This is not a day care. This is a university!

At the risk of being the unpopular one...I think this letter speaks to me in the regard it reminds me not of a generation of students but an attitude held by parents of students, students, and your everyday citizen in many parts of the US today whom I just can't get behind or feel any sympatgy for- and what a perfect time of yr to say it..in fact I'll just use this one example for my whole argument.. If I hear one more town where parents are going nuts with lawyers and all because the school their kids are in either uses the words Christmas Vacation instead of Winter Break or flip not because they sang O Holy Night, not Silent Night, not Come Emmanuel, and not Jesus Loves Me but Jingle Bell Rock I'm gonna rip my hair out. And it's the drama that gets to me just as much as the argument. They say words like attacked or deeply offended to describe how these things have torn their family apart and ruined their kids self esteem. I don't give a damn about freedom of religion whiners because they don't get that doesn't mean free from having to see an image or read a word that might remind them some people are a different religion than they are...and saying that is the case doesn't deserve removing this and that from city hall it deserves a straight jacket. It also doesn't mean communities built up of a major predominance of Christians can't sing songs they choose that aren't damn hymns they're songs about a holiday that almost everyone in the US celebrates in middle America where this happens most (and do not presume to correct me or complain without really considering key and detail words I just used like almost and a few more) and that's cuz Christmas has just become not just a holiday for Jesus it's JUST as much, maybe more, a secular one here that I know atheists who celebrate as well as even a Jew...just one Jew. Speaking of, I'd not be the slightest bit offended if I lived in a community of mostly Muslims or Jews and my children were learning about their culture I'd find it quite interesting and delightful and I have no problem in celebrating with others even celebrating a religious ritual or holiday or rite of passage with them and would expect to if I CHOOSE to live where I'm minority. So this letter reminds me of the idiots like that who realized the 200 year old ten commandments statue outside the place they paid a parking ticket and wouldn't stop til Satan went up. Its not like they have a copy inside they use in judiciary proceedings instead of the secular city law books or like the 18 Satanists in town in 2015 have anything near the same rights the 10,000 Christian town founders in 1815 in regard to dictating what's in public spaces and no matter what first amendment says, if u really feel ATTACKED by looking at that and feel the need to interpret and enforce it like that, you need a shrink. Not a more secular government. Geez, I remember walking around cities under the iron curtain and I'd die for some color even a religious sigil from some foreign planet those places were so void of culture it's amazing people really desire that...or like I suspect it's more an attention craving or a financial/lawsuit sniff out attempt than actual offended victims.

originally posted by: 0hlord
a reply to: poncho1982

Children who never learned to be adults, now have children of their own who have now come of age. 

Reality check. This problem is thousands of years old.

REAL reality check...no it's not.

This problem is new, and comes from entitlement and indoctrination, coupled with ineffective and immature parenting.

a reply to: poncho1982

Yes... What problem were we talking about again?
Your problem or mine?

originally posted by: 0hlord
a reply to: poncho1982

Yes... What problem were we talking about again?
Your problem or mine?

Honestly, this is the first time I have participated in a thread where someone was accused of being a troll for no reason. Don't take it to heart, it just shows they had nothing of value to fight against the points you were making. The irony was this was about Millennials being childish, whinny, and not taking responsibility. From what I've gotten out of this thread, it was only ok for their generations to act out in these ways. The only difference between the past and now is the internet and social media.

ETA: Oh and the fact that this country has been driven into the ground and handed to our generation. We don't like how it's ran, but aren't suppose to speak our minds. When kids do, they're labeled whiners that take no initiative and want everything handed to them. Well sorry old-timers, but its time to step aside because what you guys have been doing isn't working obviously.

a reply to: amicktd

Well sorry old-timers, but its time to step aside because what you guys have been doing isn't working obviously.

I am an old timer and I agree with you. I have been ready to pass the baton for a long time.

I can't undo the mistakes my generation made. Maybe you shouldn't try to fix them. Maybe your generation has a better plan, building from scratch.

It is all yours. I wish nothing but good will in your endeavors.

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: 0hlord
a reply to: poncho1982

Yes... What problem were we talking about again?
Your problem or mine?

Honestly, this is the first time I have participated in a thread where someone was accused of being a troll for no reason. Don't take it to heart, it just shows they had nothing of value to fight against the points you were making. The irony was this was about Millennials being childish, whinny, and not taking responsibility. From what I've gotten out of this thread, it was only ok for their generations to act out in these ways. The only difference between the past and now is the internet and social media.

ETA: Oh and the fact that this country has been driven into the ground and handed toour generation. We don't like how it's ran, but aren't suppose to speak our minds. When kids do, they're labeled whiners that take no initiative and want everything handed to them. Well sorry old-timers, but its time to step aside because what you guys have been doing isn't working obviously.

So, you're a millennial, yet you claim to know exactly how it was in the past...

Ooo!!! Can I borrow your time machine? PLEASE??? C'mon, I won't change much.

You don't know what it used to be like, you have no frame of reference. NONE.

We "old-timers" however, do. And it's more different now, than you could possibly imagine.

Lol. AWESOME band name.

This problem is new, and comes from entitlement and indoctrination, coupled with ineffective and immature parenting.

Erm, I'm pretty sure group one leads directly into group two
It's not "coupled with", it's because of ineffective and immature parenting.
What, are you trying to say that my generation is... Genetically predisposed to entitlement or something?
Oh, and I feel like I should point out that the people like the one being talked about in the OP aren't representative of my entire generation, thank you very much.

