A History of Socialism in America

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Freedom over your own earnings comes to mind right away.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So you are going to state, for the record, that we have more individual freedoms and liberties due to socialism than we had prior to it's inception?

Yes. I can't think of how we've lost any or which laws have stolen freedoms from us.

Man, I don't know what you're smoking, but I wish you'd share.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Freedom over your own earnings comes to mind right away.

So you have a problem with taxes? Why is that? Don't you understand that taxes are necessary? I mean if they weren't going to pay for social programs, they'd be going to pay for military or some other conservative means. So you clearly support taxation. You just don't support helping others with your taxes.

I don't like paying taxes as much as the next guy, but I also understand their necessity. It's just an inconvenience we all deal with and won't ever go away. Bringing up taxes as a freedom you lost is ridiculous. The government is allowed to tax you as per the Constitution.

a reply to: hubrisinxs

In another thread, I stated that all governments were basically the same. It's in their methods that they differ.

I'm a fan of very limited government, marginal government, tiny government.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Freedom over your own earnings comes to mind right away.

So you have a problem with taxes? Why is that? Don't you understand that taxes are necessary? I mean if they weren't going to pay for social programs, they'd be going to pay for military or some other conservative means. So you clearly support taxation. You just don't support helping others with your taxes.

Because government is wasteful. When govt is taking like 40% of my gross income every year, it makes you question what they are spending money on. It is easy to be for high taxes when you aren't the one paying them.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Freedom over your own earnings comes to mind right away.

So you have a problem with taxes? Why is that? Don't you understand that taxes are necessary? I mean if they weren't going to pay for social programs, they'd be going to pay for military or some other conservative means. So you clearly support taxation. You just don't support helping others with your taxes.

Because government is wasteful. When govt is taking like 40% of my gross income every year, it makes you question what they are spending money on. It is easy to be for high taxes when you aren't the one paying them.

We all pay taxes in some form. Don't pretend like even the poor don't pay taxes.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The poor pay no federal income taxes. In fact, many are actually paying negative tax rates in that they are getting money back in the form of refunds but not paying anything.

Payroll taxes aren't the same.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Freedom over your own earnings comes to mind right away.

So you have a problem with taxes? Why is that? Don't you understand that taxes are necessary? I mean if they weren't going to pay for social programs, they'd be going to pay for military or some other conservative means. So you clearly support taxation. You just don't support helping others with your taxes.

Because government is wasteful. When govt is taking like 40% of my gross income every year, it makes you question what they are spending money on. It is easy to be for high taxes when you aren't the one paying them.

You have a valid point. If government were actually responsible with the money they take from us, I'd have more faith and trust in it.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have a problem with a system in which roughly 47% of society lives off the earnings of the other 53%. I have no issue paying for taxes which go towards infrastructure, education*, police, etc. because I use those and feel ANYONE who uses them should be paying equally into them. Charity, however, begins at home. I detest paying for other people's obligations and responsibilities. I don't believe the tax payer should be mandated into responsibility for whether others are fed, clothed, housed, medicated, or otherwise cared for just because those people "exist." I do not believe that mere existence entitles anyone to a free ride on someone else's paycheck. I really don't give a damn if a document stating the Founding Fathers were all vocal socialists appeared, the system is a sham that demands some work their ass off, take their responsibilities seriously, and end up getting taxed heavily so that an ever growing cluster of people can be bought and paid for. To further that, it has created a pool of Kept Voters who are beholden to one party, the party which loves to spend the money others earned, and those Kept Voters are kept in a lifestyle which essentially ensures the Meal Ticket will not be voted against. It's a stacked deck and, frankly, it's getting to the point where there are days I'd like to see the whole things collapse just so the earners of America have the only voice that matters again (as it should be.)

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The poor pay no federal income taxes. In fact, many are actually paying negative tax rates in that they are getting money back in the form of refunds but not paying anything.

Payroll taxes aren't the same.

Sales tax, sin tax, capital gains taxes, estate tax, property tax, hotel tax. Heck here is a list of 97 different types of taxes and fees we pay. You'll be happy to notice that it is a conservative website at that too.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

But that isn't true. 47% of the population DON'T live of the earnings of the other 53%. They may not pay taxes, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are all on 100% government assistance though.

Also most of your post is just right wing talking points about why Socialism is the devil. It isn't exactly a refutation of Socialism and that it is destructive for society. It just shows that you are greedy with your money and don't want to share really.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Freedom over your own earnings comes to mind right away.

