Lazy people are generally more successful in a capitalist society

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Why bring "capitalism" into this discussion when the whole thread is about being smart enough to go where the money is?
When the "smart" idea comes as you are sweeping the floor, the creative mind says I think I can do something better with my life. And you know what? That individual goes out buys another broom and hires two people to do the work he was doing. Then he goes and buys the Benz. Being safe and secure or locked into what you want to do is not ever going to make you take the chance of being in a better place. The fellow in the OP that went out on his own simply demonstrated what it takes to strike out on your own rather than finding a niche in some existing structure.

Somebody is confusing capitalism with being an entrepreneur.

a reply to: Metallicus

I worked extremely hard in order to gain my financial freedom and this was due to the benefits of a Capitalist society. Without that society I wouldn't have been motivated to start my businesses and employ people as well as pay business taxes into the system.

Most people have no idea what it takes to run a business. They think you just woke up one morning on a smooth sailing ship, with a golf club in your hand. Neither are they self motivated or self disciplined enough to be their own supervisor, and work 16 hours today if that's what is needed. All they see is the end result of your hard work, and wish they had it so "easy". If they only knew.

I'm self-employed, and no where near financial freedom, but I'll keep plugging away until I am.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I did say big institutions "like" our local government but yes local government are not be capitalistic. What `i was really getting at though is what I see as a malaise within all our institutions throughout the capitalistic world.

The majority of working people are likely to be employed and in the past you worked hard because it was rewarded by pay schemes set up to reward and promote employees. That way people settled where they earned their living to an extent. Those who put in the extra got extra bonuses and flew up the incremental levels. Today with the capitalistic principle of only a few hands governing all things and our institutions, we have managed to virtually do away with all middle management, (some due to technological reasons) and essentially our middle class.

The virtue of the minimum wage which I remember the government spouting as a means only to bring up low paid workers to a fair wage , has actually been worked very cleverly to achieve the reverse of this and bring down wages to the minimum level. This exists pretty much across the board, whilst the concentration of profit, nb. especially if one's corporation doesn't pay tax as it should, gets placed in a very few and exceptionally wealthy hands. We are now looking at the ever depreciating standards across not only business but also the services we pay for. I suspect some of this is due to - you pay peanuts etc. etc. I would also say that mass immigration has helped implement this policy beautifully.

a reply to: Klassified

I know where you are coming from because I decided to retrain and start my own clinic once I qualified. It is extremely hard work because you don't work an 8 hour shift or a five day week. But the pleasure when it starts to slowly come together and you creep up to the break even and then hit profit and can pay yourself a salary is a reward most workers will never experience.

However, I do notice today with my sons, one in the NHS and the other working on contract maintaining council and social housing, that both are constantly reminded that their efficiency pays their wages, monitoring is today in place virtually watching every thing they do with their time etc plus both have to upgrade their qualifications as an on-going thing because something new has hit people e.g. the possibility of being personally sued should they make a mistake etc etc which in no way either of them merely do a job they can leave and not think about after hours etc. Yet the money is half a hop up from the minimum wage.

a reply to: Shiloh7

I know where you are coming from because I decided to retrain and start my own clinic once I qualified. It is extremely hard work because you don't work an 8 hour shift or a five day week. But the pleasure when it starts to slowly come together and you creep up to the break even and then hit profit and can pay yourself a salary is a reward most workers will never experience.

Exactly. Yet there will always be someone who thinks you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, because they've never had to do the work, and they don't keep a full bottle of Ibuprofen at work and at home. Lol.

However, I do notice today with my sons, one in the NHS and the other working on contract maintaining council and social housing, that both are constantly reminded that their efficiency pays their wages, monitoring is today in place virtually watching every thing they do with their time etc plus both have to upgrade their qualifications as an on-going thing because something new has hit people e.g. the possibility of being personally sued should they make a mistake etc etc which in no way either of them merely do a job they can leave and not think about after hours etc. Yet the money is half a hop up from the minimum wage.

That sucks. Hopefully they can both move on from that oppressive atmosphere at some point.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
I did say big institutions "like" our local government...

Comparing it to government of any type is erroneous as government is supposed to be revenue neutral and business is not.

Today with the capitalistic principle of only a few hands governing all things and our institutions, we have managed to virtually do away with all middle management, (some due to technological reasons) and essentially our middle class.

What you mentioned is not a 'capitalistic principle'. Capitalism by definition is:

an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

It's not what you know, It's who you know....

Being friendly, networking, trustworthy and paying attention will get you further in a capitalistic society than hard physical labor.

Also being educated and having a good working knowledge of the English language is helpful on the road to success.

originally posted by: olaru12

It's not what you know, It's who you know....

Being friendly, networking, trustworthy and paying attention will get you further in a capitalistic society than hard physical labor.

Also being educated and having a good working knowledge of the English language is a big help in being successful.

Excellent points. My network is quite large and I get recruited weekly. Having a good grasp of language helps you articulate your experience, plan and aspirations.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
So about 3 years back I did some renovation work for my old man on one of his hotels. He had one of my brothers mates working there, laziest prick I have ever met, he used to rock up at around 11am, then would just spend most of the day chating with the cleaning ladies, or whatever.

