The minorities support Donald J Trump!

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Understood.
Sadly, the easiest way to the white house is to exploit the ignorance (many) Americans.

Trump is a genius in that regard. [LIVs] Low Information Voters using emotion, and catering to the appeal of adolescent style macho swagger to base a political decision on. Trump is an entertainer with a fan club...The GOP will never nominate him btw, that's just not how the neocons roll.

Plus The Donald is a member of a Union and the Republicans hate unions.

www.hollywoodreporter.com...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is no solid reason to vote for any candidate because none of the ever do as the promise whole campaigning.
That is why Trump has my support. He is different than everyone else running.
It's like I said before.. Everyone is tired of being screwed by Washington and the crooks who run the country.
To me, that is substantive enough.
Since you brought it up, you haven't given anything, as or more substantial than I have, to not to give him support, unless I missed it.
I'm sure you have many.. seeing how your an informed voter and all that.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is no solid reason to vote for any candidate because none of the ever do as the promise whole campaigning.
That is why Trump has my support. He is different than everyone else running.

This isn't true at all. There are many online outlets you can use to check campaign promises that various politicians have kept. You may want to check up on them before saying something like this.

It's like I said before.. Everyone is tired of being screwed by Washington and the crooks who run the country.
To me, that is substantive enough.

And it's like I said before, I know all this. You STILL aren't giving me anything substantive to convince me to vote for Trump, and now you are saying that substance doesn't matter (because politicians lie) so go for Trump.

Since you brought it up, you haven't given anything, as or more substantial than I have, to not to give him support, unless I missed it.

Yes I have... I already discussed both his Mexican wall and his Muslim ban. You ignored that to tell me the same thing three times in a row.

I'm sure you have many.. seeing how your an informed voter and all that.

You should try reading the thread before switching to sarcasm, mate.

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh but KS...don't you know? If Trump insults a candidate...he is pointing out truth! He is "shaking the system up!"

If Trump decided he wanted to ban Muslim practices...he is "ensuring safety!" I guarantee you that if tomorrow, Obama found some actual method to make Muslim/Islam practice illegal, the same people who would normally say "finally we are safe!" would be saying, "I can't believe Obummer is once again taking away our freedoms!"

If Trump was elected 2008 and came up with the ACA ( I know he wouldn't...) but if he did, it would be heralded as the greatest achievement in humanity!

It's always like this and it always will be. Each side does the EXACT SAME CRAP. Yet when the other side does it, they are evil and taking 'muh freedom.' And for those who spit conservative fire...please look to where I said BOTH sides before you flip your lid

Now...if we want actual reasons instead of insults...here they are

A Muslim database? Unconstitutional...unless we get a Christian one, Jewish one, Pagan/Wiccan one. Still unconstitutional.

Then he steps back and pulls out of the comment. Which is good...but wishy washy...you know...just like people said about Oabama

The Mexican wall? Completely against what America stands for...you know...the one where we invaded and took over then told everyone to stop coming here illegally.

I won't run third party: But he will remain "open" to the idea. Which if he really wants Republicans to win, he is screwing them hard by running third party despite him saying earlier that he will fully endorse the final Republican candidate.

Mexicans are rapists: Straight up racism and generalities abound!

The 9/11 cheering by the thousands: debunked numerous times

"I'm using my own money..." Except where people have to pay money for his hats to fund his campaign and the part where he got 4 million from "unsolicited donations." Even if "unsolicited," where is the part again where he is only spending his money?

And look....before you flip again....the Dems do this manner of lying and backtracking as well....so quit jumping on the bias, partisan wagon and for once look around you with your so-called "awakened mind" and realize that your glorious Trump is just as bad a liar and cheater as the rest of them

Actually, you twist some of those quotes and you know it. If it's human, moves it's lips, it lies. If no further than hyperbole.

Ok, all of them 'lie'. So what's your point? You seem to ignore ours. He's, AT THE LEAST, no where near as 'bought' as the rest. He outside the 'network' despite the attempts to label him a corporate pin-up. He's pissed off with the lot of them and he'd break the 'rules' in an attempt to fix. That's a damn site better than breaking the rules to feed TPTB.

