American man forced into joblessness and homelessness because

a reply to: SHABBYCAT

Don't be a candyass.

Go ahead, yell at me. It's good for you and you SHOULD post.

I think that flowers are gross. I hate brushing my teeth, it's only for stupid people. Only men should be allowed to drive.

Get me! It's good practice! I'm serious, refute those points, they're the same kind of thing we all argue about, it's all personal perspective. I'd much rather hear what you have to say and disagree, than not ever know your voice.

Don't take it to heart, I was scared to post too, and now I just don't give a bleep about being embarrassed. That's the whole point, sharing opinions and your frame of reference! The more people that share, the better we all are.

Seriously, just jump in and post. You're well written, you seem like a nice person, share your thoughts with us!

I hope you figure out this thing with your son. I remember feeling like it was a catch 22 trying to get my Father's documents sorted when his house burned down, but you can do it. It's a pain in the ass, but you can do it.

a reply to: Nyiah
It is strange new world we live in.

I am having a similar problem with my DL.

I was born and raised in this country. I am a veteran. I am employed and have been, for over 40 years in the state where I live. I work for the State.

Yet when my I tried to renew my DL I was informed that I couldn't renew my DL with the my legal name, that they will only renew my license with the name on my birth certificate, unless I provide them with my marriage license.

Now the marriage license is not available, and was never a problem until now, because the marriage was annulled back when I was still young and very stupid. I kept my married name all these years for a very personal reason, and it has never been a problem, until now.

It is amazing how these government agencies and businesses are so ridgid in their requirements, and so devoid of commonsense. I know why you don't believe him. You don't believe him because the whole thing is stupid and makes no damn sense, but that is what we have come to.

Maybe I could get my government papers straightened out if I crossed the border, came back, and tried to claim refugee status. I wouldn't need any papers then, because a desperate person never lies, going by their way of thinking.

Well, your story sounds quite interesting and believable to me. Sorry your son is having this kind of trouble getting vetted by the boss man.

What I find so interesting is that your son's situation sounds like a way to get out of the system and disappear altogether. If you can't prove who you are with all the paper work you have, then it sounds like this could be a way to circumvent citizenship in the U.S. If you want to renounce citizenship and repatriate to another country, which is something that is difficult to do these days.

If he is not proven to be a citizen, perhaps this is an opportunity to change his identity, maybe he can even get deported somehow to a country of his choice. If he isn't a legal citizen on paper, a non-citizen or man without a country so-to-speak, maybe this could be used to release him from the bondage of being a U.S. citizen. I'm not saying this is what he wants to do with his life, but it sounds like a good way to disappear and reinvent yourself elsewhere.

I have the paper work to prove who I am, yet who can prove, or would try to prove my identity if I let my DL expire and refused to produce the proper documentation to prove I am who I am. Learn Spanish, live with the illegal migrants and work the fields during harvest season, then get yourself deported to Mexico or some other country south of our boarder. With all the corruption down there, get some fake ID and paperwork drawn up and come back to the U.S. as a migrant with a work visa, or better yet, find another country to live in.

Get over to Greece, paddle over to Lesbos and you're on your way to become a German citizen. It seems like he could be a international citizen of the world, or could get a job as a spook for the alphabet agencies, like James Bond sort of.

I think that if you and your son try hard enough, he will finally prove himself a citizen, but it seems like an opportunity that some would love to have, being a nobody, a non-citizen of any country, could make for an interesting life with many possibilities. You might be considered an "outlaw", but who's laws are you really outside of?

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Interesting thought process there. I never even got to that point. Like Tom Hanks in that cheesy flick The Terminal.

Really, though, if he cannot prove he is a legal citizen then who is he? Does this even qualify for that term legal citizenship? I don't have any answers as I surely am not knowledgeable enough.

a reply to: SHABBYCAT
Trust me my friend, it is not you.

ATS is just keeping pace with the rest of the world we live in.

I don't write for the people that post here at ATS anymore. I usually post for people like you. The readers and lurkers.

