Downed Russian SU-24 black box first information

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

in fact i said they probably just witnessed opening the box.

Why? Putin asked the Brits to examine the box, didn't he?

They would simply leave if only allowed to take a short glimpse from a distance. Your point doesn't make any sense at all. Ok, maybe it does, but I can't see it yet. Care to elaborate?

a reply to: sosobad

"In order to ensure maximal transparency and openness, we addressed foreign experts from 14 countries with an invitation to take part in the work [investigation] as observers. However, many specialists refused to participate in the investigation citing various reasons, excluding only Liu Chang Wei from China and Jonathan Gillespie from the United Kingdom," Dronov said, according to Tass.

The mere fact that only 2 of the countries came to partake in this investigation has some heavy implications. Even if they would have suspicion of tampering, they have no way of taking this position without being there.

It hints at this being another attempt of getting Russia to give NATO a reason to take escalate things further. As their puppet army Daesh is being systematically wiped out we can expect to see more desperate moves being made, kind of like Turkey invading Iraq.

Imagine if a non-NATO country had done something like this to a NATO country, my god the cries for WAR would be deafening

a reply to: Ploutonas

These 2 statements kind of directly contradict each other

“At present we can say that we have all the necessary info at our disposal: we do have proof that the Russian Su-24 did not violate the Turkish air space,” Dronov said, according to Sputnik News.

Dronov also said that the flight data recorder of the downed jet is damaged, and “deciphering flight data will be held with use of special equipment. Until now no work has been done with the black box. It is in the same condition as it was found at the crash site.,” Dronov said, according to Sputnik News.

Dronov also said that the flight data recorder of the downed jet is damaged, and “deciphering flight data will be held with use of special equipment. Until now no work has been done with the black box. It is in the same condition as it was found at the crash site."

I think it's too soon to jump to any conclusions.

a reply to: sosobad

you said the weren't manipulating the data, the OP first link said the black box shows it didn't cross, the other links say they haven't got the information yet. my point is the, first link says they had proof form the box the second and third say they didn't.

in my first post i said

so you have one link saying they have data from the box, and one saying that it is damaged and special equipment is needed to work on it and it is just as they found it at the crash site.

i just figured people could put two and twp together.

Look at it this way. If a British surface to air missile shot down an American plane, you can guarantee that Britain will be racing to apologise and make amends for the incident, even if the American plane was out of bounds. Because obviously, they will want to maintain their diplomatic relationship.

Turkey took a big dump on Russia. The Russian government does not like to be shat upon.

So we have a sh*t flinging contest that could so easily have been avoided.

Add to this, Turkey's killing of Western journalists (Serena Shim, USA; Jacqueline Sutton, UK), conveniently after Shim had exposed Turkey's support of Islamic State, and we have something funny going on. The West is behaving like pussies, no offence. I mean, f*ck all was done to achieve justice for the slain journalists. Something smells wrong here. To put it in Aussie terms, Turkey is sus as.

Please excuse my language, I just love to swear.

a reply to: elementalgrove

we can expect to see more desperate moves being made, kind of like Turkey invading Iraq.
Imagine if a non-NATO country had done something like this to a NATO country, my god I can only imagine the cries for blood.

Funny they way they label anything Russia does as Russian aggression but when Turkey knowingly enters Iraq without their permission it's a "dispute". Double talk and lies, the house of cards will fall.

a reply to: sosobad

It is a funny thing.

The Western media can be summed up with the words of former CIA director William Casey

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."

a reply to: Vector99

I think it's too soon to jump to any conclusions.

I disagree. Ever played Poker? Would you call the hand of your opponent while throwing your cards on the table if you don't hold anything?

Vlad would make a laughingstock out of himself if the blackbox-data doesn't support his 'other evidence'. We're not jumping to anything, he is out on a limb here. And given his trackrecord there has to be something, otherwise he wouldn't invite Nato.

Captain Obvious, innit?

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So? Is the data going to be manipulated whether it's been examined or yet to be examined? Are you saying it is? My post was about the specialists from Britain and China being there. You mean to tell me you've gone on for 2 pages about my grammar?

a reply to: sosobad

no it will probably be found missing, or to corrupted to read.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: sosobad

no it will probably be found missing, or to corrupted to read.

And there will be two independent experts from Britain and China to verify it if it does end up being too damaged, what's so hard to understand about that?

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Vector99

I think it's too soon to jump to any conclusions.

I disagree. Ever played Poker? Would you call the hand of your opponent while throwing your cards on the table if you don't hold anything?

Vlad would make a laughingstock out of himself if the blackbox-data doesn't support his 'other evidence'. We're not jumping to anything, he is out on a limb here. And given his trackrecord there has to be something, otherwise he wouldn't invite Nato.

Captain Obvious, innit?

There are no official sources saying that. Here is what RT says

The boards were locked in a safe after extraction. The commission said a preliminary report into their findings may be expected Monday.

Link
Me thinks you fell for propaganda.

a reply to: sosobad

why the hell are you trying to to spin the narrative. i never said they weren't there and never said they verified any thing or didn't. go back and read my posts, in fact your the one who claimed they had proof from the 5 out of 8 cards.

what i said is the russians are saying two different things and therefore are lying in one of them, or as you say "manipulating the data".

so to make it clear there is no proof that their aircraft did or didn't crossed over from the black box. they are saying two different things going by the OP's links, therefore they are indeed manipulating the story / data by saying two different things.

People lets remember this is a developing real time story and also the lack of journalistic integrity in the world. Every time the media presents a story like this you have to know the misrepresentation of the situation has often nothing to do with the stories subject. It doesn't mean Russia is lying or a giant conspiracy is going on. It usually just means the media is just pumping out what ever small bit of info they think they have. Just look at the quality and even fake research studies they print without contemplating or researching the sources.

