Speeding is NOT a Crime, but Crashing Might Be

a reply to: akushla99
Your use of contract makes an obvious point that refutes the premise of the OP. Speed limits apply on public roads, if you choose to use those roads the you are accepting a contract that you have to obey the rules.
Surely even libertarians can't have a problem with that?

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: akushla99
Your use of contract makes an obvious point that refutes the premise of the OP. Speed limits apply on public roads, if you choose to use those roads the you are accepting a contract that you have to obey the rules.
Surely even libertarians can't have a problem with that?

Well, actually I do under most circumstances because I believe people have a basic right to travel without government infringement. I also disagree with the need for drivers licences and vehicle registration. You shouldn't need all that crap to travel the damn roads.

a reply to: Metallicus
You don't believe people should have to demonstrate basic competency or obey any rules while controlling two tons of metal capable of going over a hundred mph?

originally posted by: Metallicus
I believe people have a basic right to travel without government infringement.

Believe what you like but you are wrong fella. The only 'right' you have enshrined in the constitution is the freedom to travel between states. You have no right to use any particular vehicle on the publicly funded road network.

Note that, 'publicly funded road network' it is not yours, it is provided communally through taxation. Use of that network requires you to effectively enter into a contract regarding roadworthy vehicles, competency to use said vehicle, and agreement to drive it following commonly held standards or 'rules' of the road.

In other threads you bang on continually about your sacred constitution so I'll throw it back at ya, there is nothing in that holy document which decrees you have a right to drive on roads funded by everyone else. Zero, nothing, nada, so suck it up.

The entire highways network is effectively a socialist policy funded by taxes. Remember in another thread where you bleated that you are against state healthcare funded by taxes, (A) because it is not in the constitution, and (B) because it requires others to pay for it, you know, evil socialism and all that.

Well guess what, there is no right in the constitution to highways or driving cars on them, and the very highway network is funded by the enforced taxes of everyone else.

So you expect to do as you please on roads which you have no legal 'right' to use, merely a privilege as you have defined clearly in previous posts. Remember how you assert that a right does not require the taxes of others?
I can quote you if you have conveniently forgotten that.

So yeah, suck it up fella, those roads you drive on are funded by everyone else so you follow everyone else's rules because the use of them is a privilege, most definitely not a right, no matter how much you believe it to be so.

I also disagree with the need for drivers licences and vehicle registration. You shouldn't need all that crap to travel the damn roads.

I refer you back to everything I said above lol
Tough luck fella, but very amusing to see your own arguments against state funded 'privileges' working against you in this whiny thread.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Metallicus
You don't believe people should have to demonstrate basic competency or obey any rules while controlling two tons of metal capable of going over a hundred mph?

Umm I see that all day everyday people who have a license but are not competent enough to drive ... Even some truck drivers I work with makes me wonder how hard they had to blow the examiner to obtain their license when they cant even shift into second gear ..

want to see how bad people drive buy a motorbike

I recently got a speeding ticket on an open stretch of road. 79 in a 60. It was a BS revenue grab by the hillbilly cop, but whatever. Most US highways are rated for much higher speeds than we typically drive.

I'll try to find it, but there was a study done that said speed limits are unnecessary because there is a natural flow of traffic for any given road. Basically, people drove at reasonable speed of the road and conditions regardless of the speed limit posted.

Granted, you will always have the one ahole who will mess it up for everyone, but those are the ones they should be going after, not people just cruising at the flow of traffic.

Here in Chicago, on Lake Shore Drive, the speed limit is like 40mph in the winter. '___' is a five lane highway! Doing 40 on that road literally feels like you are walking. the optimal speed is probably around 60-65 given the flow of traffic.

The most dangerous drivers though are people who drive too slow.

a reply to: Edumakated

"dangerous drivers though are people who drive too slow."

...because all the most horrific accidents happen at really low speeds? Is it a fact that even 2 stationary vehicles can kill? (I.e. 0mph)

Å99

originally posted by: freedomSlave

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Metallicus
You don't believe people should have to demonstrate basic competency or obey any rules while controlling two tons of metal capable of going over a hundred mph?

Umm I see that all day everyday people who have a license but are not competent enough to drive ... Even some truck drivers I work with makes me wonder how hard they had to blow the examiner to obtain their license when they cant even shift into second gear ..

want to see how bad people drive buy a motorbike

If those are the ones that passed the test, think how bad the ones that failed are. You really want them to be able to drive anyway?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: freedomSlave

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Metallicus
You don't believe people should have to demonstrate basic competency or obey any rules while controlling two tons of metal capable of going over a hundred mph?

Umm I see that all day everyday people who have a license but are not competent enough to drive ... Even some truck drivers I work with makes me wonder how hard they had to blow the examiner to obtain their license when they cant even shift into second gear ..

want to see how bad people drive buy a motorbike

If those are the ones that passed the test, think how bad the ones that failed are. You really want them to be able to drive anyway?

It's missed in the 'I wanna be an anarchist' posery...No licences, no registrations, no rules...but bad fricken drivers!

Å99

originally posted by: akushla99
a reply to: Edumakated

"dangerous drivers though are people who drive too slow."

...because all the most horrific accidents happen at really low speeds? Is it a fact that even 2 stationary vehicles can kill? (I.e. 0mph)

Å99

No because an idiot doing 50mph while everyone around them is driving 65-70 disturbs the natural flow of traffic. It causes the approaching drivers to slow down or try to pass unnecessarily.

a reply to: Edumakated

Lol, perhaps the OP should construct his own roads on his own private land, then he can drive as he likes with no restrictions.
Unfortunately for him though, the highway system is funded by taxes and owned communally by the people so the people get to decide which safety regulations are set as a requirement to enjoy the privilege of driving on them.