He resonates. None of the rest do.

Does it make for a good president? Who knows?

I outright don't trust the rest. That leaves Trump by default. It is what it is.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

And it's like I said before, I know all this. You STILL aren't giving me anything substantive to convince me to vote for Trump, and now you are saying that substance doesn't matter (because politicians lie) so go for Trump.

Yes I have... I already discussed both his Mexican wall and his Muslim ban. You ignored that to tell me the same thing three times in a row.

Sounds fun. I'll check out some of the promises kept/not kept sometime.

I never said substance doesn't matter or try and convince you to 'go for Trump'
I have only been saying why I support him. They are my reasons and the are substantial enough for me.
There is probably nothing in the world substantial enough for you to 'go for Trump'

I'll give you credit on the Muslim ban. Definitely something that could (and probably should) turn a lot of potential voters away from him. That was not a good thing to say, but it worked for him nonetheless.
The Mexican wall though, I don't understand how offering up a possible, potentially helpful solution to illegal immigration would be something to completely turn off voters.

The GOP will never nominate him btw, that's just not how the neocons roll.

This really is the crux of the matter, isn't it?

I mean, Bernie Sanders' supporters are living in the same land of delusion. If you think there's any way in hell the DNC will nominate anyone BUT Hillary at this point....you're just nuts.

Thing is, the GOP knows it doesn't stand a chance this election, and they know they can't do jack about it. So of course, do the powers that be behind the scenes, so they can't even give us the "illusion" of choice this time.

Even if Trump DOESN'T run independently (after he is rebuffed by the GOP at the Convention)....the GOP candidate (looking more and more like a Cruz/Rubio ticket) has no chance at all.

The only reason I actually like Trump is that he's totally throwing off the game of the puppet masters. Either that, or he really is a pawn and we've all been had all along. Which is equally possible. Any way you slice it, it keeps things interesting. I'm not sure which would be more disastrous, the inevitable Hillary term, or a Trump term. I'd kind of like to see what he could do, but I'm also realistic in realizing that it simply won't happen.

Though really, a vote for Trump is basically like thumbing your nose at the establishment, and saying, "Bah, we reject your two choices! Take that!".......

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

I gave you a star because you are one of the few trump supporters who not only has remained relatively civil with me but has also acknowledged a failing of his. The civil part is cool, but you are literally the first Trump supporter I've seen acknowledge that the Muslim idea was a poor choice of words. So kudos to that.

The thing about the Mexican wall though is that the premise isn't realistic. There is no feasible way we could make Mexico pay to build the wall. Some people talk about withholding aid money to them, well ok, say that works. Do you honestly think that Mexico would put forth a decent effort to build something like that for us? I mean there's a reason we don't make criminals build the prisons that house them you know?

a reply to: nwtrucker

and that to me is fair enough. The problem I have is the idea of quote twisting.

He said he wanted a Muslim database. He said he wanted a wall. He said he would not use funds and he is now. He said he won't run third party but is now open to it.

He does a fine job twisting and reneging his own words

The problem we have, if we ALL step back from Trump, is that they all lie, etc, etc...and you're right. Knowing what I say is true, that they all lie, changes nothing unless we act. Strong point for you by pointing that out

and if your beliefs bring you to trump being the least of the bad, then of course, vote away. Of course, I would never be a person to try and tell someone to vote a certain way anyway...but you get my point

The one and only thing I just can't get next to is not believing he is a corporate poster boy. The man practically IS a corporation. I have a real hard time thinking that a guy who owns them will be so willing to make life harder for corporations. He has tons of them. The man made his money and I am fine with that. He made it happen. But to say that he isn't a corporate poster boy just because his supporters say so...that's just plain alien to me.

And I know I will catch crap for this...but I am doing it anyway.

Hiram Evans was the Imperial Wizard of the KKK. He was a racist piece of you know what. But his supporters said, "he isn't racist...he is just divine and following God's will. He isn't racist, he's just being honest/real/etc." And there are tons of other examples of people's supporters being way off despite pretty obvious views.