Anyway, though the work he did for my old man he decided he wanted to get into painting, so my dad gave him a few few tools to get started... 3 years later and this dude's driving around in a brand new Mercedes benz, completely off the tools and renovating old office buildings, to turn them into student accommodation dorms... I'm actually working for him atm. Since, I used to be a plasterer back in the day and have just moved back to my home town of Melbourne to look for work... So its worked out just fine for me, but seriously, how does such a lazy & scared of hard labour individual become so successful?

My theory... Most truly hard working people are far to stressed to take on to much, there always worried about what else needs to be done and whether a good job has been done... But the dude in question could not give the slightest f..... He sleeps like a baby either way, only thing he's worried about is when he gets paid... Where as a truly hard worker with integrity would be far more stressed out about whether a quality job is being done and whether the customer is getting value for money.

So yeah, basically the theory that being a hard worker will make you rich is a complete delusional illusion... What will make you rich in a capitalist society, is not caring one way or the other, just so long as you get paid!

Thriving in a capitalism... being a hard worker has nothing to do with it!!!

You clearly missunderstood something here, being a WORKER is NEVER gonna make your rich, your earning money to other people, doesnt matter if you give a # about it, though its deffinetly healthier Being a Boss is what you need to do, and you dont need to be hard working either, now people is gonna make money for YOU my friend

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

In my experience, the laziest ones with the most winning personalities are the ones who get ahead. Turning on the charm in front of the right people will get you VERY FAR! The people who truly work til their bones crackle are the types who don't stop to chat 20 minutes of every hour, the ones who don't complain about every little bit of nonsense in the workplace, and are the ones who treat their coworkers as teammates instead of obstacles.

Lazy people just wait for others to hand them everything and do their work for them.

Being a hardworking, honest person is not how you move on up quickly, but it does make me able to live with myself every week.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

The key to success in the capitalist world is networking.... it's all about who you know, and who knows you.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

My theory...

Nope. Not yours.

This is from The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, published in 1876.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Did you actually talk to the guy or are you making a huge assumption about his work ethic?
Regardless, you should be happy most people can't afford Mercedes brand cars...Sounds to me like your more envious than anything.

Yeah, I've obviously talked to him, he's been my brothers best friend since he was in year 8 and worked for my dad for years. Also, I'm certainly not envious of his Mercedes, I'm only envious of anyone that drives a later model of what I'm already driving... You can't go hit some rough dirt tracks and camp in the back of a bloody Mercedes, lol.

Truth is, I'm proud of him and don't mind admitting I could never do what he does, the stress would kill me and I despise small chat and networking... Its just an interesting observation that its the guy who spends most the day chatting and avoiding physical labour who is more likely to climb the ladder of success, rather than the guy who has pride in there work and goes hard all day.

Like someone already said, its not what you know its who you know... as far as I'm concerned, just give me my 8 hours and I'll just go home and forget about it for the night. No need to sell my soul by "networking" and socializing with people I don't even like, just so I can afford a Mercedes Benz, lol.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Is it such a distinguishable line as you say though, in principle or in practise? An example of this is In a non capitalist society such as communism people don't get bonuses whatsoever - fiddling apart of course, whereby it has been part of a capitalist financial reward system that permeates both business and government.

The 'boss gets to give financial rewards. The only difference is that government's use tax revenue earned thorough revenue neutral practises whilst companies use profits.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

But, where is the difference between the Chairman of the board giving his best workers a reward from the profits to cameron giving his buddies and workers extra?

In fact when you think about business and London's government, most of it is still going on the old boy's network. We can't select our politicians because only the rich, or those backed by business can afford to run for office, which makes government merely the name of yet another rich men's 'collective' business, just look at our front benches to see how aligned their backgrounds are. Even cameron is the queen's cousin and she suggested he be put in office.

The only difference between the man who creates his own business and risks crash and burn when you consider the bonus rewards is that the civil servant rarely ever looses his job because of mistakes made and accountability. The laziness of some of those individuals fits perfectly with this topic. I suspect many of our top civil servants wouldn't survive in the outside world but can keep their lifestyles due to their protected incomes regardless of whether they work hard or not. Self-made and those who don't fit the old boy stye merely get to crash and burn if they fail or if they are 'socially suitable for the elite they join them' by being given a title.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
Is it such a distinguishable line as you say though, in principle or in practise? An example of this is In a non capitalist society such as communism people don't get bonuses whatsoever - fiddling apart of course, whereby it has been part of a capitalist financial reward system that permeates both business and government.

And? Why is the reception of a bonus bad? If the business owner opts to pay these out or set up a system where they are obtainable that is their prerogative.

The 'boss gets to give financial rewards. The only difference is that government's use tax revenue earned thorough revenue neutral practises whilst companies use profits.

I am personally not aware of any United States civil employees receiving bonuses and if I were made aware of someone receiving one I would certainly be against this practice.