Could the Oak Island Money Pit be the Retrieval Pit?

a reply to: Charizard

The show is a business so if they do wind up hitting the mother load, that is pretty much the end of the show if it happens in real time. In that regard, I am sure that scenario has been worked out ahead of time, since the HC is essentially the bottomless "money pit" for all the excavation and everyone's salary.. and more importantly, the revenue from advertisers to keep this whole ball rolling.

They are going to milk it to the max, and rightfully so, since they are the only reason that this expensive treasure hunt has funding. I think we can understand this situation and live with it , because in any other private enterprise, we would not be in the loop at all.

Obviously, as the OP, I am leaning towards the treasure already recovered, based upon everything I have said through the thread, but deep down, I want to be wrong.

What a great argument you have made here. I never thought about this before but I make sense. I actually think the biggest money maker in this entire situation is the advertisers and these 2 brothers who are actually making money off this pit, versus losing all of it in a desperate bid to find something down there. There isn't anything there to find. It was either never there to begin with, or it has been long ago taken away. Today these 2 guys have figured out the best way to make money. They found the gold in the television series. Thats the real goldmine and I applaud them for figuring this out in the new digital world. Smart guys!

originally posted by: charlyv
Occasionally, when I have some time to kill, I like thinking of scenarios that could have taken place in the construction of the Money Pit. One came up the other day that is a bit disturbing, as it would mean the the treasure has long been recovered.

The thing that bothers me about the whole story, is the the initial account of how Daniel McGinnis came upon the clearing on the hill. He came across a curious circular depression in the ground. Standing over this depression was a tree whose branches were cut and reportedly, there was block and tackle hanging over the area from a large oak branch.

Now, think about this for a moment... With all the work, secrecy and planning that must have been involved by those that built this structure... why would you leave such evidence behind?

Is it possible, that this was the egress point, where the treasure was removed, and not a hole that was dug down... but dug upward? In McGinnis's account, two feet below the surface they came across of layer of flagstones covering the pit. At 10 feet down they ran into a layer of oak logs spanning the pit. Again at 20 feet and 30 feet they found the same thing, a layer of logs and so-on until it flooded.

I wonder if the actual treasure was in the area between the flagstones and the first platform.

This would mean the the original tunnel was started somewhere else, perhaps in the swamp area. It would have been dug on an angle downward towards the hill and then straight up. The log platforms could have been part of the cribbing for the vertical shaft, as they dug upward, the treasure was secured on the platforms they would build, and from there just keep going up until about 10 feet from the surface, where they deposited the treasure on the last platform and roofed it with flagstones.

This also means that they had a way of going back down. When first excavated, so much damage was done digging out the money pit that that perhaps they missed a side shaft adjacent to the piles of log platforms where the builders could have had ladders and pulley systems to hoist the treasure, and when done, just back out. This would have left a completely undisturbed area, with no signs of any digging.

Once back at the original downward shaft, they put in the booby traps from the swamp and cove at a higher angle upward to intersect the vertical shaft, but still below sea level. it was not meant to trap anyone digging down, but prevent anyone that had found the original entrance from getting any higher. It would mean that the original entrance may be in the swamp area, and they build a coffer dam to temporarily keep the sea away from the excavation. Once completed, they removed the coffer dam and let the swamp area fill in with water, covering everything.

The triangle stones and markers that were found point to the money pit. Why would they point to a place that was not designed to retrieve the treasure? That was where they would come back, erect a pulley system, dig down 10 or so feet and retrieve it.

After being retrieved, they could probably care less what the site looked like other than to fill back in the first 10 feet of soil. They would not care about removing the pulley block and tackle or any other evidence, because they had what they were after. It would make sense that there would be a depression in the ground as well.

Additionally, having the excavation area at or near sea level, in the swamp area, would have made it much easier to dump the fill removed from the tunnels into the ocean, instead of dragging it all down the hill, towards Smith's cover and then dump it farther out to sea.

Anyway, developing this scenario was an exercise in trying to come up with a reason why it has been so hard to find. Perhaps it is long gone... I kind of hope that is not the case, but there is some logic in this theory. I am sure others have also speculated along these lines so I doubt this is an original idea.

It does ignore some of the other findings, like the stone tablet found at 90 ft, but we do not have that original piece, nor do we really know if the symbols purportedly copied down were original, or it was hoaxed. It has too much of a simile to Poe's "Gold Bug", as it was the exact same type of cypher, and very easy to translate using the method outlined by Poe. As for other evidence, like gold chain and parchment, where exactly are those items today?

Irregardless of actually finding a treasure, I do believe it was once there, and there is still not enough evidence to discount the fact that it still might be there. Finding the truth in this is exciting, and I think the answer is probably going to be revealed very soon.

So, ATS peoples... do you think this possibility has any merit, or does it fly in the face of what has already been "discovered" ?

a reply to: Reverbs

What is poe's gold bug and cypher?