Now opinion is of course always welcome. If the supporters think he isn't then so be it...but I can't stand by and think it isn't so when his last name is practically LLC just because the people who believe in him won't say it

Thanks

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: nwtrucker

and that to me is fair enough. The problem I have is the idea of quote twisting.

He said he wanted a Muslim database. He said he wanted a wall. He said he would not use funds and he is now. He said he won't run third party but is now open to it.

He does a fine job twisting and reneging his own words

The problem we have, if we ALL step back from Trump, is that they all lie, etc, etc...and you're right. Knowing what I say is true, that they all lie, changes nothing unless we act. Strong point for you by pointing that out

and if your beliefs bring you to trump being the least of the bad, then of course, vote away. Of course, I would never be a person to try and tell someone to vote a certain way anyway...but you get my point

The one and only thing I just can't get next to is not believing he is a corporate poster boy. The man practically IS a corporation. I have a real hard time thinking that a guy who owns them will be so willing to make life harder for corporations. He has tons of them. The man made his money and I am fine with that. He made it happen. But to say that he isn't a corporate poster boy just because his supporters say so...that's just plain alien to me.

And I know I will catch crap for this...but I am doing it anyway.

Hiram Evans was the Imperial Wizard of the KKK. He was a racist piece of you know what. But his supporters said, "he isn't racist...he is just divine and following God's will. He isn't racist, he's just being honest/real/etc." And there are tons of other examples of people's supporters being way off despite pretty obvious views.

Now opinion is of course always welcome. If the supporters think he isn't then so be it...but I can't stand by and think it isn't so when his last name is practically LLC just because the people who believe in him won't say it

Thanks

What he wants and what can legally do is another thing altogether. The data base comment? probably wishful thinking. Perhaps, just an honest desire.

From my understanding, the third party comment was based on a perceived 'unfair' treatment by the Republican Party after the fact of the no-third party agreement. In his view, any pact between himself and the republican Party is broken by the Party, not him. What he has done is 'warned the republican party not to push it, he HAS the option. That, my friend is the sign of one smart 'negotiator', in my opinion.

So what with the damn wall, that's been on the 'books' for years now. It was 'started back in the Bush administration and even added to, I believe, a little during the Obama reign.

Poster boy. Damn it, expand your viewpoint a bit on this. One, he is a Corporate man. That doesn't make him a 'Corporate poster boy'. Use the same logic on the Socialist poster boy or the legal poster boy for any Lawyer running. about the same logic. Quit buying into the slick, very slick left positioning. ( In this case add in the republican Establishment AND the media!)

By the way, Gov't IS a 'Corporation' and has about the same moral level...) Ours SUCKS.

Money? Again your gonna need a verbatim quote, in context, for me to buy into that 'claim'. He is allowed to change his mind, last time I checked.( short of any further information that I'm unaware of.)

Therefore, your rhetoric of reneging isn't even close to valid, from my perspective.

Last, I don't give a rat's ass what others than Trump says about Trump. The head of the KKK? Really? That dude has any influence in your decision process ?? Anything, ANYTHING that puts him in a bad light will get massive media exposure and I'm sure not taking media embellishments as any 'gospel' regarding Trump.

Do you doubt that any scandal that sat in Trump's backyard wouldn't already have been exposed and trumpeted around the world? Not a one. His kids all look fine and every bit as good, if not better than the rest.

To be clear, I have no idea whether or not Trump will be a good president. I no longer have ANY trust of the machine that is D.C.. None. That may be an overreaction on my part, so be it.

Trey Gowdy's endorsement of Rubio was the last straw. a pox on all of them, collateral damage or not.

Trump by default.

a reply to: nwtrucker


Last, I don't give a rat's ass what others than Trump says about Trump.



Trump by default.

The quotes, to me, still point to a person who I can't trust

As for THIS quote....YOU were the one who brought it up

Your labelling him a poster child for corporate America when, in fact, the perception of Trump is the exact opposite amongst his supporters....A poster boy for corporate America?? Not even close to reality, at least in perception.