So you have a problem with taxes? Why is that? Don't you understand that taxes are necessary? I mean if they weren't going to pay for social programs, they'd be going to pay for military or some other conservative means. So you clearly support taxation. You just don't support helping others with your taxes.

Because government is wasteful. When govt is taking like 40% of my gross income every year, it makes you question what they are spending money on. It is easy to be for high taxes when you aren't the one paying them.

We all pay taxes in some form. Don't pretend like even the poor don't pay taxes.

Oh bullroar, man. Stats demonstrate that is a fallacy.
www.allenbwest.com...

As a matter of fact, according to a Congressional Budget Office study, as reported by CNS News, households in the bottom 40 percent of before-tax income ($41,000 and less) received an average of $18,950 in what the CBO called “government transfers” in 2010. However, the top 40 percent of households by before-tax income ($80,600 and up) actually paid 106.2 percent of the nation’s net income taxes.

and because I'm sure you'll question the sources, here's the CBO report itself:
www.cbo.gov...

$18,950 on average directed at the bottom 60% of the tax brackets... Hmmmmm, if that's "the poor paying their taxes" sign the rest of the country up for that program, please. In my world "paying" taxes leaves me with less money, not an $18k windfall.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Do you think our current government spends wisely?

And if not, why would you want to increase the amount of funds that they take?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
It just shows that you are greedy with your money and don't want to share really.

OF COURSE I DON'T WANT TO SHARE IT!!!! I'm the one who took hours out of my day to attend my goddamned job and EARN it!!! Jesus, Mary, and Joseph are we in effing kindergarten again? "Did you earn enough for the class today, Johnny?"

Explain this to me, please. How is it "greedy" to expect to retain as great a portion of the money you earned, but not greedy to have your hand out and demand that life owes you something when you've failed to do a flipping thing to earn it? Let me also ask you this, what happens when the money runs out at the top of the chain under your system? Need a hint, look at the USSR in the late 80s, early 90s. When your wells run dry and you've got a kept populace, bad ju-ju goes down real quick. Keep jacking that middle class and up golden goose, man, meanwhile more and more of them slide down the ladder and your pool to steal from keeps drying up. I don't want to live in that world, man.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The poor pay no federal income taxes. In fact, many are actually paying negative tax rates in that they are getting money back in the form of refunds but not paying anything.

Payroll taxes aren't the same.

Sales tax, sin tax, capital gains taxes, estate tax, property tax, hotel tax. Heck here is a list of 97 different types of taxes and fees we pay. You'll be happy to notice that it is a conservative website at that too.

Stop trying to mix and match... paying sales taxes, sin taxes, etc are not the same as paying federal income taxes. yes, we are taxed too much at the local level too but that really isn't the topic.

Thank you for the honesty and truth about Reagan.

I get so tired of hearing what a great president he was.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
It just shows that you are greedy with your money and don't want to share really.

OF COURSE I DON'T WANT TO SHARE IT!!!! I'm the one who took hours out of my day to attend my goddamned job and EARN it!!! Jesus, Mary, and Joseph are we in effing kindergarten again? "Did you earn enough for the class today, Johnny?"

Explain this to me, please. How is it "greedy" to expect to retain as great a portion of the money you earned, but not greedy to have your hand out and demand that life owes you something when you've failed to do a flipping thing to earn it? Let me also ask you this, what happens when the money runs out at the top of the chain under your system? Need a hint, look at the USSR in the late 80s, early 90s. When your wells run dry and you've got a kept populace, bad ju-ju goes down real quick. Keep jacking that middle class and up golden goose, man, meanwhile more and more of them slide down the ladder and your pool to steal from keeps drying up. I don't want to live in that world, man.

You have to love liberal logic. I'm greedy because I want to keep what I've earned, but they are not greedy for wanting to confiscate my wealth.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm happy to see that even you, celebrant of big government that you are, sees that Americans are overtaxed. That said, you can't say with a straight face that the poor are paying capital gains or estate taxes now, can you?

originally posted by: Edumakated
You have to love liberal logic. I'm greedy because I want to keep what I've earned, but they are not greedy for wanting to confiscate my wealth.

My children, aged 8 and 9, have a more realistic and mature understanding of economics and personal responsibility than many of those arguing for more handouts do.

My 9 year old son last week observed that we see the same guy standing on the same corner all day, every day with the same sign begging for money. His comment: "Why doesn't he use all this time to work instead of standing here, Daddy?" Daddy was proud as all hell.

""A History of Socialism in America"" ...

= some of the biggest and most devastating economic and social failures in the history of mankind.

The ongoing "growth" and "expansion" keeps getting worse.