Anyone interested in cryptography just has to read Edgar Allen Poe's "The Gold Bug".
After you read it, consider the accounts of the buried stone at OI, purportedly discovered at 90' in the pit.
The similarities to method are amazing, and also considering that the original "decipher" of that stone and when "Gold Bug" was written are within 10 years of each other. Which one influenced who? Great stuff.

a reply to: oldschool1959

Thanks.
Yes, those brothers are certainly some "Smart Guys".

I consider this last episode one of the best so far. Episode 12 really left everyone hanging for a season finale, but it has some great revelations. The expert diver Don Chatterton in 10x and company have made it to the lower chamber. Also, some most likely man made metal artifact was found in the drill tailings at the original money pit. Add to that that the drill at the money pit hit solid rock at 140 feet, then fell 7 feet, bored through wood and soil another few feet and then fell through a 17 foot chamber....

A very interesting finale to season 3 is surely coming up.


Added: Forgot this incident also, Lynn Walsh, the Grandaughter of Maynard Kaiser who was killed in the money pit in 1947, visits the Island and claims that the body was never recovered. Just wow.

The amount of time they waste on "re-caps" is driving me crazy...

According to the story told by the McGinnis relatives, my theory got a bit of legs, as they claim that Daniel McGinnis and his brothers actually found treasure at 30 ft. They showed a gold cross passed down through the family. Lot of conjecture here, as it is undocumented in the recorded history, as little as there is.

Turns out, they are extending the finale of the season until this coming Tuesday. 10x was a bust, but the expert diver said there was a tunnel..
but also said he thought the chamber under the borehole could be a natural cavity, except he said he saw holes in the floor that were sucking debris and water downward. The eye is again on the pit.

a reply to: charlyv

What do you think the shiny thing in the void is? It looks like it could be gold, but I don't know. They have to excavate 18 stories deep and that is a huge operation to undertake. I couldn't even imagine how long it would take to do something like that back in the 1800's.

I think it's going to be a bust and the shiny metal object in the void is some kind of contamination.

originally posted by: gpols
a reply to: charlyv

What do you think the shiny thing in the void is? It looks like it could be gold, but I don't know. They have to excavate 18 stories deep and that is a huge operation to undertake. I couldn't even imagine how long it would take to do something like that back in the 1800's.

I think it's going to be a bust and the shiny metal object in the void is some kind of contamination.

I think it was too shiny to be anything but some kind of metal, but it is down further than anyone has gone... it will be interesting.

a reply to: charlyv

Obviously I don't know anything about archaeology, excavation or anything like that, but what would it take to dig a hole like that with primitive tools?

The story the McGinnis' told with that gold cross made it clear there was definitely a treasure on the island at one time and it sounds like the original McGinnis' that found the treasure knew what they were doing by keeping their mouths shut and not telling anyone they found any treasure to begin with.

a reply to: gpols

There are underground cities in Europe, Turkey and China that are over 1000 years old. The tunnels go multilevel and go on for miles.
Derinkuyu - WP
Cappadocia

I wonder if they could use that same drill hole shaft to lower and articulated vacuum hose (with attached camera) to find the yellow shiny object, and attempt to dig it out and suck it up the shaft without extensive digging. At least get that thing uncovered more, or better to the surface. If it is a man made gold item that is dated to the period, then that would better justify the expense of a more intense and wider dig.

a reply to: charlyv

One thing is for sure. It's going to be a very interesting season. I hope they can keep it all under wraps if they do find something. It'd ruin the show if it hits the media before it can air.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
I wonder if they could use that same drill hole shaft to lower and articulated vacuum hose (with attached camera) to find the yellow shiny object, and attempt to dig it out and suck it up the shaft without extensive digging. At least get that thing uncovered more, or better to the surface. If it is a man made gold item that is dated to the period, then that would better justify the expense of a more intense and wider dig.

A current technology metal detector head would be able to tell if it was Gold or Silver at that range. They could attach it to the same rig that the camera was on. Wonder if they will do that first.

Not such an impressive ending for OA this year, but there were some accomplishments.

Remembering one of the brothers quoting Edison... as all the operations that did not go right were not failures, but were rather successful in determining what they were not.

The golden object is definitely the starter for the next season, including the origin of the golden cross.

Till then...

a reply to: gpols

Man has built pyramids in South America and Egypt thousands of years before anyone would of been at Oak. Just suggesting big things are possible..why not a very elaborate tunnel system.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: gpols

Man has built pyramids in South America and Egypt thousands of years before anyone would of been at Oak. Just suggesting big things are possible..why not a very elaborate tunnel system.

In this case, I would think only in the context of how elaborate it had to be to hide the treasure.
It would not have been designed for any kind of habitation, unless it was not a money pit at all, which is in the fringe area theories.