a misnomer. Ask yourself if animals by animal standards behave good or evil and it cant be answered except as a human denying their own animal nature with conceptual judgements of good and evil.

If one must use a meter tis better for humanity to guage by harm in regards to ethics instead of concepts of moralistic good and evil that is really just black and white instead of judging the circumstances surrounding the situation that may or may not have harmed... a specific cause cannot always be correlated as good or even evil, it is this reason why religion and politics mixing is a very bad idea.

a reply to: gosseyn

I agree, we cannot know. I also agree with others that "good and evil" are subjective human concepts. Nevertheless, I do believe we can still discuss these concepts in the context of this topic without derailing the thread.

Misanthropists love to claim that humans are the most evil creature on the planet. They will say things like "animals only kill other animals to survive" while citing the latest serial killer as proof that humans are evil.

The truth is that with over 7 billion human beings, to classify most as either evil or good is simply not plausible. I am a staunch opponent of the idea of guilt-by-association and that's all these "humans are evil" rants are - lumping together most with the actions of a relatively small percentage.

Humans are inherently divisive. There is always somebody in every topic that will take the other side. It's also genetic from birth. Cells divide. Good or evil is one's perspective and these beliefs are nurtured within their group or culture. Every human is capable of anything. That is reality. Because humans were born with every emotion. We are also capable of change and are given freedom of choice and willpower. I often wonder if there is an emotion that humans were not given.

Neither. Just as in nature there has to be a ying-yang mix. The perfect balance. Its the person themselves that changes this balance.And there can be adverse affects from being "too good"
Peace.

a reply to: TamtammyMacx
I tend to just focus on the ones that get hidden and seem to be taken away or severely dulled over time such as compassion and empathy... quite a few might be surprised that it has the possibility to transform out of the negative connotations such usually carry, as compassion and empathy are the usual targets people look for thinking such people naieve and easy to manipulate or control... as enough of that is usually what builds the walls making it difficult to trust people enough to have compassion and empathy for peoples struggles on the whole... however, it can break way and transform into a very unexpected equanimity in enlightenment...

the realization of all experience surrounding and coalescing in a state of non attachment is very different than being mired in the experience as ones own... but instead it transforms into a fully faceted gem that is comprised of every experience that is its suchness or what can possibly be percieved of it in its total without any personal bias to cloud any future moment in which it arises... and all that arises is dependent on something else, what makes things worse is when a bias of attachment arises in a codependency that is not in the nature to arise with what that something normally or naturally would on the actual reality that it arises from... so anything arising due to a cocommitant attachment is simply the illusion or shadow of a self sitting on top of it.

so very many examples of that in action... but thats what consciousness attached to name and form does as it sits right between name/form and mental volition.

many emotions are often underdeveloped, misunderstood, or way out of balance by excercising one a lot and repressing its opposite... while we may have the capacity for all of them, that doesnt necessarily mean theyll be present when appropriate because of? ding ding ding attachment to an experience that has formed a bias masquerading as the truth of the situation... while that may seem real as anything? it is not universal truth of the moment just a small relational truth as one knows it and calls it a self, that can relate to many in the experience from similarity but not all, unless what it arose with was itself and the trickiest part? not getting dragged along for the ride

If humans are evil why is there mercy even in the depths of human degradation?
If humans are good why is it so enticing to hunt the bad ones?
We are nothing if we aren't creatures of chaos.
I know mankind is NOT evil,having perpetrated some of it on my fellow man before.
And I still like animals..

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Is that why people can 'handle' some of the most dangerous creatures in the world without getting hurt? Reply and I will give you examples. #tapping feet

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

why could you not just give citations to your claim ?

PS - my request was species specific - i hope your reply will be

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Erm, I will get back to you on that one...

originally posted by: gosseyn
Can we say whether humans are fundamentally good or evil ?

We can say anything, but saying that is a falsehood, bereft of knowledge.
ALL 'good' and ALL 'evil' exist in the judgmental vanity of the imagination of the beholder!

"We do not see the world as it is, we see it as we are!"

No one ever broke open a rock, or a person, and found anything defined as 'evil', or 'good'!
The Loving eye never sees 'good/evil', the Loving eye only sees the Beloved!
There is NO judgment in Love!

If you look and see 'evil' "out there", you are just looking in the mirror!
And if you see the 'evil' in yourself, that is just for the moment.
Vain judgment is vain judgment!
We NEVER have sufficient data to judge people, or anything else!

"The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly." --Richard Bach

Being so easily distracted, human beings are easily lured to whichever side glitters the most without a care for whether it is thought to be good or evil. In either case, inherent selfishness is always what guides our decisions. Altruism is a myth, it simply does not exist in any measurable form. This may lead some to say we are incapable of anything truly good; when we do good, it is always for the benefit of ourselves. Is that good, or is it evil...? Who can say?

I think some things are fundamentally good or bad to living creatures.

Most living creatures fear dying, it is universal to try to survive.

I would say most mentally healthy humans would consider brutal, violent murder as being evil.

Or saving a stranger from the grasp of death as being good.

I think there is some universal truth for humans, but it applies to only a hand full of things.

originally posted by: odd1out
Being so easily distracted, human beings are easily lured to whichever side glitters the most without a care for whether it is thought to be good or evil. In either case, inherent selfishness is always what guides our decisions. Altruism is a myth, it simply does not exist in any measurable form. This may lead some to say we are incapable of anything truly good; when we do good, it is always for the benefit of ourselves. Is that good, or is it evil...? Who can say?

I do not understand how you can think Altruism is a myth.

I have found it some people get high on altruism, just like a psychopath gets high on hurting.

a reply to: yesyesyes

Your response fits exactly the latter part of the point I was trying make; regardless "GOOD" or "EVIL" humans are always out to serve themselves and what makes them feel good/what they want. You can't have altruism (see definition) when there is selfish gain involved.

al·tru·ism
ˈaltro͞oˌizəm/
noun
noun: altruism
The belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.
"some may choose to work with vulnerable elderly people out of altruism"
In Zoology:
Behavior of an animal that benefits another at its own expense.

a reply to: odd1out

Altruism is a double-edged sword in a sense. Any time you devote time to others is time you have deprived for yourself. Without devoting all your time to yourself, you will not live up to your full potential. Ironically, failure to fully harness your potential means others will need to devote their time to helping you - at a cost to themselves.