I too was a reader, then a lurker, for a number of years before I decided to jump in. I know there is a huge community of you out there. You have been an ATS member for about five years, so you have seen the deterioration of the site and now you have experienced it first hand.

I left for a couple of months because I was so disappointed in what ATS had become, I actually tried to discontinue my membership. There is no dis-enrollment button by the the way. I went back to being a lurker, but came to realized it is easier said than done. I decided not to run. I realized ATS was slowly developing the face of the new world that we live in. I stayed and now I post for the shadow members. I don't post for the stars and flags, they too are slowly losing their original meaning.

So don't be disheartened. I was furious when I reached out to a mod with my complaints about their tolerance for these new competitive, acerbic, hostile, posts that were becoming so frequent on ATS, and was told I needed to grow a thicker skin. In my heart I left ATS. I continued to lurk and without trying, I grew that thicker skin. I guess you have to wear the gear for the job.

I wish I could say I feel like I have become a better person for it; that would not be true. If anything I have become more disconnected, and less caring of what some people say, and I no longer care what people think of me as a person.

Most of the people that I avoid engaging, don't have the resources to judge me, because they never take the time to really listen to what anyone else has to say. They are on their own private missions, with their own agenda, and other people's thoughts and ideas, are just stones to be stepped on. They use the thoughts and ideas of others to bolster themselves to that place in their mind they are trying to reach, were they are smarter than, superior than.... I have learned it is both futile and harmful to your spirit to connect with some people around the boards. I try to be selective of the threads I participate in, and I will retreat if the toxicty levels start to get too high.

So stick around. There are a lot of good people still yet on ATS, and don't forget your constituency. They need people that are posting for them and not themselves. Take it slow. Take a break when needed. You will see that skin start to thicken up in no time. Just make sure it stays soft. When you it starts to take on the characteristics of stone; RUN!

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck
Really, though, if he cannot prove he is a legal citizen then who is he? Does this even qualify for that term legal citizenship? I don't have any answers as I surely am not knowledgeable enough.

Oh, they know he is a citizen. Funny they don't use those requirements to take your money. You don't see the IRS making you jump through any hoops to prove they have the right to take your money.

These exaggerated requirements are only in place for the natural citizenry. They don't expect asylum seekers to have any physical proof that they they are, who they say they are, of course they had to leave with just the clothes on their backs and their cell phones. Example used as a point of reference, not to bash asylum seekers. They don't make the rules.

Now for the natural citizens of this country, their true disdain is in full display the moment you walk into one of those government offices. Try it on for size. See how far you get and how you are treated if you go down to the DL office and tell them you want to a duplicate DL because all your papers were destroyed in a fire. Tell them you have your electric bill, a pay stub, and your old license is on file with your picture and everything.

In most places you will be shown to the door with a security guard or police escort. You will quickly see that you are not in Kansas anymore.

a reply to: SHABBYCAT

Sorry your first post here didn't go very well for you but, don't let it get to you too much. It's just a forum on the internet after all.

I don't really have any suggestions that could help other than what has been offered already but, I sincerely hope your son gets it all sorted out.

I can't imagine how hard it must be for you to see this happening to your son.

a reply to: SHABBYCAT

Sorry to hear the difficulties your son has getting ID, I can't offer any advice as I'm in the UK, here it's pretty straightforward getting a passport, just need a copy of birth certificate and the signature of a current passport holder confirming the picture you provide is who you say it is.
Sounds a nightmare though, I wish you success.

One question if you don't mind me asking, why is your son on the streets exactly?
My son would never be on the streets so long as I have a roof over my head, heck even if all I had was a rented single room in a slum area then he'd have a mattress on the floor next to me.
Maybe it's just me but I spent half a year on the streets when I was 16, and so long as I have shelter of my own then there will always be a space there for my son.

a reply to: grainofsand

My son would never be on the streets so long as I have a roof over my head, heck even if all I had was a rented single room in a slum area then he'd have a mattress on the floor next to me.

Things are not always as easy as that here in the US. Many places have very rigid restrictions on authorized occupancy.