Perhaps he should start a petition or something?

Here in the UK I tend to drive according to the conditions on the road, not the speed limit set by government. Our motorways are all 70mph but police pretty much ignore anything up to 80mph. The only ones you can't beat are the speed cameras but when you know where they are you just slow down before you pass them.

Fines for speeding do not get passed to police forces in the UK though, just to central government, so our cops will often use discretion (a warning) if you are not 30mph over the limit. Show a bit of fake respect/remorse/shame for the 'crime' and it's rare to not be let off with an informal warning. Act like a dick and it's a ticket every time lol.

I got done at 103mph in a 70 zone a few years ago, the motorway was long and straight and the cop even said sorry fella, the camera got you and as you were 30mph over I can't even offer discretion, even though I know nobody else was at risk.
I went to court but kept my license with a decent lawyer, just a £1000 worse off lol

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: freedomSlave

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Metallicus
You don't believe people should have to demonstrate basic competency or obey any rules while controlling two tons of metal capable of going over a hundred mph?

Umm I see that all day everyday people who have a license but are not competent enough to drive ... Even some truck drivers I work with makes me wonder how hard they had to blow the examiner to obtain their license when they cant even shift into second gear ..

want to see how bad people drive buy a motorbike

If those are the ones that passed the test, think how bad the ones that failed are. You really want them to be able to drive anyway?

It's missed in the 'I wanna be an anarchist' posery...No licences, no registrations, no rules...but bad fricken drivers!

Å99

I suppose there are people who watch a Mad Max movie and think "yes , I want that lifestyle".

Personally I feel entirely comfortable that someone driving at 90 down an urban street is breaking the law before they kill someone.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: akushla99
a reply to: Edumakated

"dangerous drivers though are people who drive too slow."

...because all the most horrific accidents happen at really low speeds? Is it a fact that even 2 stationary vehicles can kill? (I.e. 0mph)

Å99

No because an idiot doing 50mph while everyone around them is driving 65-70 disturbs the natural flow of traffic. It causes the approaching drivers to slow down or try to pass unnecessarily.

...because all those travelling at 65-70 are are all driving according to some sort of rules?

A speed limit, is a limit...it isn't a compulsion to drive at that speed...the signs don't say 'recommended speed'. That's a 'rule' that doesn't exist except in the minds of people that say they don't like rules, or like to append existing rules.

The concept of sharing the road means that you are sharing it with folk who hold any number of beliefs, driving styles or no style at all...

Å99

a reply to: grainofsand

I agree most police are pretty reasonable depending on the circumstances. Get out the car, be polite and accept if you have done something wrong. That and hope they got laid the night before.

Personally would be quote happy for them to up limit on motorways substantially and drop them down to 20 in most urban areas.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: grainofsand

I agree most police are pretty reasonable depending on the circumstances. Get out the car, be polite and accept if you have done something wrong. That and hope they got laid the night before.

Very true. I imagine the fact that US police departments make money out of the speed fines influences their behaviour much more than it does UK cops who just get their regular funding regardless of tickets issued.

Personally would be quote happy for them to up limit on motorways substantially and drop them down to 20 in most urban areas.

I agree, we have 20mph in residential areas here, and I think with ABS and modern cars these days 70 is a bit slow on the motorways now.

...I had to travel back home to Wales last week but 5th gear is broke on my van, it was a miserably slow 55-60mph in 4th all the way, faster than 60 the engine was screaming. I was in the left hand lane all the way, even overtaken by National Express coaches...the shame!

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Metallicus
You don't believe people should have to demonstrate basic competency or obey any rules while controlling two tons of metal capable of going over a hundred mph?

Driving is NOT hard to do and no people should not have to get a license. All a license does is produce revenue for Government and enslave us to our corporate identities.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Metallicus
You don't believe people should have to demonstrate basic competency or obey any rules while controlling two tons of metal capable of going over a hundred mph?

Driving is NOT hard to do and no people should not have to get a license. All a license does is produce revenue for Government and enslave us to our corporate identities.

For something that not hard a lot of people manage to do it very badly. Are you really saying you are happy with someone with no training/experience to be able to go drive at any speed they like?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Metallicus
You don't believe people should have to demonstrate basic competency or obey any rules while controlling two tons of metal capable of going over a hundred mph?

Driving is NOT hard to do and no people should not have to get a license. All a license does is produce revenue for Government and enslave us to our corporate identities.

For something that not hard a lot of people manage to do it very badly. Are you really saying you are happy with someone with no training/experience to be able to go drive at any speed they like?

...or backwards, or on the wrong side of the road or blindfolded?

...obviously, the supporters DO want rules, their own...

Å99

DP

Perhaps if you step back for a second and take a look at the bigger picture, you might then understand why there are speed limits/road rules and mandatory licensing requirements before one can get behind the wheel of a 2000 lb weapon.

Someday your kids are going to be behind the wheel driving on those roads amongst all the other drivers... I'd like to think that you would want those other drivers obeying the road rules in the hopes of giving your kids a better chance at getting to their destinations in one piece.

You may not have any problem with your kid driving 140 miles per hour down an open stretch of highway with no driving experience (you know that whole testing/licensing thing)...

But keep in mind that my kid is also sharing that same stretch of road with your kid.



You don't live in a world of me me me.
You live in a world of we we we.



So until you buy that island for you and your family and make your own private little country... I'd appreciate it if you could have some consideration towards me and mine.

Thank you.