No matter the outcome Turkey made a dumb move. There isn't a single other NATO nation who have acted as Turkey did.

I have every right to shoot a twelve year old breaking in my garrage as a responsible gun owner however, Its my obligation to examine the situation and what it presents to my own danger. Sure I can shoot the kid and make up a story after protecting myself under the law. At the end of the day I killed someone who presented no risk to myself and his family has to deal with it.

Turkey and its regime are more of a danger IMO to the ideals of liberty than even Russia. Thats pretty bad.

originally posted by: luthier


I have every right to shoot a twelve year old breaking in my garrage as a responsible gun owner however, Its my obligation to examine the situation and what it presents to my own danger. Sure I can shoot the kid and make up a story after protecting myself under the law. At the end of the day I killed someone who presented no risk to myself and his family has to deal with it.

How dare you attempt to bring logic into this situation!

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Let's get this straight, you have a problem with the op, then in turn jump on my post because I posted evidence that there is experts from 2 different countries also there. You have contributed nothing to this thread except for to cause derailment for 3 pages.Once again he never said the evidence was from the black box. Now for the last time if you've a problem with the OP take it up with the OP. If you have any problem with my orignal post stating that the two independent experts are there then tell me now otherwise why are you posting to me?

originally posted by: elementalgrove

originally posted by: luthier


I have every right to shoot a twelve year old breaking in my garrage as a responsible gun owner however, Its my obligation to examine the situation and what it presents to my own danger. Sure I can shoot the kid and make up a story after protecting myself under the law. At the end of the day I killed someone who presented no risk to myself and his family has to deal with it.

How dare you attempt to bring logic into this situation!

Truly

We can argue all day long the law. This is a situation where you have to ask yourself what the ideology behind the action is. Does your culture respect human life and their liberty? In the case of both russia and turkey we can say not really. The levels of this are different though. Russia isn't dumb enough to just come out and say they shot and killed someone else's pilots they at least understand most of the west doesn't share their ideology.

Turkey however suckes the west into their own savage ideals by making NATO defend their actions while thumbing their noses at a giant.

We are getting played by Turkey and everyone defending them should know this. Their government is tyranical by far the worst since WW2

a reply to: luthier


In my lifetime my country of origin(USA) has been the aggressor all across the globe not giving a damn about human life, our foreign policy is atrocious.

NATO as a whole does not give a damn about human life either. All one needs to do is look to Operation Gladio A and B to understand this. Most people are unaware of Gladio A and hardly anyone who has, has no idea about Gladio B.

I recommend researching this, Turkey is fundamental in NATO's Operation Gladio B.

Here is a great place to start your research!

But today we’re going to be picking up from that to talk about specifically how Gladio unfolded and morphed into what it currently is in Turkey and how it’s operating — well, how it’s basically morphed into a different type of operation but is using a lot of the same strategies and methods to continue, well, moving into different areas such as false-flag terrorism in the Islamic terrorism context, and also drug-running. It’s, again, a huge subject to tackle. So perhaps we should start by talking about the way that the NATO stay-behind Gladio operation was transported to Turkey, and they way that it originally started there, as a ultranationalist — or a way to puppeteer the ultranationalists in their terrorist movement.

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: luthier


In my lifetime my country of origin(USA) has been the aggressor all across the globe not giving a damn about human life. our foreign policy is atrocious.

NATO as a whole does not give a damn about human life. All one needs to do is look to Operation Gladio A and B to understand this. Most people are unaware of Gladio A and hardly any on who is has no idea about Gladio B.

I recommend researching this, Turkey is fundamental in NATO's Gladio B.

Here is a great place to start your research!

But today we’re going to be picking up from that to talk about specifically how Gladio unfolded and morphed into what it currently is in Turkey and how it’s operating — well, how it’s basically morphed into a different type of operation but is using a lot of the same strategies and methods to continue, well, moving into different areas such as false-flag terrorism in the Islamic terrorism context, and also drug-running. It’s, again, a huge subject to tackle. So perhaps we should start by talking about the way that the NATO stay-behind Gladio operation was transported to Turkey, and they way that it originally started there, as a ultranationalist — or a way to puppeteer the ultranationalists in their terrorist movement.

Oh I understand that narrative as a definite possibility.

I don't even have to go there though.

What I am saying is NATO wouldn't do what Turkey has done. They know to SPIN the situation to get the public distracted. I understand that real possibility. Also the type of nation building and "aggression".

However they know and care what the public thinks enough to keep spinning. In the societies where NATO was founded they enjoy more personal liberty by far than Russia or Turkey. Is that because they are the rulers who knows.

I do know most of the west doesn't blatenly without subversion act tyranical because they can't just bring in tanks and stomp every protest we have.

My point? If given the choice of two evils I would rather live in a society you can if you want research information and talk about it fairly openly.

So I don't support outright fascism and ideology of this Turkish administration. Definetley don't trust them anywhere near say Germany or Poland and definetley don't think they should be in the EU or NATO without being forced to change the human rights issues in their government let alone the criminals running rampant.



Let's be honest we have no idea what NATO is doing either conspiratorily or in their official narrative. We can hold public records accountable at least. Turkey has a pretty bad one. So does Russia. So if we can critize Putin and co. Which we should then also Erdogan.

if the data recorder shows that turkey lied about even just one thing then turkey has lost credibility and everything they have said is suspect.
It`s just like in court, if a witness is caught telling one lie then everything they say is no longer credible because they are a proven liar.