Is what you said...that to me gives the impression that his supporters voices mattered...the used the word perception. So YOUR perception, and his supporter's perceptions can be just as faulty

You call him brilliant...myself and many others call him ridiculous and clueless. What exactly makes your opinion the one that counts

Then you say...

Last, I don't give a rat's ass what others than Trump says about Trump.

So we have seen that he has lied....and the GOP/Cons talk about Obama's lies all day...but somehow Trump is the one honest one? You even responded earlier that

Ok, everyone lies...so what

THAT IS MY POINT! He lies...we see it...we've got records of it and you yourself are admitting here that they all do. I am not trying to say Bernie or Hillary doesn't....they ALL do. But with everything here, I can't fathom why you'd find it so hard to believe that he could very well be exactly the poster boy when...

1. He is the LLC/Corporation King - Makes me feel like he would be stupid not to protect his own interests

2. He lies - Making it real clear that he could just as easily lie about his character...you know...how like every other President has done before

and...

3. the fact alone that it is a perception and nothing else and that while you may not call it a campaign, he is either campaigning or at the very least pre-campaigning and positioning - Making it just like every other lying sack that gets on the podium or who actually wins the White House...which you admitted to yourself

Like I said...you can always have your opinion and vote...I just can't fathom the vitriol thrown back when it's clear as day that he does lie and his supporters are very much caught up in his words...much like Obama's supporters were

either way...totally fine with me

also...

He has the media, the left AND the right scared spitless and his supporters LOVE IT. That now includes millennials...

Believe me...we are ok....

a reply to: KyoZero

You see what you want. I see what I want. Where the truth lies? Neither of us knows for sure.

The perception that Trump is outside TPTB is just that, a perception. The truth will only unfold IF he's elected. That isn't exactly a shoe-in. My point was if you think calling him a liar when Hillary, the media and now even Sanders is proven disingenuous-nothing new to me-is where you will gain no traction other than those that already don't like him.

For your camp, he's the hated Corporate Poster boy. For his supporters, a whole different view. An outsider, a man that speaks his mind, not that of a pollster's edit. A successful businessman offering himself to try to fix a virtually sunken ship.

We shall see.

a reply to: nwtrucker

There are other political considerations .....

Trump is attacking other presidential candidates in the GOP. In fact creating finger pointing and turmoil in the Republican party. It's even evident here locally between T fans and the party faithful.
If Trump isn't a Trojan horse in the party, he sure acts like it, weakening the GOP by fragmenting the conservative message and turning the whole election process into more of a circus than it already is. Ask yourself...who really benefits from this BS. The dembs are comfortable to just sit by and watch Trump do all the heavy lifting for them.

Is this a logical senario...after the Donald bails, many of his fans will just say **** it, and not bother to vote.
Politics is filled with conspiracies... I think this qualifies as one.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: nwtrucker

There are other political considerations .....

Trump is attacking other presidential candidates in the GOP. In fact creating finger pointing and turmoil in the Republican party. It's even evident here locally between T fans and the party faithful.
If Trump isn't a Trojan horse in the party, he sure acts like it, weakening the GOP by fragmenting the conservative message and turning the whole election process into more of a circus than it already is. Ask yourself...who really benefits from this BS. The dembs are comfortable to just sit by and watch Trump do all the heavy lifting for them.

Is this a logical senario...after the Donald bails, many of his fans will just say **** it, and not bother to vote.
Politics is filled with conspiracies... I think this qualifies as one.

I see it the other way around. the attacks by Jeb Bush, the betrayal by Gowdy in support of the heir apparent to the GOP Establishment , Rubio. I suspect your view is pure Establishment. The biggest 'bailers' of promises always made and never kept, Republican Party.

No, Trump doesn't play well with others. Perhaps he does bail, as you say, perhaps merely defeated. In any event, the mass that IS disaffected with the status quo weren't created by Trump. They were created by the assholes in Congress sucking the teats of donators.