-----[Not Directed At Anyone In Particular]-----

You wouldn't like it if I said all Catholic Priests are child molesters.
You wouldn't like it if I said all Muslims are terrorist.
You wouldn't like it if I said all 50+ year olds are idiots.
You wouldn't like it if I said all Americans are fat slobs.
You wouldn't like it if I said all Germans are Nazis.
So stop saying "all millennials are entitled." Hell, even "most millennials are entitled" is incorrect. And you know, in the USA at least, maybe they should be a bit entitled. What's the debt every baby born inherits, at this point? $120,000.
What do they have to show for that? God knows they should have something.
A country perpetually at war. A police force that flips a coin on shooting or helping them. A corrupt and mostly useless government. Infrastructure that's crumbling and no politician really wants to do anything about, save for one. Growing wealth disparity that kills almost all chance of them moving beyond their starting point without extreme luck.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

I was with you at the start of your post....

I had no issue with your "You wouldn't like it if I said all" statemens.

Started to lose me a little bit in the following rant.

The one thing that I really, REALLY want to express to you is regarding your final line, "Growing wealth disparity that kills almost all chance of them moving beyond their starting point without extreme luck."

I know this is unsolicited advice, but I strongly, respectfully ask you to banish that notion from your psyche. Is there a growing wealth gap? Sure. Are things a bit more difficult for people starting out now then they were for 20 year olds in the 1950's? I sincerely believe so. Finally, are some people just lucky? I jealously say, yes, there are.

BUT....

Please don't let yourself believe that you (or anyone) can't make it. I know there is no shortage of naysayers, but believe it or not, it still holds true that if you work hard, treat people with respect, remain focused, don't get easily offended, remain consistent, make some good decisions as your career develops.... you most certainly CAN go well beyond your starting point. I promise you that is true.

Good luck to you. Go for it and don't let anyone convince you that you can't make it.

a reply to: eluryh22

It was probably a bit overkill, but the point I was trying to make is that the millennials aren't so much the 'generation of entitlement' as they are the 'generation of debt.'

"A bit more difficult" doesn't cut it. What were the statistics again... Adjusted for inflation, your average American worker makes something like half as much as they did thirty ish-years ago? Something disgusting like that.

Yes, I might be able to do that. But I'm Australian, born into a reasonably good and supportive family, had access to a good education.
Tell that to the people working 70 hour weeks living paycheck to paycheck. They are stuck. It takes a miracle to get them out of that.

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: 0hlord
a reply to: poncho1982

Yes... What problem were we talking about again?
Your problem or mine?

Honestly, this is the first time I have participated in a thread where someone was accused of being a troll for no reason. Don't take it to heart, it just shows they had nothing of value to fight against the points you were making. The irony was this was about Millennials being childish, whinny, and not taking responsibility. From what I've gotten out of this thread, it was only ok for their generations to act out in these ways. The only difference between the past and now is the internet and social media.

ETA: Oh and the fact that this country has been driven into the ground and handed toour generation. We don't like how it's ran, but aren't suppose to speak our minds. When kids do, they're labeled whiners that take no initiative and want everything handed to them. Well sorry old-timers, but its time to step aside because what you guys have been doing isn't working obviously.

So, you're a millennial, yet you claim to know exactly how it was in the past...

Ooo!!! Can I borrow your time machine? PLEASE??? C'mon, I won't change much.

You don't know what it used to be like, you have no frame of reference. NONE.

We "old-timers" however, do. And it's more different now, than you could possibly imagine.

It's pretty common knowledge the internet and social media has become a huge part of society during the Millennial generation. Am I wrong or are you trying to take my statements out of context? Hmm the irony is so thick in this thread.

Oh, please.

Give me a break.

On behalf of all older generations.... WE TRIED, YOU CRIED ABOUT IT.

a reply to: Butterfinger

Yes, that's the sort of background the "bootstrappers" tend to come from. Not all, of course, but many.

I remember someone talking about university prices, how 'kids these days are too entitled and need to pull themselves up like we did.'
Failing to mention, of course, that at the time he went to university it was completely free.

I think this truly is an example of the previous generation climbing up, then pulling up the ladder. Then burning it. Then feeding the ashes to wolves. Then firing the wolves out of a cannon into the sun.

College is a joke. You can learn whatever you need on the internet and some due diligence. Such a waste of time. Decent schools need to form some kinda union and limit enrollment.

a reply to: mwalker

Pfft, you might be able to learn what you need, but will any place that could make use of that knowledge hire you if you don't have the accompanying degree?

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

You would have to ask them but if youre an asset yes nobody cares about degrees (medical and law obvious exemptions) Most real professions require some kind of proficiency test anyway like medical boards or financial licensing.

a reply to: mwalker

Except that in many cases, you won't even be considered. In the resume goes, oops no qualifications, straight to the trash can.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Well yeah it would require a little more initiative than mindlessly submitting resumes. Go meet some people have some beers thats how the world works. And Im really not just talking trash I have a doctorate bc im in a field in which its necessary but my current position came through very unconventional means like the above.

a reply to: mwalker

The method you're talking of doesn't have that much to do with your qualifications. There's a reason the saying "It's not what you know, it's who you know." rings so true.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: mwalker

Pfft, you might be able to learn what you need, but will any place that could make use of that knowledge hire you if you don't have the accompanying degree?

Too true!

Its like credit, except with degrees you always need a cosigner(Uni/college/VoTech)

Unless you're in IT, then its certification based that requires no classes. I've spent no more than $800 total on certification test with no classes just books. I'm making $56k a year by the grace of God and my community.