If a person is receiving a housing subsidy, or if they live in a gated community, or an age restricted community, there are very specific guidelines on who can stay over in the home, how many can stay, and for how long. In these places there are always the enforcers.

In the US neighbors can sometimes be less than kind, and government spies.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Wow that sounds terrible!
Here, even if someone is in government housing and funded by benefits, the worst one would expect would be a reduction in the rent payments to reflect a contribution to be expected from the 'non-dependent' adult.

If the 'non-dependent' is out of work such as the son in the OP then there would be no reduction in the parents rent benefit, and then there is a sliding scale depending on the income of the person sharing the home.

I knew a chap who was sleeping on the floor of his elderly parents 'sheltered housing' scheme which was not officially allowed, but the other residents and the management turned a blind eye for obvious human decency reasons.
I can't imagine a community wishing someone to sleep on the streets because of 'rules', really does sound horrible, so if that is the case for OP I offer genuine sympathy.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: SHABBYCAT

American man forced into joblessness and homelessness because... he got drunk as a skunk everyday and had a hangover so bad that he called in sick to work at least 3 times in one week. He also stole stuff out of the cooler and took it home to eat.
He also got arrested for DUI and had his car impounded and didn't have enough money to take the bus to work because he spent all his money on wine, weed and pills.

That description was of me as a young man, until I decided to get sober.

Care to tell us your story?

Just because this was relevant to your homelessness doesn't make this the reason why people are homeless. It's damaging to paint homelessness with a broad brush. There are more drunks and druggies along with their manufacturers and distributors that are employed with homes.

Homelessness has nothing to do with anything but two things. Those are intolerance or being forgotten. There are plenty of lazy people who are tolerated. And plenty of druggies or alchololics who are loved and not forgotten.

I say this young man is obviously loved and not forgotten and has a home with loved ones. While not his own home, who does actually own a home nowdays? Mortgages or rent don't count. No. No they don't. False positions of being master of one's house with mortgaged and rent. So realistically more than half of the United States is homeless leading us into a larger question of "what do we do?" Well. Most people don't want to face that issue because it reveals the truth of just how screwed everyone really is. Not addressing the issue at this point and on that level will lead to EVERYONE being homeless because it only takes a handful of people as big as the state of Texas to act out violently towards others against acts that are at its root criminal which is the artificial inflation of land and home ownership and those at the top of the illusion that forces everyone else to live in it, who hoard and take away. Rinse, repeat.

As far as the ID fiasco goes:

All I can think of is that this is forming to be an agenda to do palm scans and iris scans, eliminating paperwork for ID. The Sentera Health system is offering patients hand scans upon checking themselves into the ER. Optional at this time.

originally posted by: WhiteWingedMonolith
All I can think of is that this is forming to be an agenda to do palm scans and iris scans, eliminating paperwork for ID.

Probably the way of the future, wouldn't surprise me.
On a related note, I have a UK passport but I refused to get a picture ID driving license when they came in a few years ago, on principle.
I've been stopped by cops a few times who have informed me that it is a crime to not update my license from the scrappy paper document I hold, but I am honest and tell them the law is just a silly tax so I'll be happy to defend my case in court if they wish to waste public money on a trial. I even taunt them saying 'Go on report me to the Crown Prosecution Service and let's see them laugh you out of the office'.

One cop asked "Well how do I know you are legal to drive and you are who you say you are?", to which I replied, the computer in your car is telling you that XXXX (My name) is qualified to drive legally, and if you doubt who I am then just arrest me and you'll quickly find out as you already have my picture, fingerprints, and DNA on police record.
The cop chuckled and left me on my way.

a reply to: SHABBYCAT


So he's actually homeless? Is he living on the street or with you?


ETA: I just read that he's on the streets. I hope there's a really good reason he's not living with you.
Sounds an awful situation all round

a reply to: blupblup

Apparently in the US it is common for people to live in places where you can't let someone stay the night, that's what a reply to me said.
I asked the same thing because if my son was homeless he would always have a space with me even if I was living in a #ty single rented room in a slum street.
I can't imagine that a modern nation can have 'rules' that you can't let your homeless son stay on the floor under your own roof. Seems the US is not the land of the free, I've learned in a different thread today that it is illegal to sleep in your vehicle on public roads, WTF?!

a reply to: grainofsand


Well sounds nuts... I can understand there has to be restrictions on people living with you in social housing and whatever, otherwise there'd be like 20 people to every house, even in the UK you can't just have whoever you want staying whenever you want, certainly in social housing...but your homeless son?? Pretty sure that'd be OK.

