Why NOT stop Muslims from entering the US?

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: stolencar18

Jimmy Carter stopped them during the Iranian hostage crisis.

No one said a thing then.

That was Iranians. Not Muslims. Try again.

ETA: And the US allowed Iranians in the disavowed the regime.

The difference now is that we are at war with an ideology, not a country.

Therefore your analogy fails.

I am constantly full of fail. I have a pail of fail. My cup runeth over, of fail.

I think looking at solutions, openly discussing any and every alternative and solution is a good thing, yes? We should be able to have open and civil debate about any number of possible solutions.

I would be absolutely giddy if someone in leadership actually came up with one.

originally posted by: stolencar18
but non-Americans are not Americans.

Colombians are Americans.
Peruvians are Americans.
Hondurans are Americans.
Mexicans are Americans.
Heck, even Canadians are Americans.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I appreciate your sensibility but it doesn't answer the question...why NOT block them? Are you saying that just because it's trendy in this election cycle to talk about Muslims that there isn't a real problem with some Muslims?

There's a reason it's "trendy" - because millions of people who make up the people who vote in the election feel threatened (whether that's realistic or not) by Muslims.

Heart disease, gun crime, car crashes, etc don't negate the Muslim risk. Theyre a different risk. It doesn't mean one risk should be ignored.

originally posted by: aorAki
Heck, even Canadians are Americans.

And then you had to get personal.

Quiet as it’s kept there’s only one sect in Islam who is responsible for ALL the terrorism and it’s called Wahhabism or Salafi

Experts even say that the crazy Islam in Pakistan is from Wahhabi teachings


You don’t even have Shia doing it

Though you had a bit of it in Lebanon 30 years ago but that was more local

You will not see other schools of thought in Islam doing this kind of madness


I think the Saudis have helped cover this up


People know of Wahhabism pernicious dogma but were forgetting these are ALL Wahhabi “Muslims”

Trumps probably too dumb to understand that

Now dont get me wrong all Wahhabis aren’t terrorists but all Terrorist from Islam are practically all Wahhabi today


Not even Muslim Brotherhood Muslims do this madness that I know of

Its all Salafi Wahhabis

There taught, unlike most other schools of thought in Islam, TO HATE ALL OTHER SECTS OF RELIIGON BUT THEIR OWN

They actually hate more than anyone other Muslim schools of thought.

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I appreciate your sensibility but it doesn't answer the question...why NOT block them?

How will you know who is Muslim and who isn't?

a reply to: Willtell

This is great info, but not really relevant.

Let's state this another way.

Black people. 99.9% are great, and they're peaceful, and they work hard, and they are great parents, and they're the opposite of every negative stereotype there is about black people. But 0.1% are asshats that need attention are a serious threat.

Same for white people.

Or Jews.

Or Christians.

Or elves.

The fact that most are good doesn't mean we have to let the bad ones in too (when it comes to this Muslim topic). We know there are Muslim extremists trying to come in pretending to be innocent refugees or immigrants. We know some Muslims want to blow us up. There is a group of these people actively threatening the US (and other countries) with ridiculous violence.

And the attitude is "Ya, but not ALL of them are bad, so we may as well take our chances".

Screw that...lock the border and start figuring out who is coming in. The fact that there are bad people already here of other races or religions doesn't mean we need to let more in.

Oh look! We have rapists here! May as well open the border to more rapists!
Same logic...

originally posted by: aorAki
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Get out of here with your sensible post. This isn't the forum for that!

I liked it, by the way.

Exactly, would give more stars if I could,

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I appreciate your sensibility but it doesn't answer the question...why NOT block them? Are you saying that just because it's trendy in this election cycle to talk about Muslims that there isn't a real problem with some Muslims?

There's a reason it's "trendy" - because millions of people who make up the people who vote in the election feel threatened (whether that's realistic or not) by Muslims.

Heart disease, gun crime, car crashes, etc don't negate the Muslim risk. Theyre a different risk. It doesn't mean one risk should be ignored.

No, I'm saying we're being scapegoated. I thought I was clear about that.

And yeah, why ignore the things that are killing & victimizing thousands of times more Americans? The priorities are screwed up.

Not to mention, we can't even begin to end actual terrorism until we stop the cycle that creates terrorism in the first place. Targeting 1.6 billion people isn't going to change that.

a reply to: aorAki

I don't have the answer to that. Not at this point. Does my lack of a method mean we should just say "screw it, we'll take our chances"?

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I appreciate your sensibility but it doesn't answer the question...why NOT block them?

How will you know who is Muslim and who isn't?

Interesting question as 2/3 of Muslims aren't Arab. I look forward to this answer.

originally posted by: stolencar18

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: stolencar18

I have yet to see anyone say why we shouldn't block them from coming in.

Because one of the building blocks of our nation is freedom of religion that applies to people that live here and people that want to live here. If we are not going to support freedom of religion then take it out of the Constitution.

Woah...the constitution and bill of rights do not extend to people who "want to live here". Basic human rights, etc, maybe, but non-Americans are not Americans.

Yes it does extend to people that want to live here. When they start the immigration process then they are covered by our Constitution because our Constitution is for people not just citizens.

a reply to: stolencar18

I don't support Trump's idea at all

I'm just making an observation

You obviously haven't read many of my posts or OP's


www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: stolencar18

I'm beginning to think you are ignoring my question.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Scapegoated? Really?

I'll go as far as conceding that MOST Muslims are great people.

I disagree that Muslims are being scapegoated. Everyone knows that it's a small percentage of Muslims that need to be stopped. The problem is we can't easily separate them out right now, so the only solutions are:
1. Let them all in and cross our fingers
2. Stop them all and control the flow inwards, doing our best to stop them before they come in, even if it inconveniences some of the good ones.

I'm not saying Islam is bad, but I do think more people in the Muslim world need to step up and stand up against the extremists.

originally posted by: schuyler
Yes, there is a problem with it. The 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not only give you free speech rights, it also grants you freedom of religion. So if you decide who can get in based on religion, you just violated a key provision of the Bill of Rights. There is no equivocation here, either, because religion is specifically spelled out.

It's really that simple.

The 1st amendment applies to US citizens, not to those who are not yet citizens of the country.

a reply to: stolencar18

OK. I get it now. Random ignorant rant. With random ignorant points. Why do I feel like I'm back in high school? Think it out. See the impossibilities, ie: you can't tell a Muslim by looking at them, then we'll have something to discuss.

a reply to: lifecitizen

Thanks for pointing out that I missed this. My bad.

I haven't given much thought to what to do about the Muslims already here. Throw them out? Nah. We do need to have a closer look at things though.

Stop the influx of Muslims until BETTER controls can be put in place. I think most Muslims agree that it'd be a great thing to keep out the extremists. So let's close off the flow, develop a plan to examine who is already here, implement ways to control the border long term, and go from there.

I don't think we need to block all Muslims forever. I think we need better controls though. Something to make sure we stay safe and the good Muslims stay safe as well. All of our children deserve safe places to play and grow. We need to give this to them. Safety isn't always convenient.

originally posted by: aorAki
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Get out of here with your sensible post. This isn't the forum for that!

I liked it, by the way.

Thanks. I'm trying to stay out of these threads because the whole premise is too irrational to take seriously. But the political climate has become so irrational that this has become a "legit" topic.

a reply to: schuyler

Yes. You're absolutely right in everything you said. Freedom of religion is very crystal clear.

Now...show me where the Constitution or Bill of Rights extend that freedom to citizens of other countries.