Add in the Dems and the media...it makes him resonate even more...you figure it out. It will never be the same again. One way or the other. Change IS coming,

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: infolurker

I'd like to point out that Trump isn't a conservative. Of course he isn't a liberal either. He is what is referred to as a narcissist.

Well we've had that for the last 8 years. If Trump can deliver and make America great again, he can be whatever he wants within the confines of the law

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: infolurker

I'd like to point out that Trump isn't a conservative. Of course he isn't a liberal either. He is what is referred to as a narcissist.

Well we've had that for the last 8 years. If Trump can deliver and make America great again, he can be whatever he wants within the confines of the law

But all of his plans are outside the confines of the law...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm glad we can agree to disagree. I felt like it was getting hard for us there for a minute.

The wall. The way I see it, the best way to make them pay for it would be to hold the jobs American companies outsource to them.
Most big American manufacturing companies have plants in Mexico. One of the first things Trump talked about, that really sparked my interest, was the fact that he wanted to bring manufacturing jobs (US companies) back to the US and out of Mexico, China, ect.
Using taxes as a reward/penalty for companies who keep their jobs in the US as opposed to outsourcing, taking away the incentive of using cheap labor and at the same time, bolstering the middle class by bringing back thousands upon thousands of good paying skilled labor jobs.
There will be one area were that rule will not apply. Companies who build components of this wall.
That company will do it the way these large manufacturing companies do it now.
Cheap labor and low overhead by building below the border.
They won't necessarily 'pay for it' but they will build it and make the US money at the same time.
Trumps such a lil slickster that his ass will probably own the company responsible for the manufacture of the wall lol

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

I highly doubt that things would ever work out like you are describing. All that sounds good in theory, but I can see how such plans would go bad VERY quickly. Did you know that NAFTA had a worse effect on the Mexican economy than it did on the US one?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Wishful thinking, I know.
I was not aware of NAFTA's effect on the Mexican economy.
I do know that the company I work for builds a lot of jobs for Magna Powertrain and similar companies and I have to ship them to Mexico, then we have to send servicemen and builder down there to help with the machine. It is a very big hassle and does not seem necessary to me.
Call me greedy, but those jobs should be where they started and where they belong. If they were, cities like Flint, Detroit, Cleveland, ect. would not be in as bad of shape as they are today.
Bringing these jobs home would be the best start to ending a long list of problems, socially and economically that politicians whine about, but do nothing to prevent or help.
Maybe, just maybe, a shake up in Washington, with an outsider such as Trump, these issues can be brought to light and solved.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Wishful thinking, I know.
I was not aware of NAFTA's effect on the Mexican economy.
I do know that the company I work for builds a lot of jobs for Magna Powertrain and similar companies and I have to ship them to Mexico, then we have to send servicemen and builder down there to help with the machine. It is a very big hassle and does not seem necessary to me.

After 20 Years, NAFTA Leaves Mexico’s Economy in Ruins

Call me greedy, but those jobs should be where they started and where they belong. If they were, cities like Flint, Detroit, Cleveland, ect. would not be in as bad of shape as they are today.
Bringing these jobs home would be the best start to ending a long list of problems, socially and economically that politicians whine about, but do nothing to prevent or help.
Maybe, just maybe, a shake up in Washington, with an outsider such as Trump, these issues can be brought to light and solved.

But that is how a free market economy works. Sometimes it becomes economically unviable to continue to operate in an area so you go elsewhere. Forcing the jobs to come back to those areas is government intervention of the economy.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Indeed.
It's just sad that the common working class citizen is the victim of corporations exploiting cheap labor and leaving entire cities in ruin.
Flint especially. If you ever have the time and desire, check out the history of Flint, Michigan.
The city completely fell apart after GM closed its doors there. There other examples of this type of thing.

In cases like those, maybe government intervention is a good thing. Taking jobs away from working class citizens and giving them to foreign workers should come with a hefty penalty. In my opinion, so hefty, that it would cost companies more money to do so. Not to mention that these savings are not passed down to the consumer, so what we are left with is, people with jobs and less money to buy a car that was made cheaper, but costs the same.
The people running the country now will never give middle class citizens a fair shake