Harsh as **** man.

a reply to: blupblup

Agreed, 20 odd unregistered tenants in a council house will be frowned on, but unable to offer a sofa or mattress on the floor to your son? That really is #ed up.
...you could easily get away with a load of mates in a UK council flat though if there was no disturbance and no neighbours complained. All everyone needs to say is that they don't live there, and so long as nobody gets their mail sent there I can't see how it would even be discovered.

I can't actually imagine any housing situation I could ever be in where I could not offer a space to my son under my roof...can you?

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: blupblup

Apparently in the US it is common for people to live in places where you can't let someone stay the night, that's what a reply to me said.
I asked the same thing because if my son was homeless he would always have a space with me even if I was living in a #ty single rented room in a slum street.
I can't imagine that a modern nation can have 'rules' that you can't let your homeless son stay on the floor under your own roof. Seems the US is not the land of the free, I've learned in a different thread today that it is illegal to sleep in your vehicle on public roads, WTF?!

I too suffer from culture shock, and I live here. Almost everyday I see or hear something that has me convinced I either fell through a worm hole to another dimension, time slipped to another reality, or was beamed into the Outer Limits of the Twilight Zone.

In the places where there are occupancy restrictions, they will allow non-registered occupants for a limited period of time, usually under 14 days. So it is not that a child over 18, that is not in school, can't visit or stay over, they just are not allowed to live in the residence.

This used to be something that was overlooked, when children were forced to come back home, for whatever reasons, but those people affected by our new societal norms, are not so understanding, or forgiving, and the rules are their weapons.

It can get really crazy over here. People have nearly lost their homes because they couldn't afford to have their roof pressure cleaned, or their door or mailbox was painted the wrong color. Worse yet, is that more than one person has nearly lost their home because they insisted on displaying the American flag.

Yes. This is the new America, and yes it is sad. I too find myself asking on a near daily basis, WTF!!!!

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Yes. This is the new America, and yes it is sad. I too find myself asking on a near daily basis, WTF!!!!

The more I read on ATS the more I wonder who is more oppressed. The 'servants of the Crown' or those 'blessed with the constitution'.

Yeah we are filmed/recorded/snooped on electronically, but free to easily get a passport through the testimony of another UK passport holder, free to sleep in our cars on public streets, free to cross the same street anywhere without fear of a citation, free to argue with our cops without fear of being shot for not showing 'respect', free to have a #ty front yard with brown mud instead of grass, free to do all sorts...authority is not something to be feared in the UK.

a reply to: grainofsand
Then I would hold on voraciously to every single freedom you have left. Hold them sacred and dear. Do not lose another single one of them.You are starting to see just how valuable they are.

I never thought I would see the day that I would actually be entertaining the thought of leaving America. Not because of the land of the free, home of the brave, crap. I have seen enough ugliness at the hands of my country to know that it is not innocent, and its hands are dirty up to the neck, but I always had hope. Hope is quickly fading.

Got room on that floor of yours for two old stragglers? My mom and me come as a set. We don't eat much. Pretty handy with a set of tools, as long as it doesn't involve electricity. A bit slow and broken, but between the two us we equal about one and a half, and we can still carry our own.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Got room on that floor of yours for two old stragglers? My mom and me come as a set. We don't eat much. Pretty handy with a set of tools, as long as it doesn't involve electricity. A bit slow and broken, but between the two us we equal about one and a half, and we can still carry our own.

Haha if you find a cash in hand job quick enough to pay me rent then yep you're welcome!
...crazy how with all my thoughts and posts about uncontrolled EU immigration to the UK I'm admitting here that I'd accept a US illegal working hard next to me.
Perhaps I identify more with our shared language.